Fire Matt LaFleur

[chemist]

It seems

I'll take his winning! If his no-nonsense style is construed as arrogance, I'll take that too since it translates to teams that play outstanding fundamental football. In contrast to what we see with the Packers.

After the Ravens game, MLF commented that he didn't know if the reason why the Ravens ran the ball down the Packers throat was due to players who could've been out of position. How in the world can players be out of position in week 17 other than not knowing their assignments, not reading the plays correctly, or completely botching the defensive call.

Those mistakes point to a cavalier attitude towards getting the basics down right.

Cignetti demands discipline. Without that you pretty much have no foundation to stand on

 

[Magooch]

I'll take his winning! If his no-nonsense style is construed as arrogance, I'll take that too since it translates to teams that play outstanding fundamental football. In contrast to what we see with the Packers.

After the Ravens game, MLF commented that he didn't know if the reason why the Ravens ran the ball down the Packers throat was due to players who could've been out of position. How in the world can players be out of position in week 17 other than not knowing their assignments, not reading the plays correctly, or completely botching the defensive call.

Those mistakes point to a cavalier attitude towards getting the basics down right.

Alternatively it may also speak to Matt sometimes being (IMO) too nice to a fault. He may know with absolute certainty what was going on there but he will almost NEVER throw a player or coach under the bus in a situation like that.

Which is fine, there's something positive to be said for that....ONLY if that player/coach/etc is being properly disciplined for it behind the scenes ("properly" here meaning "in such a way that the issue does not continue to occur"). That is the area that seems to be lacking from what we can tell

 

[rmontro]

Does he have what MLF does have?

What's that? Experience losing the big game?
Eh, just joking. Mostly.

 

[OldSchool101]

My issue with going for it on 4th down has a lot to do with the situation. I hate it when early in a game - on the road - we pass on a chip shot FG to take the lead. Then we are chasing points the rest of the game. I don't think it is wise to go for it on your side of 50. Campbell in Detroit is known to do this and it came back to bite him in the backside. But the biggest boneheaded move by MLF was going for it on the 11 yard line facing 4th and EIGHT instead of a FG early in the 4th quarter. I about lost it.

I’d agree with this in most scenarios. The only time I can think of that I would go for a 4th n short inside our own 40 is if we’re behind and a punt would = a loss. If there is a Quarter+ left and I’m inside 2-3 scores I’m punting at my own 35. Especially with our Kicker who has the leg to roll it inside their 10 yardline.

Now at our own 45 yardline and 4th n <1 and losing a couple scores, I might call an option play to one side in huddle and scramble to the LOS and if it’s a favorable matchup? I’ll take it. Otherwise try to get them to jump and take the -5 delay of game. A accidental false start or delay really doesn’t hurt, so might as well peak at their cards.

Whelan has the leg to bounce it at 55 yards, but he has poor control also. You almost rather him kick it from out 30-40 area anyhow. When Near 45-50 midfield it’s likely Touchback either way.

 

[milani]

G

Good luck getting Cignetti! With what he's done at James Madison and now at Indiana, he'll be able to go anywhere he wants at any price. That said, I would think his approach would work at any level.

The Badgers could use him.

 

[Sanguine camper]

Alternatively it may also speak to Matt sometimes being (IMO) too nice to a fault. He may know with absolute certainty what was going on there but he will almost NEVER throw a player or coach under the bus in a situation like that.

Which is fine, there's something positive to be said for that....ONLY if that player/coach/etc is being properly disciplined for it behind the scenes ("properly" here meaning "in such a way that the issue does not continue to occur"). That is the area that seems to be lacking from what we can tell

MLF does eventually bench players who aren't producing and with that action, imposes some discipline. IMO, it sometimes takes too long and the damage is done.

An example would be Rashon Gary. Finally in week 17, he saw his snaps reduced even though he hasn't really done anything since October and is statistically, one of the worst outside pass rushers in the league in the last 10 weeks.

Hobbs was benched sooner when he was stinking it up so it seems the discipline waxes and wanes.

