Fire Matt LaFleur

[pacmaniac]

The post Rodgers post season era? All 2 years of it? Last years loss waz to the eventual Super Bowl Champion who totally DOMINATED the Chiefs. Im not a huge MLF fan but trying to evaluate based on this is dumb imo

We could also evaluate him on failing to live up to the #1 seed twice- losing at home to TB in 2021 and not even making it to the NFCC in 2022.

 

[rmontro]

I agree, but unfortunately that's exactly what I mean when I point to the kind of general malaise and "same old problems" that have consistently seemed to plague us in the "LaFleur Era". Just seems like far, far too often we lose focus at exactly the most inopportune moment(s) and often struggle to recover.

This team just seems to frequently come across as unprepared in some way or the other. And one of the biggest cons against MLF is his holding on to Bisaccia so long. How many games have special teams cost us? Okay, it's true there was no coach who called for Doubs to fumble the ball. But maybe the hands team should know to keep the eye on the ball first and foremost, and to handle the ball first and foremost, no need to advance it there.

We could also evaluate him on failing to live up to the #1 seed twice- losing at home to TB in 2021 and not even making it to the NFCC in 2022.

That really sits in my craw, that TB game being especially egregious.

 

[Magooch]

This team just seems to frequently come across as unprepared in some way or the other. And one of the biggest cons against MLF is his holding on to Bisaccia so long. How many games have special teams cost us? Okay, it's true there was no coach who called for Doubs to fumble the ball. But maybe the hands team should know to keep the eye on the ball first and foremost, and to handle the ball first and foremost, no need to advance it there.

Yeah, it's a tough call. I get that Bisaccia isn't the one who bobbled the kick...but at the same time at this point I'm not sure he really deserves the benefit of the doubt. In the same way... it wasn't Joe Barry who was out there missing tackles or assignments or blowing coverages, but ultimately he's still responsible for the on-field product. If we're not going to hold our couches accountable for the things the players under their charge are doing, why even bother having coaches in the first place?

And it'd be one thing if we'd had generally good special teams all year long and just had a guy come up short in an extremely high-pressure moment. Players are human, it happens. But when special teams is repeatedly a problem week-in and week-out I have to think it goes deeper than just simple player error.

By extension then my general feeling is that if Bisaccia should be held to account for his units' players...then LaFleur should similarly be held accountable for the coaching staff beneath him. When Matt gives Joe Barry chance after chance after chance, he's saying "I am satisfied with my defense's performances". When Matt hears all season long that Drayton is a liability on ST and doesn't do anything about it until special teams are a huge factor in playoff elimination, he's saying "You have to be directly responsible for a loss in the biggest game of the year before I will take action". When Matt continues with Bisaccia AND promotes him to an assistant head coach role, he's saying "Your performances have been so outstanding that you deserve to be rewarded for them". Once again, I think Matt does a lot of good things, but I can't get on board with any of that. I said it months ago - the company he keeps around him and his unwillingness to make hard decisions regarding his colleagues are an anchor that will prevent him from reaching the next level as a coach.

 

[Packers4ever]

Okay, here you have it... Looking at the "Post-Rodgers Era". This is from 2023 onwards, and limited only to coaches who have been with their current team since at least 2023 (i.e. no first/second year coaches).

Regular Season Win Percentage
T1. Sean McDermott 0.714 (35-14)
T1. Dan Campbell 0.714 (35-14)
T1. Nick Sirianni 0.714 (35-14)
2. Andy Reid 0.653 (32-17)
3. John Harbaugh 0.646 (31-17)
4. Sean McVay 0.633 (31-18)
T5. Sean Payton 0.612 (30-19)
T5. DeMeco Ryans 0.612 (30-19)
6. Matt LaFleur 0.602 (29-19-1)
T7. Kyle Shanahan 0.592 (29-20)
T7. Mike Tomlin 0.592 (29-20)
8. Kevin O'Connell 0.571 (28-21)
9. Todd Bowles 0.531 (26-23)
T10. Shane Steichen 0.510 (25-24)
T10. Mike McDaniel 0.510 (25-24)
11. Zac Taylor 0.469 (23-26)
12. Kevin Stefanski 0.347 (17-32)
13. Jonathan Gannon 0.306 (15-34)

Postseason Win Percentage
1. Andy Reid 0.857
2. Nick Sirianni 0.800
3. Kyle Shanahan 0.667
4. Sean McDermott 0.600
T5. Dan Campbell 0.500
T5. John Harbaugh 0.500
T5. DeMeco Ryans 0.500
T6. Sean McVay 0.333
T6. Matt LaFleur 0.333
T6. Todd Bowles 0.333
T7. Jonathan Gannon, Zac Taylor, Kevin Stefanski, Sean Payton, Shane Steichen, Mike McDaniel, Kevin O'Connell, Mike Tomlin 0.000

