Fire Capers

[Sanguine camper]

Packers are getting physically whipped at the line of scrimmage. It has little to do with scheme. They are just getting blown out. Rodgers has to be perfect for the Packers to win. Only reason the Packers are ranked 5th against the passim entrails is that teams can run the ball down the Packers throat at will. You don't have to pass much when it's always second and 2. Pass defense still stinks too. No one on this team has a clue in stopping a tight end.

 

[PikeBadger]

Not when teams can run it down your throat like today. Had the Bears defense made some stops we would've been in trouble because we had no answer for forte they could've ran Forte the entire game ... he would've broken the single game rushing record. The holes were huge and it was hard to watch the run defense . Matthews and Peppers have to be all pro EVERY week and stop having padestrian days like today where neither hardly did anything. If not for the int I would've thought .Matthews was out of the game . He shoulda took the day off to rest that groin because he was a no show today.

On another note the middle of our defense has to be amongst the worse I've ever seen. I don't know why the line can't get off blocks? This goes all the way to last year.

It's getting almost impossible to watch. The only way this defense can get off the field is if opposing offenses commit penalties and put themselves in terrible down and distance situations.
What is the early prognosis for 2015 draft d-linemen? I hope it's a deep draft for that position group.

 

[longtimefan]

Had the Bears defense made some stops we would've been in trouble

if grandma had nutts, she would be grandpa. Dont worry about IF the Bears made stops, they COULDNT make stops.

And no matter what people say, or how it happened, our def made stops from the end of the 1st half thru entire 2nd half..

We hear, Jay forced a throw, yet not how great the play was from Tramon and Clay..

The 2nd int, we hear it was only cuz Jay screwed up, not because Marshall may have ran the wrong route..Or that if Jay and Marshall were on same page, Sam was toast..


I think that is what irritates posters here..No praise at all, just ridicule

We all know how bad the run def looked, we all know it shouldnt happen all the time..But they won, they held the Bears to 0 points from last few minutes of 2nd quart to end of game..

The holes were huge and it was hard to watch the run defense . Matthews and Peppers have to be all pro EVERY week and stop having padestrian days like today where neither hardly did anything.

On another note the middle of our defense has to be amongst the worse I've ever seen. I don't know why the line can't get off blocks? This goes all the way to last year.

I agree with 100%

 

[brandon2348]

It's getting almost impossible to watch. The only way this defense can get off the field is if opposing offenses commit penalties and put themselves in terrible down and distance situations.
What is the early prognosis for 2015 draft d-linemen? I hope it's a deep draft for that position group.

I think I have an idea. Let Williams, Brad Jones, Hawk, Raji all go at end of year. I would add Burnett to the list but financially makes no sense.

Sign Free Agent

Ndamukong Suh DT

Draft Dezel Perryman ILB Miami

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Draft Terry Williams DT East Carolina

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I know our run D would be better plus have more pressure up middle which would even help outside edge guys more.

Oh yeah. We would be meaner in the middle.

 

[El Guapo]

What all of this lacks is the perspective of another full season. Saying who you're going to cut and draft after Week 4 is quite premature. This defense has time. What I see (except for Guion who I don't like) is players not playing within the scheme, not players that can't play within the scheme.

 

[TJV]

Ndamukong Suh is not going to be a Green Bay Packer. If the Lions don't extend him, the bidding war for his services will be unreal. IMO no realistic plan/suggestion should include something with no chance of happening.

 

[brandon2348]

What all of this lacks is the perspective of another full season. Saying who you're going to cut and draft after Week 4 is quite premature. This defense has time. What I see (except for Guion who I don't like) is players not playing within the scheme, not players that can't play within the scheme.

I've been talking about getting rid of Brad Jones and A.J Hawk longer then 4 weeks. Look at there contracts in 2015. Almost no dead money. There as good as gone.

 

[brandon2348]

Ndamukong Suh is not going to be a Green Bay Packer. If the Lions don't extend him, the bidding war for his services will be unreal. IMO no realistic plan/suggestion should include something with no chance of happening.

And one might of said we had no chance of landing Peppers or would.

 

[PackerDNA]

We can talk about Capers- pro or con- forever. But this team lacks talent and physical play throughout the defense.
You can dump the whole D line with the exception of D. Jones and Daniels; all the ILB's with the possible exception of Lattimore; and say goodbye to Burnett.
It's execution, not scheme. Players, not plays. This D, especially up front and in the middle, needs to get bigger, stronger, faster and a lot more physical.

