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Fire Capers

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by azrsx05, Sep 9, 2012.

  1. GreenBlood

    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    Make the sale. I'm all ears on anyone right now.
     
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  2. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    I agree with everything said, even though our CB don't exactly excell at Zone.

    Also, For the record, We don't have to fire Capers. Various sources indicate his contract is up.
     
  3. NorthWestCheeseHead

    NorthWestCheeseHead Cheesehead

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    Dude you just wrote the Football Information version of 'Stairway to Heaven'. :laugh:
     
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  4. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    Leroy Butler advocates Perry for DC, says Packers should bring in college advisor as a specialist against read option.
     
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  5. GreenBlood

    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    My only thing about Perry is I'm very apprehensive about hiring from within a failed system. That's how we ended up with Slowik. But I'm all ears as to specifics why he should be the guy to take our defense to championship level before our offense falls off.
     
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  6. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    By my count 21 teams run a 4-3 defense. I read one post, can't remember who, that said a 4-3 would be more effective against the read option. I know the Giants run a 4-3 and had trouble with RG III. I truly don't know which is the best. Any bigger brains know which would be best? :confused:
     
  7. NorthWestCheeseHead

    NorthWestCheeseHead Cheesehead

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    Seattle runs a 4-3 and they ate Kaepernick alive when they played at CenturyLink. They didn't do to shabby vs RG3 either. Granted he got hurt, but they were already getting their feet under them on that second drive in the red zone.

    I didn't watch the Giants v Redskins games so I'm not really sure what the issue was there, but it could have just been their inconsistencies as a team. Or it could have been a SB hangover, or they didn't take RG3 seriously - could have been a number of things really.
     
  8. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    They played them twice. Giants barely won the first and lost the second. RG III gave them fits both times. Like I said I don't know the answer. Maybe this question deserves a separate thread?
     
  9. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    If Jim doesn't merge it! ;-)
     
  10. NorthWestCheeseHead

    NorthWestCheeseHead Cheesehead

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    merge what?
     
  11. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    The possible new thread that 13 Times Champs suggested. I'm just busting LongTimeFan's balls a little.
     
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  12. realcaliforniacheese

    realcaliforniacheese A-Rods Boss

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    20 pages of fire Capers. The Guy takes us to a Superbowl win, what was it, a whole 2 years ago. Last year Def was 32nd in league he starts retooling and brings it up to the 11th in the league. While making this improvement his linebacking corp is gutted with injuries, he is starting a bunch of rookies, Wood goes out for half the season and only makes it back to the playoffs with no time to get back up to speed, House is playing injured, we are only one season removed from losing our version of paloamalo and I am sure I am missing some other things.

    Capers is one of the greatest defensive minds to coach this game. I don't disagree that there was a major let down Saturday but there seems to be a lack of long term perspective. The Defense is on the way back to a top 10 if not a top 5. A little luck on the injury front, and some additions and to the D line and we are there.

    Why would you expect a new D coordinator with a new scheme to install to show better results next year. In my very very humble opinion we are on the right track.
     
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  13. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    My problem with him is not the scheme. It's the "you prepare well enough and it doesn't matter if they know exactly what you're gonna do" and "we dictate our gameplan, they don't dictate our gameplan" mentalities. He just doesn adjust. It seems like the more an adjustment is needed, the harder he digs in. That just doesn't work anymore. The league today is ALL about how flexible you are, not about how stubborn you are. And THAT is what Capers is all about; trying to force the opposing O to adjust to him. That's Parcells, Ryan, Martz, Singletary, Schottenheimer, SHERMAN!
     
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  14. GreenBlood

    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    I think the issue is his inability to adapt as the game changes. Players have indicated that no adjustments were made at halftime Saturday night. Really???
     
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  15. adambr2

    adambr2 Cheesehead

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    Whether or not you support Capers, I can't understand the argument that he deserves to stay because he improved on the 32nd ranked defense from last year, when HE was the one responsible for the 32nd ranked defense. It's not like he took over for a terrible coordinator, he WAS the guy who took the defense from top 5 to 32nd last year. It would be like the Packers going 2-14 next year and then 7-9 the following year and saying MM deserves to stay because he oversaw the improvement.

    The defensive performances in the playoffs the last 4 years, 2010-11 season aside, have been beyond atrocious under Capers' watch. There's no injury excuse to fall back on for last year or the Arizona debacle.
     
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  16. GreenBlood

    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    That's kind of an over-generalization. Too many factors. If we went 2-14 because Rodgers had a season-ending injury, I wouldn't be calling for MM to be fired at all.
     
