Fire Matt LaFleur

[milani]

I would make a thread on this but I still don't have access!! How many posts do I need?

https://x.com/BillHuberNFL/status/2022400447676571906?s=20

I don't necessarily agree with all of these, but this is quite a list.

Losing Collins set us back a ton. Finley too, I think he and Rodgers would have gotten to a dominant level together.

I'll go to my deathbed saying we woulda won in 2020 ( and maybe 2021) with David Bahktiari. How sad.

It doesn't even talk about all the ST blunders.

If we had a healthy Kraft, Parsons and Wyatt, I would have loved our chances this past year.

Takes a lot of things to go right winning a SB. A lot of luck.

3 tremendous player losses. Our D was vulnerable in 2011. But losing Nick Collins destroyed any chance we had to make that one play even with Woodson back there.
Rodgers said Finley was the best TE in football at the time. I agree. I know what a difference he would have made in 2013 even when Rodgers went down. I was there when the Browns decided to smash his head on the ground.
And Bahk. Well, just look how we talked about O Line problems the last few seasons.

 

[CarryTheG14]

3 tremendous player losses. Our D was vulnerable in 2011. But losing Nick Collins destroyed any chance we had to make that one play even with Woodson back there.
Rodgers said Finley was the best TE in football at the time. I agree. I know what a difference he would have made in 2013 even when Rodgers went down. I was there when the Browns decided to smash his head on the ground.
And Bahk. Well, just look how we talked about O Line problems the last few seasons.

Bahk hurts so much, man. He had 5 All-Pros in his first 8 years! And he's only 34 now!

 

[milani]

Bahk hurts so much, man. He had 5 All-Pros in his first 8 years! And he's only 34 now!

One devastating injury can destroy a career in no time. The great Gale Sayers was a rookie in 1965. After 1970 he was thankful just to be able to walk.

 

[Firethorn1001]

I wonder how much Joe Philbin's son passing away the week of the Giant's playoff game in 2012 impacted the game from an emotion standpoint.

 

[Heyjoe4]

3 tremendous player losses. Our D was vulnerable in 2011. But losing Nick Collins destroyed any chance we had to make that one play even with Woodson back there.
Rodgers said Finley was the best TE in football at the time. I agree. I know what a difference he would have made in 2013 even when Rodgers went down. I was there when the Browns decided to smash his head on the ground.
And Bahk. Well, just look how we talked about O Line problems the last few seasons.

Good summary M. One thing I noticed watching some of the SB, it didn’t seem as if the hags or pats were hurt significantly by injuries. I could be wrong about this.


And while injuries don’t generate a lot of sympathy around the league, the Packers lost, arguably, their most impactful player on offense in Kraft. And they certainly lost the best player on the team in Parsons.

And the season-ending injuries to Kraft and Parsons were under very rare circumstances. So it goes in pro sports. Well ideally they both return early in the 2026 season.

Just me - I never realized what a player Wyatt is until he went down. He’s kept a low profile, but is certainly one of the better DTs in the NFL.

There is a lot to like about the Packers. Gluten needs to work some offseason magic at CB, OL, and DT - and I believe he will.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Bahk hurts so much, man. He had 5 All-Pros in his first 8 years! And he's only 34 now!

You’re right Carry. Bakh was in his prime when he had that freak ACL tear, and all the complications that followed. It’s a shame, for Bakh, the team and the fans.

 

[Heyjoe4]

The Bills are one of the top 5 most successful teams in the last decade. The Packers with Matt really have not had the same level of success as Buffalo. I’m not sure what Buffalo is thinking other than they might feel like Josh Allen should be wearing a Ring by now and his career is fading into the back 9, so more of the same and expecting a similar result. Another similar team during MLF tenure is Cincinnati. They are our AFC equivalent.


Green Bay has better long term success than both Buffalo and Cincinatti though. Poor Buffalo with Jim Kelly. He played in 4 Super Bowls but never Won.

What happened to Kelly is unimaginable. It’s happening to Allen.

Not sure whacking McDermott will change things. Seems like the Bills’ woes were caused by the GM, not the HC.

So it is - in this case, the change is probably good.

I just read that with the exception of the receivers’ coach addition, and the lost coaches, MLF is sticking with the current cast. I don’t much care for that. At a minimum, Stevanich should have been whacked and a true assistant for MLF hired.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Not The Championship game

Those were brutal losses in games that probably should have been Ws. Favre threw a disastrous pic against the Giants, and the Packers wasted an incredible performance by the D in losing to the 49ers.

I probably should have put in my post that I don't think that Matt is dogsh*t bad as a HC and play caller, but the things I was pointing out are things he needs to improve upon. If he doesn't, I just don't see him ever coaching a team that wins a Super Bowl.