 

[TJV]

Ndamukong Suh will be 28 years old when/if he enters UFA. Peppers was 34. As I'll bet most know, those six years are a very big difference.

 

[brandon2348]

Ndamukong Suh will be 28 years old when/if he enters UFA. Peppers was 34. As I'll bet most know, those six years are a very big difference.

They could dump Peppers too if they wanted. Peppers contract is 12 million and carries 5 million in dead money. That is about what Suh will probably be offered is around 10-12 million. That's what a premiere DT gets. Do I think they will get Suh? No i don't. It is possible though as TT has a lot of money at his disposal especially with not bringing a lot of guys back. Plus they keep jacking up the salary cap and they have rolling cap money. They could easily do it while dumping mediocre players. They could even keep Peppers if they wanted. They will have the money.

I agree with PackerDNA that this D needs an overhaul and it starts in the middle. IMO you don't want to build a defense outside to inside. To me it's just backwards. The Burnett contract was one of TT's biggest blunders as a GM IMO. I can't believe the long term guaranteed money in that contract.

The future in the secondary looks good. They just need to load up that middle with guys that can play. IMO the guys I listed above in my post would be a serious step in that direction.

 

[TJV]

Do I think they will get Suh? No i don't.

We agree.

 

[brandon2348]

Well since this thread is about Capers and after what I have seen the middle is soft. Real soft. I am not advocating for Capers but I don't think any D coordinator could do any better with these guys Capers has at his disposal. I don't care if its only week 4 as we knew this going in and tried to optimistic about the middle of D. You cant turn "chicken ****" into "chicken salad".

 

[Shawnsta3]

Yeah cause that Jarius Byrd signing really helped the Saints this year..

 

[PackerDNA]

Yeah cause that Jarius Byrd signing really helped the Saints this year..

You can pick and choose on the negatives in free agency, but when you're basically a draft and develop team that isn't drafting or developing well enough recently, then you can either be more aggressive with your player acquirement methods, or continue to fall behind.
The Seahawks, 49ers and Broncos have been aggressive in UFA and trades in recent times. It seems to be working well for them.

 

[Zeck180]

Lions wont get rid of Suh, he's the face of that defense and will put up big money to keep him. Management wise these aren't the same Lions now that Ford is dead and his son has taken over.

 

[brandon2348]

Yeah cause that Jarius Byrd signing really helped the Saints this year..

Jarius Byrd was a waste of money. I never advocated to get him. I was not in Byrd la la land like a lot people.

 

[brandon2348]

Lions wont get rid of Suh, he's the face of that defense and will put up big money to keep him. Management wise these aren't the same Lions now that Ford is dead and his son has taken over.

Suh wants out of Detroit. He is already getting paid elite money and there winning. He still wants out.

 

[brandon2348]

I can feel Detroit getting ready to implode. Same old Lions.

 

[mradtke66]

Suh wants out of Detroit. He is already getting paid elite money and there winning. He still wants out.

Eh, it's not necessarily that. He can get SUPREME NUMBER ONE AWESOME WHISKY NUMBER ONE FUN TIME MONEY if he leaves the Lions.

Suh was drafted under the old CBA. He made a crap-ton of money. A quick search shows that his *base* salary for 2014 is 12,550,000. The 2014 franchise tag for a DT was about 9.7M. Obviously, we don't know for sure what the franchise number will be for 2015 DTs, I'm pretty sure it'll be less than that 12.5M. In that case, his franchise number would be 1.25 x 12.55M or ~15.6M. For one year. I can't imaging anyone paying that much for a DT for one year.

Plus, there's how Suh's contract is structured. It's actually a 5 year contract that can be/will be voided after this year (assuming I understand it correct). Probably structured that way so the team could walk away or restructure right about now. I wouldn't be surprised if players lost to a voided contract cannot be franchised or if his contract specifically disallowed that.

Unfortunately for the Lions, the market will work out that someone will pay a kings ransom for Suh. There is literally no reason for Suh to *not* hit URFA. His only risk is if he gets hurt before the end of the year.

 

[brandon2348]

I don't think we'd be able to afford Suh. That guy is set to make A LOT, and JJ Watt's contract will likely set the standard even though Watt plays 3-4 DE. Watt got $100 million over 6 years, and over half of that was guaranteed. Suh is definitely going to opt out, no question, because it's my understand that Suh will only be seeing about $7 million in new money.

