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Favre's status

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Zombieslayer, May 29, 2007.

  1. Zombieslayer

    Zombieslayer Cheesehead

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    There seems to be a little bit of disagreement about how good Favre is now. I read up on Athlon Sports, and Pro Football Weekly's 2007 Preview and both think Favre isn't what he used to be.

    Let me first admit I am a Favre fan, so I do have bias. However, I think the reason why he was so bad in '05 was because everyone and their grandma was injured. The reason he was bad in '06 was our OL was so bad, we had to keep a TE and a RB back to block while only three receivers actually did some routes. If you're rushing four, it's easy to cover three receivers with seven defenders.

    Yes, Favre has lost a step. But he started two steps ahead of everyone else. Yes, Favre is a gambler. But he has always been one, and sometimes, it takes a gamble to win games.

    I still will put Favre in the top 10 QBs in the NFL (instead of #1 as he was in the mid-90s). With our young OL getting more experience and Jennings fully recovered, I expect Favre to have a year closer to '04 than to '06. He still shakes off would-be tacklers as well as anyone and still has a rifle for an arm. He does require a supporting cast now unlike in the past when he was able to complete passes to just about anyone.

    Am I dreaming? Should Favre be in there this year or is Rodgers our best chance to win games? I'm thinking along the lines of Favre's good enough to start for another year after this one, and possible one more after that, with a big IF, if he has a supporting cast, which is mainly a line to block for him. Driver is solid, and Jennings will develop. We just need a TE to step up and to bring back the screen pass occasionally.
     
  2. packerfan1245

    packerfan1245 Cheesehead

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    We brought in some other WR's to help Favre this year as well. I don't think Favre knows how much this defense will help him. I think hes is in for a treat :packbeer: :packbeer: :packbeer: :packbeer:
     
  3. PackFaninBucLand

    PackFaninBucLand Cheesehead

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    Agreed packerfan1245.

    I really think that Thompson realized that the Pack could have kept living close to the edge of the cap and going one and done in the playoffs until Favre retired.

    I am sure that Thompson reviewed many tapes to conclude, as many a fan had, that the Pack wasn't going to get very far without a near total retooling of the D. It was great watching the offense stack up the yards and the TDs but, at the same time, miserable watching the D get walked all over.

    Kudos to Thompson for recognizing it and, you're right, Favre may appreciate his mistakes covered up by a good defense. He will also be tickled to get back on the field much quicker. Hell, he may even stick around another year.
     
  4. Lare

    Lare Cheesehead

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    To me, the biggest deterioration I've seen in Brett Favre is in his reaction time. All too often, by the time it takes him to see a play unfolding and make the decision to pass the ball, the defense is able to see that and react to where the pass is being thrown. That is one of the main reasons McCarthy is having him switch to the higher percentage timing plays which don't require that split second reaction that Brett was known for 5-10 years ago. As long as Brett stays within himself and the gameplan, he can continue to perform at a high level.

    As to TT's actions in building a "good" defense, we shall see. Despite a lot of time, money and attention over the last two years, it's been average at best so far.
     
  5. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    There's no doubt that his skills are declining. But to me he is still in the top 10. His bad is still alot better then alot of teams starters.
    I think that if his WR's and TE's can show something this year, and the o line can give him some time, he can get close to what he was in the 90's.
    To me, he sure hasn't hit the wall yet.
     
  6. Heatherthepackgirl

    Heatherthepackgirl Cheesehead

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    Couldnt have said it better then Cheesy..
     
  7. kmac

    kmac Cheesehead

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    As much as I love Favre, his QB Rating, Completion Percentage, and TD:INT ratio have all been poor either one of the last 2 seasons or both of the last 2 seasons. 56% completions in a west coast offense, especially for a veteran QB who is used to a west coast offense is bad, no matter how you put it. However, we all know what kind of ability he has, and I hope he can bounce back this season.
     
  8. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    He has dropped for sure........but if his WR's can produce (more then just Driver doing well) then i think his numbers will rise also. A strong D i think can REALLY help this out, as he won't have to feel like he HAS to score everytime to keep the team in the game.
     