I agree with the things you listed as well as this response.

MLF works as if he is accountable to no one. With the exception of coaches who have left, and the addition of a receiver coach, the same coaches are coming back.

Maybe someone on here can tell me what OC Stevanich does.

I don’t think MLF will ever give play calling to a real OC. But he badly needs an assistant to help him with all the things you noted as problems.

Very disappointed that MLF doesn’t see the need for new ideas on offense, and how he manages games.

 

[gopkrs]

Maybe someone on here can tell me what OC Stevanich does.

I think it's easier to figure out what a D coordinator does. I guess the O coord figures out a general game plan. But what does he do actually hands on? I wish he would spend some of his time helping out just the O line. It seems like they need help in basics.

 

[OldSchool101]

I would make a thread on this but I still don't have access!! How many posts do I need?

https://x.com/BillHuberNFL/status/2022400447676571906?s=20

I don't necessarily agree with all of these, but this is quite a list.

Losing Collins set us back a ton. Finley too, I think he and Rodgers would have gotten to a dominant level together.

I'll go to my deathbed saying we woulda won in 2020 ( and maybe 2021) with David Bahktiari. How sad.

It doesn't even talk about all the ST blunders.

If we had a healthy Kraft, Parsons and Wyatt, I would have loved our chances this past year.

Takes a lot of things to go right winning a SB. A lot of luck.

I agree. We’re not done yet.

Reports saying Micah will at most only miss September 2026 ball. 4-6 weeks is probably the current projection area. Anything sooner is a blessing.

I also agree on the Bakhtiari thought. I see Micah like that. I think had he not exited with an ACL? we at minimum play in a Divisional game.

We can recontract all but maybe 2 or 3 key players from 2025(not talking about Teams level depth or those that sat out the bulk off season) Yet we have a potential dozen players either from this draft OR returning from PUP or IR, plus I’d throw in including 1+ outside FA upgrade. See that’s the only silver lining is we were one of the more injured teams up there with Cardinals, SF49ers etc. while Seattle was probably the most healthy team going into postseason. The chances of an exact repeat of that are slim at best.

 

[OldSchool101]

Matt will have the core group of players at his disposal.
If I were a guessing man and I am even at risk of being hyper criticized!

I see Wyatt or Kraft in a similar scenario. Maybe maybe a designation holding him for a month at most. Yet either have a coin flips chance at suiting up Week 1 also.

Parsons is projecting ahead of plans. That said he’s a large investment so I could see them just going safe on Pup Or IR to start and then there ramp him for a couple weeks.

Looking outside these obvious high end Starter types that the media will focus on…The Packers have a potential 4-5 players coming back off injury from 2025 that could fight for starter or primary depth roles (eventual starter). They are the unproven, under-the-radar types that get largely forgotten about. Until they aren’t
Glover, Lloyd, Williams, Oliver immediately come to mind. Green Bay currently has 23 players returning from draft classes 2023-2025 alone. Those are generally the players you start to see “pop”. Although admittedly we only had a couple in 2025 (Kraft being obvious). We will see a plethora of Sophomore to Seniors Rookie contract getting more involved. That’s the advantage of drafting 30+ players in those drafts. The residual resulting Davante and Rodgers bringing quality picks.
You lose some to other teams etc but the sheer numbers are advantageous.

The “youngest” isn’t the true advantage. It is more projecting. Some of that projecting will become an increasingly involved reality in 2026. Even when players don’t play a snap during “regular season” OR maybe just participate in Camp? It’s still a critical piece of maturing into an involved Starter. While it’s our Team MO to hold Rookies back with rare exception, Once they reach Sophomore or Junior status? GB puts those same players on the fast track to displaying their draft value. Green Bay has been the template for holding Rookies back. In ways they remind me of Collegiate programs like the Iowa Hawkeyes. It’s frustrating especially as a fan to see Golden held back etc. Yet It’s partly how the team stays so relevant on a continuum. It’s called “wearing well”

 

[OldSchool101]

Matt will need to prepare better for 4th Quarter imo.

Whether that be in Half time adjustments (that are pre-planned and designed purposely to throw off our opponent making adjustments) or player utilization being altered or his game plan being more assertive or conditioning aspects or all of the above plus others… The focus MUST be to change the status quo.

We cannot repeat playing “not to lose” anymore. It hasn’t worked and won’t work with the teams in our Division. That’s abundantly clear. Until we are under 2-minutes and at least 2 of the opponents timeouts are expended?
An area we can kneel up by 9+ points and run the clock under <30 seconds in regulation?
We need to play like we’re losing by 7 points imo.