Another guy that will be out there is Nick Fairley. One thing that could help us sign Raji to a reasonable contract is that guys like Suh and Fairley will be out there for Raji to have to compete with. That could be enough to make Raji worried, and take a reasonable offer. And by reasonable, I don't mean contract minimum. If we get a new DC, that coach could also potentially have say on if we keep Raji or not.

Didn't Raji just take a 1 year 4 mill deal "prove it deal"? I don't think anyone would give him anymore then that next year with his last few years production and coming off injury.

 

[brandon2348]

Yup. $4-$5 million is what I was saying earlier. Last year they offered him $8 million and Raji didn't want it. Now, he's going to end up with much less than $8 million per year. And what does that mean? It's the perfect opportunity for the Packers to sign him. He's clearly the best NT on our team right now, so why not sign him for that amount? Some people have said he's worth no more than the minimum, though, and I just don't understand that thinking. Had Raji actually proved it, he likely would've left for $8+ million/year.

Yeah I know the history of the situation. I would have no problem with them bringing Raji back on a similar type deal and I am sure he will take it. Then draft another guy like "Terry WIlliams".

 

[HardRightEdge]

I earnestly hope I'm around for the opportunity to have the 1,000th. post. My patience was worn thin; now it is worn out.

 

[brandon2348]

Eh, it's not necessarily that. He can get SUPREME NUMBER ONE AWESOME WHISKY NUMBER ONE FUN TIME MONEY if he leaves the Lions.

Suh was drafted under the old CBA. He made a crap-ton of money. A quick search shows that his *base* salary for 2014 is 12,550,000. The 2014 franchise tag for a DT was about 9.7M. Obviously, we don't know for sure what the franchise number will be for 2015 DTs, I'm pretty sure it'll be less than that 12.5M. In that case, his franchise number would be 1.25 x 12.55M or ~15.6M. For one year. I can't imaging anyone paying that much for a DT for one year.

Plus, there's how Suh's contract is structured. It's actually a 5 year contract that can be/will be voided after this year (assuming I understand it correct). Probably structured that way so the team could walk away or restructure right about now. I wouldn't be surprised if players lost to a voided contract cannot be franchised or if his contract specifically disallowed that.

Unfortunately for the Lions, the market will work out that someone will pay a kings ransom for Suh. There is literally no reason for Suh to *not* hit URFA. His only risk is if he gets hurt before the end of the year.

I am not saying TT would do it. I am saying he could. Most expect the cap to get raised to 140 mill next year. If you get rid of Hawk and Jones and add current money that would roll from 2014 we would have about 34 million in cap space for 2015. After 2015 the Peppers contract gets real "cap friendly" so Suh could be structured accordingly.

Granite you got Cobb, Bulaga, House, Lattimore, Raji, Tramon(who I think will be gone) to consider plus extending some current players. TT will have money again this off-season to go after someone if he chooses.

I look at it like this. Aaron Rodgers is 30 so it's time now to get aggressive and get some Super Bowls.

 

[HardRightEdge]

It's getting almost impossible to watch. The only way this defense can get off the field is if opposing offenses commit penalties and put themselves in terrible down and distance situations.

Actually, the only way this defense has gotten off the field since Detroit's third possession is by turnover or the clock running out, with only one exception. This defense has not forced a punt in the opponents last 15 possessions covering 109 minutes of play. There could be a record for get-off-the-field futility in those stats somewhere.

Those 15 possessions yielded:

3 TD
2 FG
1 missed FG
1 out on downs
1 end of half
2 end of game
4 interceptions
1 fumble

The yards surrendered on those 15 possessions were, in order: 26, 31, 43, 67, 74, 75, 29, 80, 75, 80, 79, 61, 35, 45, 52

Even the Bears backup QB and TB marched down the field.

26 yards or more each time; 9 of 15 for over 50 yards...that is astonishingly bad.

As one might suspect from these numbers, the Packers D is dead last in the league in 3rd. down conversions surrendered at 52.6%. They are 23rd. in yards per carry surrendered at 4.6 and been run on more times than any other team. This last fact makes the 4.6 worse than it looks...teams are not terribly selective about when they run the ball...they just do it all the time.

The Packers have allowed opponents to run 66, 71, 74 and 77 plays (getting worse by the week), for an average of 72 per game. The league average typically runs about 60-62.

This is dodging bullets, not bend-don't-break. It looks like a degraded version of 2011 if that's possible. Forget the "points against" argument...as in 2011 this degree of porousness can't hold up.