Fire Matt LaFleur

[Heyjoe4]

Any individual game can go wrong due to bad breaks. When that becomes a pattern, however, then you need to question just how well prepared the team is for higher intensity playoff football. When the Packers lose, they frequently make a series of mental mistakes by both players and coaches.

It isn't even that simple because the team also gets whipped on the LOS when they underperform. The 2020 NFCCG is an example. They got physically beat as well as the horrid mental mistakes.

I would still say the common denominator in most of their losses is a series of stupid mental mistakes. It just shows how unprepared they are for big games.

It seems that they are uniquely unprepared with the game on the line. They did everything right against the Bears, until they didn't.

 

[milani]

It seems that they are uniquely unprepared with the game on the line. They did everything right against the Bear, until they didn't.

That is what separates the great coaches from the rest but also can be explained by lack of experience as well.

 

[Heyjoe4]

That is what separates the great coaches from the rest but also can be explained by lack of experience as well.

Good point my friend. Youth is certainly an advantage in today's NFL where players are bigger, stronger, faster, and on. But that kind of energy burns quickly, and young doesn't necessarily mean talented. So it pays to have a fair amount of players in their mid 20s on the team. (OK I'm 71. When did mid-20s become "veteran presence"? Never mind. Rhetorical question.)

Among his many other contributions, Parsons brough that maturity and intensity to the D, at the ripe old age of 26.

The Packers could use a few more perennial All Pro candidates. I know they are hard to come by, but Gluten did it by getting McKinney. I expect even more FA activity in the offseason. Another area is WR, where there is no clear #1, meaning a guy you can absolutely go to when the game is on the line.

And you mentioned coaching and that's fair. IMO MLF gets too caught up in play calling for the offense to keep a handle on managing the game, all teams.

 

[rmontro]

Youth is certainly an advantage in today's NFL where players are bigger, stronger, faster, and on. But that kind of energy burns quickly, and young doesn't necessarily mean talented. So it pays to have a fair amount of players in their mid 20s on the team.

To say nothing of the cap advantages.

 

[OldSchool101]

That is what separates the great coaches from the rest but also can be explained by lack of experience as well.

Being relatively young can be advantageous for things like travel or just general advantageous of players growing across Rookie contracts or players bouncing back from relatively serious injury.

However sometimes that youth advantage can be a hindrance when trying to finish off an opponent. We’ve had just a couple “Bears-like” moments this season. Be it periods of dropped passes or OL infractions or Personal Fouls at the worst possible timing.

 

[OldSchool101]

All in all MLF is easily an “well above average” Coach at minimum. I think any HC will take criticism, just ask Dan Campbell or Kevin O’Connell.
The only thing that can be argued is how much above average. With some factors like Playoff W or L in Postseason or Super Bowl appearances being presented as the ultimate barometer. Past that Wins and Losses are a key indicator. Along with Postseason appearances. After that Division Titles become a nice additive.

While Matt has not led the Packers to a SB. He has led us to 6 of 7 possible playoff appearances. That including using 2 separate QB’s to get there. I wonder what % of Coaches in the NFL can even say that in their first 7 seasons they qualified for Postseason at minimum 6 times?

As far as Playoffs he’s 3-5 in postseason. Yet the way you play is next to importance to the W or L. Only the 49ers and Eagles Won by more than 1 score. Meaning we were well within reach of Winning in all but 2 games. The other losses? 3pts, 3pts, 5pts.
GB lost to who? a pretty solid contingency of talent.
2024 Super Bowl Champions Eagles
2023 Super Bowl Runner Up 49ers
2021 Conference Runner up 49ers
2020 Super Bowl Champion Bucs
2019 Super Bowl Runner up 49ers

In 4 of 5 losses it took a SB worthy team to beat the MLF led Packers
So it’s not like he’s some chump HC. Matt is highly respected and nobody outside of GB would be thinking of “firing” him imo.

 

[OldSchool101]

As far as Matt’s 2025 season and now 6th Postseason appearance. With Matt and Hafley, GB has a formidable 1-2 Coaching punch. Now speculation at Rich’s’ Teams is certainly reasonable argument. Yet even then from my research we’re rounding out to be a Top ~18-22 area ranked Teams unit, not like some years past that I REALLY almost despised when ST took the field. I actually don’t have any serious complaints or praises either direction at more than maybe wanting stability at PR.

GB through some earlier season success has given themselves a legitimate opportunity to compete in the Playoffs. We lucked out in allowing our players to get 1 or 2 weeks of additional rest as raising our seeding doesn’t do much but maybe bring Chicago to Green Bay. Yet that would NOT have been possible without 9.5 Wins logged with games to spare. It’s almost like we get the partial benefit of resting key starters if desired. Which mostly only happens to a #1 Seed and sometimes not that!