Total Postseason Wins
1. Andy Reid 6
2. Nick Sirianni 4
3. Sean McDermott 3
T4. Kyle Shanahan 2
T4. John Harbaugh 2
T4. Dan Campbell 2
T4. DeMeco Ryans 2
T5. Matt LaFleur 1
T5. Sean McVay 1
T5. Todd Bowles 1
T6 Jonathan Gannon, Zac Taylor, Kevin Stefanski, Sean Payton, Shane Steichen, Mike McDaniel, Mike Tomlin, Kevin O'Connell

After seen this comparison, clearly shows MLF is not that great like people think , in big games most of these coaches out coach MLF in Playoffs
Like I said before, MLF may be a nice guy but not good enough of a HC to win it all, Any other team would be lucky to have MLF as an OC but that is it
He would be a good OC with the Packers though after been a HC he would never accept the job, but all coaches have limits and I think MLF been a HC, is too much for him to succeed

 

[AKCheese]

So how many years without winning a Super Bowl do we give the next guy? (asking for a friend).

 

[AKCheese]

That becomes a Jerry Jones knee jerker. Works for Dallas. Not everywhere else.

Hasn’t worked too well for Dallas actually

 

[AKCheese]

The NFCCG at home against Tampa, if he never gets to the big one, will always be the one that got away for MLF. That was it. We should’ve had that one. Hurts.

Never in my life have I ever figured out how, in a situation where all we needed to do was funnel all the action to the interior of the field of play and protect the end zone and sidelines, did we end up in Cover 1 with Kevin King alone on an island. Inexplicable.

Rodgers disappeared in the 4th quarter (as he tended to do in playoff games at the end of his tenure in GB)

 

[adambr2]

Hasn’t worked too well for Dallas actually

To be fair, I think Jerry has had more patience than he used to. MM got quite a bit more leash than I expected.

 

[rmontro]

To be fair, I think Jerry has had more patience than he used to. MM got quite a bit more leash than I expected.

I was thinking if we parted ways with MLF, Dallas would probably sign him.

 

[milani]

Hasn’t worked too well for Dallas actually

Now do not tell Jerry that. He can at least claim that Kenny Clark will be on the field for the last 2 games.

 

[Magooch]

So how many years without winning a Super Bowl do we give the next guy? (asking for a friend).

I guess that depends. I’d have to get a better idea of the context around the league… How many years do most other teams without winning a Super Bowl do they give their coaches? How many years without appearing in one?

 

[Sanguine camper]

So how many years without winning a Super Bowl do we give the next guy? (asking for a friend).

If the next guy is a disaster, you can him after 3 seasons. Otherwise, you give him 5 or 6 seasons. That's a fair enough length of time. In no way do you want to keep wasting seasons with someone who doesn't seem to learn from their mistakes and show improvement.

 

[milani]

I guess that depends. I’d have to get a better idea of the context around the league… How many years do most other teams without winning a Super Bowl do they give their coaches? How many years without appearing in one?

13

 

[Half Empty]

I guess that depends. I’d have to get a better idea of the context around the league… How many years do most other teams without winning a Super Bowl do they give their coaches? How many years without appearing in one?

I don't know. What's the answer?

 

[tynimiller]

I still stand behind I’m giving the Love/MLF window 5 to 6 years. When MLF got us from Rodgers to Love transition and kept us as one of the league’s contenders I restart the time IMO

 

[adambr2]

To me the answer is less timeline dictated and more predicated among questions that we may not know the answer to:

Does MLF have the respect of his players? Are they able to learn from him and willing to play maximum effort football for him?

If a HC loses the team (which I think may have happened with MM), there is often no going back and you need a change. If the above are still true, I think that’s probably the most important thing.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Just seems like far, far too often we lose focus at exactly the most inopportune moment(s) and often struggle to recover.

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[tynimiller]

To me the answer is less timeline dictated and more predicated among questions that we may not know the answer to:

Does MLF have the respect of his players? Are they able to learn from him and willing to play maximum effort football for him?

If a HC loses the team (which I think may have happened with MM), there is often no going back and you need a change. If the above are still true, I think that’s probably the most important thing.

In that case if Policy holds to the same thought process MLF is safe.

 

[milani]

In that case if Policy holds to the same thought process MLF is safe.

You will find that traditionally in GB there is a lot more patience and tolerance than you see with other teams. And we know who they are. A team hires a new coach. It goes 0-1. Then they are calling for his head.