I see MLF as a really good x's and O's guy who is good at designing an offense. That's why I think he'd make a very good offensive coordinator. He's also a good teacher if you judge that by what he's been able to do with Willis and Love.

Where he fails is at managing. He's not good at managing games, his coaching staff, nor instilling discipline and focus for the entire 60 minutes.

Like all of us, MLF has his strengths and weaknesses. The thing that's holding him and the team back is that it often appears he makes the same mistakes over and over again. I doubt it's because he's stupid. He's very bright. Perhaps he has a stubborn streak in him or as has been said, too nice to be an NFL HC.

 

[chemist]

MLF does eventually bench players who aren't producing and with that action, imposes some discipline. IMO, it sometimes takes too long and the damage is done.

An example would be Rashon Gary. Finally in week 17, he saw his snaps reduced even though he hasn't really done anything since October and is statistically, one of the worst outside pass rushers in the league in the last 10 weeks.

Hobbs was benched sooner when he was stinking it up so it seems the discipline waxes and wanes.

I see MLF as a really good x's and O's guy who is good at designing an offense. That's why I think he'd make a very good offensive coordinator. He's also a good teacher if you judge that by what he's been able to do with Willis and Love.

Where he fails is at managing. He's not good at managing games, his coaching staff, nor instilling discipline and focus for the entire 60 minutes.

Like all of us, MLF has his strengths and weaknesses. The thing that's holding him and the team back is that it often appears he makes the same mistakes over and over again. I doubt it's because he's stupid. He's very bright. Perhaps he has a stubborn streak in him or as has been said, too nice to be an NFL HC.

I'm not going to dredge up any more of my own comments about MLF and his plus and minus sides. His record speaks for itself. No opinion here, just the facts. He has a good season record rivaling holmgren. Both show 7 seasons in their resume so a good side by side comparison.
But When we look at the playoff record over those 7 seasons holmgren was 9-5, MLF 3-5.. so holmgren had the same amount of losses but 3x as many wins.
Whatever minuses MLF has seem to show up when everything is on the line

 

[milani]

MLF does eventually bench players who aren't producing and with that action, imposes some discipline. IMO, it sometimes takes too long and the damage is done.

An example would be Rashon Gary. Finally in week 17, he saw his snaps reduced even though he hasn't really done anything since October and is statistically, one of the worst outside pass rushers in the league in the last 10 weeks.

Hobbs was benched sooner when he was stinking it up so it seems the discipline waxes and wanes.

I see MLF as a really good x's and O's guy who is good at designing an offense. That's why I think he'd make a very good offensive coordinator. He's also a good teacher if you judge that by what he's been able to do with Willis and Love.

Where he fails is at managing. He's not good at managing games, his coaching staff, nor instilling discipline and focus for the entire 60 minutes.

Like all of us, MLF has his strengths and weaknesses. The thing that's holding him and the team back is that it often appears he makes the same mistakes over and over again. I doubt it's because he's stupid. He's very bright. Perhaps he has a stubborn streak in him or as has been said, too nice to be an NFL HC.

Sometimes a team needs a little " What the hell is going on out here? " When players make a blunder the first thing in their mind should be " Coach ain't gonna like that. " Even way back when I was in Little League that was my first fear. It should serve as a reminder that you can play better. When Jerry Kramer wrote those books he could still hear the sound of Lombardi's voice ringing in ears. To this day I can still hear my coach after I made a feeble effort to play a ground ball. " What's the matter? You got a board in your back? "

 

[Half Empty]

Hard for me to understand disciplining of players today. Screw up and we sit you, but you still get paid extremely well. If we really don't like you, we cut you - then, you keep the guaranteed money and some other team will think they can get you to live up to your draft status, previous performance, or playing a position of need.

 

[rmontro]

Hard for me to understand disciplining of players today. Screw up and we sit you, but you still get paid extremely well. If we really don't like you, we cut you - then, you keep the guaranteed money and some other team will think they can get you to live up to your draft status, previous performance, or playing a position of need.

Thank the player's union for that.