  9. Heatherthepackgirl

    Heatherthepackgirl Cheesehead

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    Favre probably isnt as mobile as he once was, but he still can throw a great ball and he is still in the top 10 QB's. There are some young QB's that cant match up to Favre. He just needs some help, he cant do it all by himself. I think he wants to win so badly that he takes chances and to me when we are down in points why not? He is still our best chance to win a game.
     
  10. dhpackr

    dhpackr Cheesehead

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    if #4 were throwing to DD, J-Walk, D. Jarrett I wonder what people would be writting

    b/c I don't feel managment has give brett anybody to throw the ball to, especially in the last 4 games of the season over the last three years
     
  11. Tileman

    Tileman Cheesehead

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    Favre was great, but his time has come and gone. He's is the lower 3rd of starting QB's and that's only likely to drop. His accuracy is in the toilet. There is no way he can win games in the playoff if that were to happen. His play over the last few years against better defenses has been terrible, and that's who you play against in the playoffs.

    This team needs to move on, I'm not saying Rodgers is the answer, but I'd like to see him given a shot.

    I'm still hoping Brett throws another tantrum and demands to be traded again, and they grant him his wish.

    It rarely ends good when players become bigger then the team.
     
  12. Tiger

    Tiger Cheesehead

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    good debut post man, i'd agree with alot of the points you made. Alot of the mistakes Favre made last year rested squarely on his shoulders.
     
  13. Tileman

    Tileman Cheesehead

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    Thank you, I'm not a Favre hater, I just believe his time has past for this young re-building team. I love what he did for the Packers, but sadly all good things must come to an end.
     
  14. warhawk

    warhawk Cheesehead

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    I think it has been the best thing for the Packers that Brett has stayed on. Having made the switch to MM after '05 it would not have been good to put Rodgers in there with a new offensive line.

    That would have been a recipe for disaster and could have hurt Rodgers to a point we never know if he could really play or not. Was it Carr's fault he has not produced or Houston's fault for never putting an "0" line in front of the guy? He only got sacked like 50 times a year.

    I though Favre handled the change in philosophy and personnel like the pro he is and better than most QB's young or old. Especially when you consider MM went AWAY from what Brett likes to do and made him tone it down.

    Many games last year the opposing team was successful in shutting down the run and that left Brett throwing it to DD with Jennings hurt and the TE's dropping everything thrown their way.

    No wonder the red zone offense stunk.

    Did you not see how well the passing game went when we were able to run it a little? I think we will be able to run the ball better this year with all the "0" line back and some game time under their belts. Brett's already talking about them.

    Brett is also one of the best ever at avoiding pressure which I believe was the best thing that could happen for that young "0" line's confidence.

    Brett's always been the MAN in Green Bay but how our defense plays and how well we run the ball this year will determine how far we go.

    Once all of this is in place there will be a time for Mr. Rodgers to step in and see what he can do but for now Brett took a lot off his back not having to come in there back in '05 or '06. I don't think he was ready and am pretty sure it would have been real ugly.

    Watch Oakland. They will start to lose and the pressure will mount to put Russell in there and with that lousy "0" line it could be the worst thing that could happen. He might be able to throw it fifty yards off his knees but not off his back.
     
  15. packerfan1245

    packerfan1245 Cheesehead

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    Warhawk, Russel is nasty he will do well.
    Carr is BAD.
     
  16. warhawk

    warhawk Cheesehead

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    I live in SEC country in Alabama. Russell is good but don't put him in the HOF just yet. He almost lost his starting job his junior year and was inconsistant in many games there.

    He can throw it forever but he's not that great on the mid range passes and it will be interesting to see how he plays on a bad team. LSU was a very talented team while he was there. I saw them win games DISPITE Russell playing lousy.

    It will be interesting to see how he reacts to the speed and all that goes on after the snap in the NFL. He experienced nothing like what he is about to see. Like I say don't put him up there just yet.

    The point is if the "0" line can't hold up ( and they are lousy) he will look like much less than a number one pick.
     