Many of Our opponents are flat out better at managing the gameclock. We cannot continue making the glaring misdiagnosis or underestimate our opponent for even one second.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I think it's easier to figure out what a D coordinator does. I guess the O coord figures out a general game plan. But what does he do actually hands on? I wish he would spend some of his time helping out just the O line. It seems like they need help in basics.

Agreed. Although I read that Hafley, now HC for Miami, will be calling the plays on defense. So why does he need a DC?

I don't see the value add from Stevanich. I think you're right and he would better serve the team by focusing on the OL.

That still leaves open who helps MLF with the offensive game plan and play calling and overall game and clock management. From what I've seen it's no one. Bisaccia is listed, I think, as assistant HC. That's laughable.

And that's why I'm disappointed there have been so few changes in the offensive coaching staff. MLF is a very good play caller. But even geniuses need help now and then.

If nothing changes, well nothing changes. That means the team will continue to struggle on offense with in-game adjustments, clock management, and a lack of new ideas.

 

[CarryTheG14]

Matt will have the core group of players at his disposal.
If I were a guessing man and I am even at risk of being hyper criticized!

I see Wyatt or Kraft in a similar scenario. Maybe maybe a designation holding him for a month at most. Yet either have a coin flips chance at suiting up Week 1 also.

Parsons is projecting ahead of plans. That said he’s a large investment so I could see them just going safe on Pup Or IR to start and then there ramp him for a couple weeks.

Looking outside these obvious high end Starter types that the media will focus on…The Packers have a potential 4-5 players coming back off injury from 2025 that could fight for starter or primary depth roles (eventual starter). They are the unproven, under-the-radar types that get largely forgotten about. Until they aren’t
Glover, Lloyd, Williams, Oliver immediately come to mind. Green Bay currently has 23 players returning from draft classes 2023-2025 alone. Those are generally the players you start to see “pop”. Although admittedly we only had a couple in 2025 (Kraft being obvious). We will see a plethora of Sophomore to Seniors Rookie contract getting more involved. That’s the advantage of drafting 30+ players in those drafts. The residual resulting Davante and Rodgers bringing quality picks.
You lose some to other teams etc but the sheer numbers are advantageous.

The “youngest” isn’t the true advantage. It is more projecting. Some of that projecting will become an increasingly involved reality in 2026. Even when players don’t play a snap during “regular season” OR maybe just participate in Camp? It’s still a critical piece of maturing into an involved Starter. While it’s our Team MO to hold Rookies back with rare exception, Once they reach Sophomore or Junior status? GB puts those same players on the fast track to displaying their draft value. Green Bay has been the template for holding Rookies back. In ways they remind me of Collegiate programs like the Iowa Hawkeyes. It’s frustrating especially as a fan to see Golden held back etc. Yet It’s partly how the team stays so relevant on a continuum. It’s called “wearing well”

Great post.

Between that and talking about preparing for the 4th quarter, The Packers have to find a better mix of being cautious and aggressive.

I don't want to Matt to be like Dan Campbell or Ben Johnson, but he needs to put teams away. He can't continue to keep teams hanging around.


The guys on the rookie contracts. In some cases it's smart to allow the guys to get their feet wet, and not give them significant snaps.

Other times, like Matthew Golden, he should've given him more snaps to begin with so at the end of the year he's got the reps. 44 targets for him was egregious ( note: I did take him over 700 yards so I still have sour grapes lol).

 

[Heyjoe4]

Matt will need to prepare better for 4th Quarter imo.

Whether that be in Half time adjustments (that are pre-planned and designed purposely to throw off our opponent making adjustments) or player utilization being altered or his game plan being more assertive or conditioning aspects or all of the above plus others… The focus MUST be to change the status quo.

We cannot repeat playing “not to lose” anymore. It hasn’t worked and won’t work with the teams in our Division. That’s abundantly clear. Until we are under 2-minutes and at least 2 of the opponents timeouts are expended?
An area we can kneel up by 9+ points and run the clock under <30 seconds in regulation?
We need to play like we’re losing by 7 points imo.

Many of Our opponents are flat out better at managing the gameclock. We cannot continue making the glaring misdiagnosis or underestimate our opponent for even one second.

I don't think MLF is anywhere near as bad as "play not to lose" as is MM. Then again, with a solid lead, MLF fails to find ways to hold and increase the lead in the 2H, esp Q4. He has gone counter to "play not to lose" with low percentage "kill shots" that usually just kill drives.

The last exapmple was at Soldier Field. The team had a 3-possession lead at half time. MLF didn't seem to consider what adjustment the Bears would make on defense (blitzing) and was unable to counter.