  17. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    How about Trgovac then? I'm sure his record speaks for its self. Only problem is he says he doesn't want to be a DC again.
     
  18. adambr2

    adambr2 Cheesehead

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    Well, yeah. The point is that giving kudos for improvement doesn't really fly, IMO, when the one you're giving kudos to is the one responsible for the nosedive that necessitated the improvement in the first place.
     
  19. JBlood

    JBlood Cheesehead

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    Bishop hit it on the head when he said it's up to the players to play. Doesn't matter what the scheme is. Our front 7 is the weak link of the defense.
     
  20. 7thFloorRA

    7thFloorRA Cheesehead

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    This is under the watch of the DC. Too many players lack basic fundamentals, mental understanding and discipline. It is the 18th game of the season and there are blown assignments. I don't care what talent level the players are at physically, all 3 of those things are coachable and are not acceptable at the current level.
     
  21. adambr2

    adambr2 Cheesehead

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    I fully expect Bishop to say that. He's not going to throw Capers under the bus (though Woodson somewhat did).

    It does matter what the scheme is. It also matters if you're not adjusting to what the offense is doing. If it doesn't matter, there was no reason to get rid of Bob Sanders in the first place.
     
  22. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    If "guts" can be displayed on a mostly anonymous forum, IMO realcaliforniacheese's post qualifies. To adambr2, you're right it was Capers' D that fell to 19th in scoring D last season. (Since they keep score using points, I prefer that metric to yards surrendered per game.) IMO Capers should get credit for good performance of the D and blame for poor perfromance so let's look at his record as Packers' DC. The year before Capers arrived in Green Bay the Packers were 22nd in the league surrendering 23.8 ppg. Here is how the Packers finished each regular season since Capers took over:

    '09: 7th at 18.6 ppg
    '10: 2nd at 15.0 ppg
    '11: 19th at 22.4 ppg
    '12: 11th at 21.0 ppg

    I do agree with those who say Capers' lack of adjustments is very concerning. And frankly since every member of the team from the last guy on the active roster to Aaron Rodgers and from the assistant coach with the least responsibility to Mike McCarthy lives football 24/7 during the season, I've always wondered why, when they do make adjustments, they wait until halftime. They should be able to adjust series to series IMO. So I will not be upset if Capers isn't re-signed and/or decides to retire: some new blood and new ideas could reinvigorate the D. BTW, I mentioned Perry as my top choice among the current staff because I think it's more likely McCarthy will promote from within rather than bring in another DC. I would prefer he look at all available candidates if Capers is leaving but I don't think that's likely. And while I wouldn't be upset if Capers is replaced, that would certainly involve some risk. Obviously "change" does not automatically mean "improvement".

    BTW, I think it would be a huge mistake to change the scheme to deal with read option plays as I expect that will not be a long lasting trend in the league. Someone on sports radio this morning echoed what I posted about NFL D's probably making the adjustment next season that on every read option play, the QB gets hit. Also the 3-4 is supposed to be a good scheme against the run - but I agree with those who say the players are more important than the scheme.
     
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  23. GreenBlood

    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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  24. realcaliforniacheese

    realcaliforniacheese A-Rods Boss

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    Agree 100% with this. We have already seen RG3 go down with a major knee injury. Defenses will adjust, more of these option QBs will go out to injury and the read option in the NFL will have run it's course.
     
  25. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    You're right, here are a few:

    -A knee jerk reaction? Are you kidding me? Their last 3 play off losses under Capers they've given up 37, 45, and 51 points. Add on top of that over 1,500 yards of offense given up. YES he should be fired.
    He hasn't generated a lick of intensity or ferocity out of his guys. He can't effectively find ways to get pressure with 3,4,5,6,7 guys rushing the quarterback.
    He sits in HORRIBLE prevent defenses whenever we get any form of lead late. I personally blame him for at least 2 losses this year. Sometimes a fresh face is needed. Keep the 3-4 based on the personnel we have but get a new leader. Someone who'll fire guys up, dare I say stand on the sideline.

    -Have to disagree, Mike. While Capers has shown some ability to coach up the rookies and street free agents Thompson has given him, three epic failures in four post-seasons is strong evidence that Capers is a big reason why the Packers are elite no more. The failure to adequately game plan for Kapernick and the read-option is inexcusable. I've supported Capers, but after this latest debacle, my support is at an end.


    -Oh lets not forget the fact his OWN players called him out on running the SAME plays the entire game, never making any adjustments NONE of them thought he could run, who is to blame for this? Hm could it be capers? lets play Man to man defense when a qb has burned you for nearly 200 yards
     
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