  17. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    It still amazes me how quickly some people want to get rid of the best QB the Packers have ever had, to turn to an absolute unknown. If the guy was total trash, then i'd agree with you. But he still has a heck of an arm, and IF he has someone (other then just Driver) to throw the ball to, and a LITTLE time to throw, he STILL can get the job done.
    I can't help but wonder how old Tileman is. I don't know, but i bet he is young and USED to having the Brett Favre at his prime.
    I lived through the 1970's and 80's where we would have KILLED to have a QB as good as Favre is NOW, at the end of his career. Look around the NFL and see just how many QB's have played, and been thrown aside by all the other teams since Favre came here. I for one, am NOT in a hurry to see how far the Packers drop after Brett retires.
    I remember at the end of Bart Starr's career, he was awful. He was a shell of his former self, plus had NO play makers left. He should have retired earlier. But Favre is not at that point yet. He still has the skills in my view.
     
  18. pack_in_black

    pack_in_black Cheesehead

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    Dude, I think we all get it. Even though Brett threw 18 picks, which ties him for 4th worst in the NFL, that wasn't his fault. Throwing late down the middle of the field is always management's fault, even though 25+ other QB's figured out how to tuck the ball away or throw it away. Maybe their management brought in better receivers to show their QB's how to do that. :roll:

    I think it's awesome how you repeatedly blame "management" for J-Walk leaving. They are no doubt partially to blame. But they share that blame with the ultimate team leader Brett Favre.
     
  19. Pack93z

    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

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    LOL... We **traded for John Hadl late in his career just to try to get someone like Brett. Me personally, I really don't want to relive the Randy Wright experience. Never again see the likes of a TJ Rubley fumble away a game. The Rich Campbell project or any other of the Whitehurst's that have taken the field over the years.

    Someday soon Mister Favre will hang them up, but lets not try to forget what we take for granted each time #4 steps onto the field.

    ** EDIT... I would hope we wouldn't draft a QB in a walker :)
     
  20. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    This is what i'm saying. I for one lived through the lean years. I'm in no hurry to push Favre off the field, until he SHOWS that he doesn't have "it" anymore.
    When we got Hadl, he was already WAAAAAAY over the hill, and halfway up the next. That was a HUGE blunder. Favre, in my eyes at least, is not washed up yet.
    Now.....he may show this coming season that he's done, but i would NOT bet against him!
     
  21. Pack93z

    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

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    Cheesey.... couldn't agree more :thumbsup:
     
  22. warhawk

    warhawk Cheesehead

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    Let's not forget Walker himself for his part which is where the most blame should go in the first place. It takes a lot of guts to start making demands two years out when you have had one good season. He wanted a deal that was one sided. Good for him. Not the Packers. Those kind of deals don't fly often. It would be one thing if he outperformed his contract over the first three years. He did not. He was actually overpaid for his production overall.

    We had DD who made the Pro-Bowl and JJ who made the All-Rookie team and KRob and others at the #3 which normally catches what? Thirty catches a year or so? Brett's got guys to throw it to.


    I am a Brett Favre fan but Brett Favre needs to worry about Brett Favre and nobody else. He will have guys that can catch it. He needs to worry about the wide open guys he's missed including not seeing people standing in the endzone and stop throwing that god darn deep ball late down the middle like Pack_in_ black is talking about.

    I don't want to dog him because I love the guy but he's got his own plate to clean up before "extra helpings" will have any real impact. He will find guys open if he just makes the progressions and looks for them.

    It can be aggravating because he is one of the FEW QB's that has the ability to check down to the third guy if he would just DO IT instead of forcing it. Most QB's can't even think about the third option but often those are the guys wide open.
     
  23. Tileman

    Tileman Cheesehead

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    Never ceases to amaze me on how Favre is totally given a pass for his sub-standard play, and the blame is cast onto his teammates. His passer rating stinks along with his completion %, and his red zone performance. He continually misses open receivers and throws into triple coverage.

    I just don't understand what some think a 37/38 yr old QB is going to do for this team. Especially a QB that doesn't want to come to mandatory mini-camp, and when he does he says he doesn't want to be there and he's bored. Doesn't work out in the off season like Manning, Palmer, just to name a couple. Basically has no interest in building team chemistry.

    He only wants to be around for Sundays, and in todays game, that's not nearly good enough.
     
  24. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    I see your point and I agree with it for the most part. But it did work out pretty well for Charles Woodson. He rarely practice and showed up big in games.
     
  25. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

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    That favre is still a human being and his natural decline is expected.

    sorry
     

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