That should change. But the FO seems content running things back with MLF solely at the helm of the offense. Disappointing. Even Gluten has acknowledged the team has to find ways to finish games. How?

 

[milani]

I don't think MLF is anywhere near as bad as "play not to lose" as is MM. Then again, with a solid lead, MLF fails to find ways to hold and increase the lead in the 2H, esp Q4. He has gone counter to "play not to lose" with low percentage "kill shots" that usually just kill drives.

The last exapmple was at Soldier Field. The team had a 3-possession lead at half time. MLF didn't seem to consider what adjustment the Bears would make on defense (blitzing) and was unable to counter.

That should change. But the FO seems content running things back with MLF solely at the helm of the offense. Disappointing. Even Gluten has acknowledged the team has to find ways to finish games. How?

I hope next season we learn a little from watching McVae, Stafford, Nacua, and the Rams. Even their kicker came through in January.

 

[OldSchool101]

I don't want to Matt to be like Dan Campbell or Ben Johnson, but he needs to put teams away. He can't continue to keep teams hanging around.

I don't think MLF is anywhere near as bad as "play not to lose" as is MM. Then again, with a solid lead, MLF fails to find ways to hold and increase the lead in the 2H, esp Q4. He has gone counter to "play not to lose" with low percentage "kill shots" that usually just kill drives.

One thing I observed that imo was tied to GB failing to hold onto leads was our Lackluster running game. It’s bordering on egregious for Josh Jacobs to finish at 4.0 per carry. That means when teams “expect” us to Run the clock? We’re likely well under <4.0 per or 3-3.5 per rush.

Aaron Jones has 1 CAREER season below 4.5 per carry across 9 seasons. Josh Jacobs just fell short of Aaron’s worst (4.2) Rushing by per carry season.
That’s embarrassing to see Josh finish at 4.0 imo.

imo We either need to mix in more short passes OR get at least 1 upgrade on OL. I’d prefer Sean move back to RG IF he’s reasonable $$. We need a better answer at Center and if they don’t think Monk is that guy? They should either sign a Center in FA or trade for one or at minimum draft 1 in Day2

 

[shockerx]

One thing I observed that imo was tied to GB failing to hold onto leads was our Lackluster running game. It’s bordering on egregious for Josh Jacobs to finish at 4.0 per carry.

Aaron Jones has 1 CAREER season below 4.5 per carry across 9 seasons. Josh Jacobs just fell short of Aaron’s worst Rushing by per carry season of (4.2 per).
That’s embarrassing to see Josh finish at 4.0 imo.

You can’t hold a lead and chew clock averaging 3-3.5 per carry. It’s a forced Punt scenario that turns into a nightmare ending

to close out these games we give away, you have impose your will. Run the football right at them, then you own the clock. I know everyone wants a CB early, not me. If there is a road grader IOL in the second im for it. Also pack Butkus bags ASAP.

 

[rmontro]

I hope next season we learn a little from watching McVae, Stafford, Nacua, and the Rams. Even their kicker came through in January.

I don't know how many times this past season I thought "Surely, they will have learned something from this". But then afterward it would just be the same old thing.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I hope next season we learn a little from watching McVae, Stafford, Nacua, and the Rams. Even their kicker came through in January.

The sum of the parts thing worked out well for the Rams. They were oh so close this year and last year in returning to the SB. McVay gets the most out of his guys. Shanahan also did an admirable job managing through a lot of injuries as well in SF. The NFC West was just loaded with talent this year, well, Arizona notwithstanding.......

Your exampe of a team playing together - the Rams - is a good one. Winning games isn't about individual performance but collective performance. Sounds so obvious, I hate to say it. But I can't name a single player on the Hags other than Darnold and Walker III, and they don't play defense, yet the defense was spectacular. Oh and they won the SB, easily.

It speaks to the importance of good coaching. And it concerns me that MLF has made so few changes, so far, to his offensive coaching staff. Stevanich stands out to me. IMO he'd be better leading the OL rather than as MLF's shadow as OC. MLF is the OC.

This is probably worthy of its own thread - assessing the coaching staff for the offense starting with MLF. It seems like the same cast is being run back. Maybe that's a good thing. I think the offense needs some new ideas, and MLF needs some in-game help with play calling and clock management. Love is not nearly as good as Rodgers was at changing plays at the LOS.

 

[Heyjoe4]

One thing I observed that imo was tied to GB failing to hold onto leads was our Lackluster running game. It’s bordering on egregious for Josh Jacobs to finish at 4.0 per carry. That means when teams “expect” us to Run the clock? We’re likely well under <4.0 per or 3-3.5 per rush.