 

[Sanguine camper]

Hard for me to understand disciplining of players today. Screw up and we sit you, but you still get paid extremely well. If we really don't like you, we cut you - then, you keep the guaranteed money and some other team will think they can get you to live up to your draft status, previous performance, or playing a position of need.

The guaranteed money is the focal point of contract negotiations. Every player is one play away from tearing up a knee or injuring his neck and being finished.

It would be interesting to see if big guaranteed contracts result in guys getting lazy and dropping their performance. There are anecdotal references for sure but that and 5 bucks will get you a cup of coffee.

 

[rmontro]

It would be interesting to see if big guaranteed contracts result in guys getting lazy and dropping their performance. There are anecdotal references for sure but that and 5 bucks will get you a cup of coffee.

I'm sure that's the case sometimes. There are pros and cons to everything. Well, most things.

 

[BrokenArrow]

I'm not going to dredge up any more of my own comments about MLF and his plus and minus sides. His record speaks for itself. No opinion here, just the facts. He has a good season record rivaling holmgren. Both show 7 seasons in their resume so a good side by side comparison.
But When we look at the playoff record over those 7 seasons holmgren was 9-5, MLF 3-5.. so holmgren had the same amount of losses but 3x as many wins.
Whatever minuses MLF has seem to show up when everything is on the line

I don't believe the man has much in the way of mental toughness. He panics when things aren't going quite right, and then he is prone to stupid decisions and that confused look he often has on his face. He's OC material, not HC material.

 

[adambr2]

I don't believe the man has much in the way of mental toughness. He panics when things aren't going quite right, and then he is prone to stupid decisions and that confused look he often has on his face. He's OC material, not HC material.

This pretty much echos my thoughts.

I think he is a smart, smart football man who knows his X’s and O’s and design a good gameplan. As @chemist said, his regular season record speaks for itself.

And then on the other hand, I just don’t think he has that intangible HC mind where he can think on the fly, make crucial decisions in the moment, and multi-task numerous elements of the game in the biggest situations — which has helped explain our downfall in big close games.

 

[OldSchool101]

An example would be Rashon Gary. Finally in week 17, he saw his snaps reduced even though he hasn't really done anything since October and is statistically, one of the worst outside pass rushers in the league in the last 10 weeks.

11 of his 33 QB pressures are from Week 14-16. Overall, Gary is currently ranked 16th out of 115 Qualified at Edge in Pressure efficiency. 33% of that stellar rating came from Weeks 14-16. Exactly opposite of what you contend.

7 of Rashan’s 11 QB hurries on the season came from week 14-16. He also has 4 QB knockdowns in that 3 consecutive week span. To be accurate the majority of both Rashan Gary’s QB hits, Knockdowns, PD and Pressures happened in week 14,15,16.

Somethings not adding up!

Just a tidbit. Rashan is Double teamed on 41% of his pass rushes. Which only 15 players (Edge Class) have a higher Double Team rate per Rush. He’s just over the median ranking in effectiveness during a Double Team. Meaning Rashan is very efficient at taking doubles. Interestingly enough there are 2 Packers in the Top 15 Edge players that are ahead of Rashan both in Doubles and how they handle them
Micah and…??

LVN has the 6th most Double teams per pass rush snap in the NFL. The top 3? Garrett, Watt, Parsons. Just to solidify, this is a class you want to be part of. Van Ness has barely played but he’s obviously highly respected by our opponent. Van Ness is also in the top 6 in efficiency during a double team. Leaguewide. He splits smack dab between Gary and Parsons.

I digress. Duly Noted though as far as Rashan only getting a 44% snap count last week. His season low. Really strange when him and TJ Slaton both ranked Top 25 in the league in Run Stop efficiency in 2024. Why would we take Rashan out in a game with 53 Runs? He’s one of our best Run Stoppers. He only played like 33 snaps which is NY bizarre Bozo

 

[rmontro]

I don't believe the man has much in the way of mental toughness. He panics when things aren't going quite right, and then he is prone to stupid decisions and that confused look he often has on his face. He's OC material, not HC material.