How Matt plays this out is paramount to our finish this postseason. It’s actually in a weird way a blessing.
It’s unnatural to have an option to rest players without major consequences. In some ways you could say it’s almost advantageous. We’re playoff locked and playing some seeding probability from the outside to gain advantage but without the risk.

Matt can move with prudence. We’re in no hurry to get any key players injured. Matter of fact we have an opportunity to get net + on health if we play our cards correctly.

 

[Heyjoe4]

To say nothing of the cap advantages.

Exactly - a good GM can balance the high cap hits of veteran impact players by drafting well every year. "Drafting well" is subjective - but I believe that Gluten has largely drafted well, especially in later rounds - guys like Doubs, Walker, E. Williams - and he's done well with UDFAs but none come to mind right now. Maybe Stackhouse? He's getting an opportunity with Wyatt out.

 

[ExpatPacker]

In 4 of 5 losses it took a SB worthy team to beat the MLF led Packers
So it’s not like he’s some chump HC. Matt is highly respected and nobody outside of GB would be thinking of “firing” him imo.

Other teams would love for the Packers to fire LaFleur. Another team would scoop him up in a flash.

 

[Sanguine camper]

It looks like most of Stackhouse's plays have gone to other people since Wyatt went down. He's been in the doghouse to the extent that he's even been a healthy scratch from the lineup. That can change from game to game but if he was ascending, I don't think most of his limited reps would be parceled out to other guys.

Exactly - a good GM can balance the high cap hits of veteran impact players by drafting well every year. "Drafting well" is subjective - but I believe that Gluten has largely drafted well, especially in later rounds - guys like Doubs, Walker, E. Williams - and he's done well with UDFAs but none come to mind right now. Maybe Stackhouse? He's getting an opportunity with Wyatt out.

 

[gopkrs]

The only reason I could possibly think of why Stackhouse is not playing if healthy is that he isn't very good.

 

[Snoops]

Other teams would love for the Packers to fire LaFleur. Another team would scoop him up in a flash.

Absolutely careful what you wish for he would be hired immediately if fired by Green Bay. Buttttttt is it time to move on from him….. I think he suffers from not having an elite qb they were well on their way before injuries to Kraft and parson. Plus he schemes people butt nake d he is on the conservative side through his time as a coach he does well with what they have. I just think love isn’t elite imo Love is a slightly above average qb

 

[OldSchool101]

Absolutely careful what you wish for he would be hired immediately if fired by Green Bay. Buttttttt is it time to move on from him….. I think he suffers from not having an elite qb they were well on their way before injuries to Kraft and parson. Plus he schemes people butt nake d he is on the conservative side through his time as a coach he does well with what they have. I just think love isn’t elite imo Love is a slightly above average qb

While I agree Love isn’t Elite, we have to define “Elite” otherwise it’s a moving target.
For myself anyway, any Elite label would come with separating yourself at the highest level. In my estimation there are between 2-4 Elite QB’s in any given season. The rest are maybe wonderful, but not Elite. Also Elite play changes from season to season. An Elite QB in 2020 might not be Elite in the 2022 season. So it’s really a moving target also and that makes it an easy argument to negate all but 2-3 QB’s leaguewide. Is Lamar Elite? Ok ok. then how many Rings does he have?? I do recall at 11yrs old he won a SB in a Florida football league. Does that count?!

So I agree that Jordan is not Elite. However many QB’s who weren’t top 2-3 rated “Elite” QB’s have had high levels of success or even Won Superbowls. Jake Delhomme everyone NEVER posted a 30 TD season and NEVER touched 4,000 yards passing. Was Jake better than Jordan?

Elite imo is overrated because with rare exception, it’s a year to year moving target. Is Nick Foles Elite? Meaning Does he magically appear in your mind as an Elite QB? Heck is Jalen Hurts considered Elite? Nope. Joe Flacco, Big Ben, Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer? I doubt anyone would list them as Elite, especially if they hadn’t Won a SB. Jordan Love is as good on a talent scale as any of those guys imo. Plenty good to Win a SB.

I’d also assert that there are MANY QB Who have had Elite seasons that didn’t win the SB that year. So while Elite is preferred, if we are waiting for ongoing Elite QB play to Win a SB first jump in line because it’s out the door long and we’ve all been waiting for decades.. so don’t Butt in line! Secondly if anyone truly believes if you get Elite play it’s an automatic SB win imo you’ll be severely discouraged. It takes all 3 phases to Win.