Aaron Jones has 1 CAREER season below 4.5 per carry across 9 seasons. Josh Jacobs just fell short of Aaron’s worst (4.2) Rushing by per carry season.
That’s embarrassing to see Josh finish at 4.0 imo.

imo We either need to mix in more short passes OR get at least 1 upgrade on OL. I’d prefer Sean move back to RG IF he’s reasonable $$. We need a better answer at Center and if they don’t think Monk is that guy? They should either sign a Center in FA or trade for one or at minimum draft 1 in Day2

All great points. I'm not sure how much the lackluster and ever-changing OL had to do with the run game this year, or of it's Jacobs feeling the years, or most likely, both. I'd rather see Gluten shore up the OL, starting with C, and add some decent depth.

Either way, the Packers should be thinking about life without Jacobs starting in the 2027 season. I hate to say that. I love the guy and he's the heart and soul of the offense. But it's about winning.

 

[Heyjoe4]

to close out these games we give away, you have impose your will. Run the football right at them, then you own the clock. I know everyone wants a CB early, not me. If there is a road grader IOL in the second im for it. Also pack Butkus bags ASAP.

Yeah shockerx I'd love to see a real, All-Pro capable CB added, but we all know the game is won and lost in the trenches. Seattle and Philadelphia won the last two SBs because they dominated, primarily on the DL.

And why is Butkus not gone already? I gotta believe Gannon is gonna bring in his own guy.

 

[CarryTheG14]

One thing I observed that imo was tied to GB failing to hold onto leads was our Lackluster running game. It’s bordering on egregious for Josh Jacobs to finish at 4.0 per carry. That means when teams “expect” us to Run the clock? We’re likely well under <4.0 per or 3-3.5 per rush.

Aaron Jones has 1 CAREER season below 4.5 per carry across 9 seasons. Josh Jacobs just fell short of Aaron’s worst (4.2) Rushing by per carry season.
That’s embarrassing to see Josh finish at 4.0 imo.

imo We either need to mix in more short passes OR get at least 1 upgrade on OL. I’d prefer Sean move back to RG IF he’s reasonable $$. We need a better answer at Center and if they don’t think Monk is that guy? They should either sign a Center in FA or trade for one or at minimum draft 1 in Day2

Matt definitely telegraphed the run even when it wasn't working well. There's so many different things they can do with the line, I'm really interested in what they choose to do. I do believe it'll be much better than last year based on Morgan playing his natural position, hopefully Tom is healthy, Belton being in year two, and I do think Rhyn will be re-signed.

Mixing in short passes would be really helpful, but I also think they need to trust Jordan more. You're probably not going to find a bigger Love fan than me. I think he's as good as anyone in this league not named Josh Allen. I want Matt to trust that Jordan can make a completion to continue to run the clock.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Matt definitely telegraphed the run even when it wasn't working well. There's so many different things they can do with the line, I'm really interested in what they choose to do. I do believe it'll be much better than last year based on Morgan playing his natural position, hopefully Tom is healthy, Belton being in year two, and I do think Rhyn will be re-signed.

Mixing in short passes would be really helpful, but I also think they need to trust Jordan more. You're probably not going to find a bigger Love fan than me. I think he's as good as anyone in this league not named Josh Allen. I want Matt to trust that Jordan can make a completion to continue to run the clock.

Agreed Carry, although I think MLF has enough trust in Love to execute a play.

Where I see room for improvement, and maybe more trust from MLF, is to allow Love to make more changes at the LOS. For all I know he is doing this, and there are some times where it's obvious to even a casual fan that the QB is changing a play.

Certainly Rodgers had all the freedom he wanted to change a call. But Rodgers played at a physical and intellectual level very few QBs can match.

But c'mon, Love has been around six years now, three as a starter. If he doesn't know how to read a defense and change a call, he never will. I think he can and MLF should encourage it.

 

[CarryTheG14]

Agreed Carry, although I think MLF has enough trust in Love to execute a play.

Where I see room for improvement, and maybe more trust from MLF, is to allow Love to make more changes at the LOS. For all I know he is doing this, and there are some times where it's obvious to even a casual fan that the QB is changing a play.

Certainly Rodgers had all the freedom he wanted to change a call. But Rodgers played at a physical and intellectual level very few QBs can match.

But c'mon, Love has been around six years now, three as a starter. If he doesn't know how to read a defense and change a call, he never will. I think he can and MLF should encourage it.

Could be. I just want to rely on Love more rather than the running game. And I want him to embrace the QB Jordan is. A Playmaker who'll occasionally make a mistake.