 

[tynimiller]

You will find that traditionally in GB there is a lot more patience and tolerance than you see with other teams. And we know who they are. A team hires a new coach. It goes 0-1. Then they are calling for his head.

Oh I concur and agree

 

[OldSchool101]

The NFCCG at home against Tampa, if he never gets to the big one, will always be the one that got away for MLF. That was it. We should’ve had that one. Hurts.

Never in my life have I ever figured out how, in a situation where all we needed to do was funnel all the action to the interior of the field of play and protect the end zone and sidelines, did we end up in Cover 1 with Kevin King alone on an island. Inexplicable.

I still think Tampa outplayed us. They just felt better and that was a home game. Tampa was a #3 ranked offense the prior year without Brady. They just needed to get stability as Jameis had thrown a league leading 30 INT the previous year. Tampa fixed their D and hit gold with their LB wrecking crew. GB was similar on Offense, but Tampa was playing like a top 5 Defense.

The ones I think that got away were 2021 where we had a meltdown when the game was firmly in hand. Missed FG, blocked Punt for a TD to name a few.
Also 2023 we led by 10 points in the 4th Quarter and just crumbled similar to last week.
Even last year, fumbling the opening play? Really? We likely would’ve led in Q4 against a powerhouse inside their stadium.

I can’t hardly blame Matt for a fumbled Onside last week or multiple missed FG’s in postseason or a fumbled opening kickoff etc. I thought last year we could’ve caused some serious trouble had we upset Philly at Philly. They steamrolled several teams but had they not scored opening kickoff they put up 15 points against our Defense. Again At home

 

[Heyjoe4]

I mean, like our chances or not, we are in superbowl contention. It's pretty easy to say we won't win it. Those are the odds. But we are about to get into the playoffs and seem preoccupied with firing the head coach. The timing is bizarre imho

Well said gopkrs. Gotta get priorities in order and they are 1) get in the playoffs and 2) beat the Bears in round 1. Beyond that, I don't know, but you're right in calling them a SB contender. Just being able to say this after the injuries is testament enough to Gluten's team building and MLF's coaching.

At this point, I'd be pretty happy with a first round win over the Bears. That rivalry got even more intense with Johnson's pre-season comments about beating MLF.

I'd be very happy to see that smug sob get whacked into the offseason at home by the Packers.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I also think it makes sense to evaluate the entire record. 3 playoff wins so far isn't impressive IMO given that he started with such a talented team in 2019.

Gute has blown his share of high draft picks but has restocked talented players to the roster by all avenues including free agency trades and finding gems on other team's practice squads since MLF was hired.

In evaluating MLF, a key question is have the Packers played beneath their talent level? If not, then the playoff debacles have to be chalked up to insufficient talent and Gute is the problem. I tend to think that Gute deserves some criticism but is generally a pretty good GM.

These are fair comments SC. Between Gluten and MLF, I'd say MLF's performance has been the most disappointing. And even at that, it's impossible for me to be "disappointed" in what MLF has done since the days of Rodgers and MM. Quite the opposite.

The talk of not extending either guy is misplaced and premature. Look at what happened to the Vikings and Lions in one season. The Packers have fared better than both, and that would have been a hard bet to find back in September.

As fans, we've enjoyed very good football for the majority of the last 30 years. Not many fan bases can say that.

 

[Heyjoe4]

The NFCCG at home against Tampa, if he never gets to the big one, will always be the one that got away for MLF. That was it. We should’ve had that one. Hurts.

Never in my life have I ever figured out how, in a situation where all we needed to do was funnel all the action to the interior of the field of play and protect the end zone and sidelines, did we end up in Cover 1 with Kevin King alone on an island. Inexplicable.

Yeah that loss to TB was hard, and made harder by the defensive holding call on King on 3rd and long in Q4. That pass was going to be incomplete anyway. But who can say what wouold have happened if TB was forced to punt? Just impossible to know.

The loss to the Niners at Lambeau really hurt. The only TD by SF was on a STs blocked punt. The Packers D was lights-out good. Not to pin it all on him, but Rodgers didn't produce in the playoffs as well as Favre.

 

[Sanguine camper]

Any individual game can go wrong due to bad breaks. When that becomes a pattern, however, then you need to question just how well prepared the team is for higher intensity playoff football. When the Packers lose, they frequently make a series of mental mistakes by both players and coaches.

It isn't even that simple because the team also gets whipped on the LOS when they underperform. The 2020 NFCCG is an example. They got physically beat as well as the horrid mental mistakes.

I would still say the common denominator in most of their losses is a series of stupid mental mistakes. It just shows how unprepared they are for big games.