Doesn't he basically act as OC though, and let Hafley run the defense? A lot of times with offensive-minded coaches, they only step in with the defense if there is a glaring problem.

 

[tynimiller]

11 of his 33 QB pressures are from Week 14-16. Overall, Gary is currently ranked 16th out of 115 Qualified at Edge in Pressure efficiency. 33% of that stellar rating came from Weeks 14-16. Exactly opposite of what you contend.

7 of Rashan’s 11 QB hurries on the season came from week 14-16. He also has 4 QB knockdowns in that 3 consecutive week span. To be accurate the majority of both Rashan Gary’s QB hits, Knockdowns, PD and Pressures happened in week 14,15,16.

Somethings not adding up!

Just a tidbit. Rashan is Double teamed on 41% of his pass rushes. Which only 15 players (Edge Class) have a higher Double Team rate per Rush. He’s just over the median ranking in effectiveness during a Double Team. Meaning Rashan is very efficient at taking doubles. Interestingly enough there are 2 Packers in the Top 15 Edge players that are ahead of Rashan both in Doubles and how they handle them
Micah and…??

LVN has the 6th most Double teams per pass rush snap in the NFL. The top 3? Garrett, Watt, Parsons. Just to solidify, this is a class you want to be part of. Van Ness has barely played but he’s obviously highly respected by our opponent. Van Ness is also in the top 6 in efficiency during a double team. Leaguewide. He splits smack dab between Gary and Parsons.

I digress. Duly Noted though as far as Rashan only getting a 44% snap count last week. His season low. Really strange when him and TJ Slaton both ranked Top 25 in the league in Run Stop efficiency in 2024. Why would we take Rashan out in a game with 53 Runs? He’s one of our best Run Stoppers. He only played like 33 snaps which is NY bizarre Bozo

LVN is a much better player than so many give him credit, but those that know (including opponents) know what he is. He has looked incredible of late.

Gary I think is reaching the point where he is most valuable when scaled back a little....hoping he agrees to a paycut...or I think he may be on his way out.

If Wyatt stayed healthier or our interior was better it would help so so much!!

 

[adambr2]

Doesn't he basically act as OC though, and let Hafley run the defense? A lot of times with offensive-minded coaches, they only step in with the defense if there is a glaring problem.

Yes but being a HC is so much bigger is a scope. Time management and in game decision making being two of the biggest differences.

 

[OldSchool101]

LVN is a much better player than so many give him credit, but those that know (including opponents) know what he is. He has looked incredible of late.

Gary I think is reaching the point where he is most valuable when scaled back a little....hoping he agrees to a paycut...or I think he may be on his way out.

If Wyatt stayed healthier or our interior was better it would help so so much!!

I still was looking forward to Cox Jr picking up where he left off late last year. Yet he only played 9 snaps against Baltimore. I don’t know if he’s not right injury wise or if that was in response to him being more a pass rush rotation type.

As far as Gary he’s a tough one. With his $$ they might be thinking moving on post June, $19mil+ goes a long ways in finding a suitable replacement to pair with Micah. GB could also do a restructure and save $8.7mil Cap. So that could make some sense there also.

We could potentially be thinking moving on though. Especially if they think Lukas is ready to pair up with Micah

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[Half Empty]

Thank the player's union for that.

I know what started it, but I 'thank' is the word I would use.

 

[BrokenArrow]

Doesn't he basically act as OC though, and let Hafley run the defense? A lot of times with offensive-minded coaches, they only step in with the defense if there is a glaring problem.

I'm referring to his game management skills. He needs time to plan. When he has to improvise or make decisions on the fly, which a HC has to do, that's when he struggles.

 

[Sanguine camper]

11 of his 33 QB pressures are from Week 14-16. Overall, Gary is currently ranked 16th out of 115 Qualified at Edge in Pressure efficiency. 33% of that stellar rating came from Weeks 14-16. Exactly opposite of what you contend.