As far as QB impact. Jordan Love is plenty good enough to Win when he’s on his game and he’s healthy. We’ve all seen him throw some bonehead INT. Yet he’s actually improved in his 3rd season. Go look at his stat line it’s true. We’ve also seen him Win THIS season with 8 combined 4Q finishes and GWInning Drives. Also Love had posted some nice 4 game stretches and that’s what Postseason requires. Matt is well equipped and he has every opportunity to out coach a slightly better team. We are not the best remaining.. but we are not far off when we execute at our ceiling.

 

[rmontro]

I’d also assert that there are MANY QB Who have had Elite seasons that didn’t win the SB that year.

I think the question is more like how many QBs who were not elite have won the Super Bowl?

 

[Pkrjones]

Exactly - a good GM can balance the high cap hits of veteran impact players by drafting well every year. "Drafting well" is subjective - but I believe that Gluten has largely drafted well, especially in later rounds - guys like Doubs, Walker, E. Williams - and he's done well with UDFAs but none come to mind right now. Maybe Stackhouse? He's getting an opportunity with Wyatt out.

Actually, Stackhouse & Bohanna were healthy scratches last week. The new guy, Riley, saw action.

 

[OldSchool101]

I think the question is more like how many QBs who were not elite have won the Super Bowl?

Good Question!

In their respective SB seasons I’d say it’s a large number of QB’s were recipients of Teams who performed in all 3 phases.

I could even argue that in SB seasons if you looked across stats MANY weren’t the best QB in the league (or even on the field) as we measure Elite QB play.

Let’s go to most recent. I don’t have to go far.

Is Jalen Hurts a definitive Top 2-4 QB (Elite) nearly every season?

Is Jalen Hurts better than Pat Mahommes? Then be a Jalen Hurts!!!! (sorry Pat you know I love you Bro)

Neither Jordan Love or Jalen Hurts are Elite imo

Ranking all 59 starting quarterbacks from the 2024 NFL season: Lamar Jackson or Josh Allen at No. 1?

 

[OldSchool101]

If we’re waiting on the next Tom Brady or Pat Mahomes to Win a SB as a starting Packer QB? (these guys are regular Elite) we are in for a very long, long wait, if ever.

I’d argue Love didn’t need to play Elite to beat Philly. What hurt the Packers last year was a second year Starter that was careless with the Football. Eliminate 1-2 INT and it’s game on at Philly. They can keep the gift fumble on play #1

25 TD/ 14 INT (2nd Starting season)

2025 (3rd Starting season) Jordan has
A better record 9-5-1
A better comp %
A better TD/INT ratio (1.4% vs 2.6%)
A better Passer rating

23 TD/ 6 INT

With time to spare. I’d argue while it’s NOT league leading or even Elite, the Bold has been largely mitigated. plenty good enough QB to Win a SB, especially if he gets on a semi-good streak. I’d even go as far to argue on Jordan’s behalf that we as fans are literally watching him grow up. Nothing changed but him maturing into a better QB, not PERFECT! but he’s a darn good QB.

I’m already excited to see what GB can do in 2026, with Kraft and Parsons and maybe moving on from a player or three and getting a couple upgrades. Really really praying We can convince Hafley to stay. Matter of fact I might send him Starbucks tomorrow. Anyone know where Haf lives?

 

[Half Empty]

I think the question is more like how many QBs who were not elite have won the Super Bowl?

"Eye of the beholder", of course, but I count 8-9, a bunch of those in the late 80s/early 90s.

 

[milani]

"Eye of the beholder", of course, but I count 8-9, a bunch of those in the late 80s/early 90s.

Trent Dilfer of the Ravens and Brad Johnson of the Bucs for sure.

"Eye of the beholder", of course, but I count 8-9, a bunch of those in the late 80s/early 90s.

 

[Half Empty]

In addition, for consideration (given that the bar was set at 'not elite'):

Foles
Flacco
Hostetler
Eli Manning (2 SB MVPs, but still...)
McMahon
Rypien
Simms
Williams
Wilson

 

[milani]

In addition, for consideration (given that the bar was set at 'not elite'):

Foles
Flacco
Hostetler
Eli Manning (2 SB MVPs, but still...)
McMahon
Rypien
Simms
Williams
Wilson

If you are a Packer fan you can never put Eli in the not that great category. His 2 SBs were after knocking the Packers out in each of those seasons.

 

[AGreen2AJones]

Absolutely embarrassing anyone that supports MLF is not a Packers fan

 

[Magooch]

I don’t know how you can commit to a long term extension at this point

 

[Thirteen Below]

I think the question is more like how many QBs who were not elite have won the Super Bowl?

Jeff Hostetler, Jim Plunkett, Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Joe Flacco... probably Doug Williams... Jim McMahon... Nick Foles... I think it's happened more times than we realized.

 

[AKCheese]

QB play is not what is holding Green Bay back nor will it in the future. It’s just where amatuer (not an insult - we here are all amatuers) minds go.