7 of Rashan’s 11 QB hurries on the season came from week 14-16. He also has 4 QB knockdowns in that 3 consecutive week span. To be accurate the majority of both Rashan Gary’s QB hits, Knockdowns, PD and Pressures happened in week 14,15,16.

Somethings not adding up!

Just a tidbit. Rashan is Double teamed on 41% of his pass rushes. Which only 15 players (Edge Class) have a higher Double Team rate per Rush. He’s just over the median ranking in effectiveness during a Double Team. Meaning Rashan is very efficient at taking doubles. Interestingly enough there are 2 Packers in the Top 15 Edge players that are ahead of Rashan both in Doubles and how they handle them
Micah and…??

LVN has the 6th most Double teams per pass rush snap in the NFL. The top 3? Garrett, Watt, Parsons. Just to solidify, this is a class you want to be part of. Van Ness has barely played but he’s obviously highly respected by our opponent. Van Ness is also in the top 6 in efficiency during a double team. Leaguewide. He splits smack dab between Gary and Parsons.

I digress. Duly Noted though as far as Rashan only getting a 44% snap count last week. His season low. Really strange when him and TJ Slaton both ranked Top 25 in the league in Run Stop efficiency in 2024. Why would we take Rashan out in a game with 53 Runs? He’s one of our best Run Stoppers. He only played like 33 snaps which is NY bizarre Bozo

The reason why Rashon got less playing time is he's not getting to the QB. 'Pressures' often result in the QB scrambling or stepping into the pocket to get a first down. I think a lot of his pressure are also coming on those plays where the secondary has great coverage giving him extra time. I don't see where he's disrupting plays at all. He'll chase the QB if he stands back there for his 3 or 4 seconds but he's largely invisible.

When was his last sack? Hint: It was when Parsons was getting double teamed and flushing the QB towards him. I like that he can play the run but he's getting paid the big bucks to get to the QB. If he wasn't declining so rapidly, it's doubtful his playing time vs the Ravens would've fallen off so much. As you say, they needed some run stoppers but the coaches couldn't stomach his paltry pass rush any more.

 

[Magooch]

I’m curious: Hafley is once again getting some head coaching buzz, with Jeremy Fowler saying he is very confident he’ll get a HC job.

So my question is - does that impact your thoughts/plans regarding LaFleur at this point? If you decide to continue with MLF and Hafley leaves, then by extension you’re having Matt select another new coordinator.

But, you could make the case then that to retain some degree of continuity (assuming Hafley and Bisaccia are both gone) maybe it’s better to retain at least one piece of the equation.

On the other hand, one might argue that it would be beneficial to start with an entirely clean slate?

 

[OldSchool101]

When was his last sack? Hint:

I already knew this was what you were referring to, I just thought I would entertain your constant complaints.
This is what all surface level evaluations look to. It’s called lazy fans or sometime pundits who don’t even watch games. Last year it was your group that complained about Not getting to the QB when in fact The Packers ranked 8th in Sacks. It’s a never ending, moving target when you debate with a fan who is never satisfied.

Btw you said Rashan Gary is one of the worst DE since week 10, which is quite obvious what you consider “worst”. You took zero time to do any research because you don’t care to and when you get called out on your laziness, you move target to “this is how I feel” which has exactly ZERO relevancy. You can have your lazy, unpacked opinion, but you can’t stand it when it doesn’t hold up to factual information.

 

[DABIGZ]

I already knew this was what you were referring to, I just thought I would entertain your constant complaints.
This is what all surface level evaluations look to. It’s called lazy fans or sometime pundits who don’t even watch games. Last year it was your group that complained about Not getting to the QB when in fact The Packers ranked 8th in Sacks. It’s a never ending, moving target when you debate with a fan who is never satisfied.

Btw you said Rashan Gary is one of the worst DE since week 10, which is quite obvious what you consider “worst”. You took zero time to do any research because you don’t care to. Now your complaint switched simply to “my eye test” which is completely subjective. The NFL doesn’t gauge performance by eye test.

So, may I ask Oldschool, do you think Gary is living up to the money he’s getting paid?