Disagreement in organization about Will Fuller

[Pokerbrat2000]

Just for the record, I have never mentioned anything about believing that Love won't be able to develop into a decent quarterback in the NFL.

Jessh, then why are we debating any of this?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

It took me some time to find it but here's evidence Rodgers was the backup from the get-go.

https://nflcdns.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamecenter/28535/DET_Gamebook.pdf

Nall was back in his hometown that day to be with his wife during the delivery of their baby daughter Captina, I believe she weighed 6 lbs 12 ounces.

 

[GleefulGary]

It's a fact that Love hasn't moved past Boyle on the depth chart.



Just for the record, I have never mentioned anything about believing that Love won't be able to develop into a decent quarterback in the NFL. I'm concerned about his decision making and that he threw more interceptions than any other quarterback in the FBS last season but he might still live up to expectations being a first rounder.

There's no doubt that a rookie at another position would have made a larger impact this season than him. I don't kniw if that would have been good enough to improve the Packers' Super Biel chances by a decent margin but it for surr would have been better than their first rounder being inactive every single game.



It took me some time to find it but here's evidence Rodgers was the backup from the get-go.

https://nflcdns.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamecenter/28535/DET_Gamebook.pdf

Good find Wimm! You were right.



This is not a response to you, just kind of fits the discussion. Just to clarify.

Jordan Love’s last college coach got fired this week after starting 0-3.

Jordan Love’s last OC went to Minnesota this year. His QB is attempting roughly the same amount of passes per game, averaging two yards less per attempt, completion percentage has gone down 5 points, and his TD:INT ratio has gone from 4.2:1 to 1.5:1.

This is not me absolving Love or his poor decision making last year. More just pointing out the mounting evidence that the talent he played with was bad, and the coaching he had was also bad, and certainly did not help him.

 

[GleefulGary]

Jessh, then why are we debating any of this?

Nothing better to do?

 

[PikeBadger]

Good find Wimm! You were right.



This is not a response to you, just kind of fits the discussion. Just to clarify.

Jordan Love’s last college coach got fired this week after starting 0-3.

Jordan Love’s last OC went to Minnesota this year. His QB is attempting roughly the same amount of passes per game, averaging two yards less per attempt, completion percentage has gone down 5 points, and his TD:INT ratio has gone from 4.2:1 to 1.5:1.

This is not me absolving Love or his poor decision making last year. More just pointing out the mounting evidence that the talent he played with was bad, and the coaching he had was also bad, and certainly did not help him.

Good find Wimm! You were right.



This is not a response to you, just kind of fits the discussion. Just to clarify.

Jordan Love’s last college coach got fired this week after starting 0-3.

Jordan Love’s last OC went to Minnesota this year. His QB is attempting roughly the same amount of passes per game, averaging two yards less per attempt, completion percentage has gone down 5 points, and his TD:INT ratio has gone from 4.2:1 to 1.5:1.

This is not me absolving Love or his poor decision making last year. More just pointing out the mounting evidence that the talent he played with was bad, and the coaching he had was also bad, and certainly did not help him.

Gary Andersen is/was such a stubborn clown car. Glad he got canned.

edit: I’d like to hear Jordan Love’s thoughts on this.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Gary Andersen is/was such a stubborn clown car. Glad he got canned.

edit: I’d like to hear Jordan Love’s thoughts on this.

He should have stayed at the UW, but I think he left due to being frustrated with Wisconsin's high admissions standards for athletes. Guessing a large percentage of the coaches in college football might say that.

 

[PikeBadger]

He should have stayed at the UW, but I think he left due to being frustrated with Wisconsin's high admissions standards for athletes. Guessing a large percentage of the coaches in college football might say that.

Really dumb of him not to heed Alvarez’s warning about those juco’s and marginal qualifiers that Andersen loved to recruit. In retrospect, I think everyone including Alvarez is glad he’s gone. Chryst has done an excellent job imo.

 

[GleefulGary]

Really dumb of him not to heed Alvarez’s warning about those juco’s and marginal qualifiers that Andersen loved to recruit. In retrospect, I think everyone including Alvarez is glad he’s gone. Chryst has done an excellent job imo.

Speaking of the Badgers, where can I gloat about Jonathan Taylor being yet another Badger RB to follow in their long history of overrated backs?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

You don't think Love will end up being any good, I get that.

I have never posted anything about believing that Love will end up being a bust but mentioned why I'm concerned about his chances of becoming a decent quarterback at the pro level.

It's no secret that I didn't like Gutekunst spending this year's first rounder on a quarterback though.

I would never have traded up for Love. But if he had been there at 30, I'd would of had a hard time passing him up. He landed in the perfect situation just as Rodgers did. He can sit for 3 years and learn. I believe that drastically shifts the odds in the Packers favor compared to what they would be if Rodgers was gonna retire after this season.

The problem being that the Packers can't take advantage of having a quarterback on a rookie contract if Love sits for three seasons.

In addition Rodgers has been pretty adamant about not planning to retire anytime soon.

Jessh, then why are we debating any of this?

Because Gutekunst shouldn't have spent this year's first rounder on a quarterback by any means.

Nall was back in his hometown that day to be with his wife during the delivery of their baby daughter Captina, I believe she weighed 6 lbs 12 ounces.

I feel terrible for his wife. With McNall being inactive for all 16 games that season it seems the delivery of Captina lasted at least 17 weeks

 

[Heyjoe4]

Speaking of the Badgers, where can I gloat about Jonathan Taylor being yet another Badger RB to follow in their long history of overrated backs?

There certainly is a trend, starting with Ron Dayne (sp?) but probably preceding him. I guess Melvin Gordon has done well, but he's been a PITA to work with, and still can't hold a candle to a guy like Jacobs of the Raiders, or Aaron Jones for that matter.

I don't get it. Is it because of the Badgers' relatively soft schedule versus Alabama and their ilk? That wouldn't explain why Badger O linemen go on to do well in the NFL. And generally, the Badgers seem to produce their share of NFL talent. The RBs don't look overrated coming out of UW, but they have certainly underperformed at the pro level.

Where is Jonathan Taylor anyway? I don't even know, which kinda makes your point.

 

[PikeBadger]

There certainly is a trend, starting with Ron Dayne (sp?) but probably preceding him. I guess Melvin Gordon has done well, but he's been a PITA to work with, and still can't hold a candle to a guy like Jacobs of the Raiders, or Aaron Jones for that matter.

I don't get it. Is it because of the Badgers' relatively soft schedule versus Alabama and their ilk? That wouldn't explain why Badger O linemen go on to do well in the NFL. And generally, the Badgers seem to produce their share of NFL talent. The RBs don't look overrated coming out of UW, but they have certainly underperformed at the pro level.

Where is Jonathan Taylor anyway? I don't even know, which kinda makes your point.

Wisconsin currently (as of September 8) has 25 players on NFL rosters. I’d bet a half dozen at least are former walk-ons. This ranks as a tie for 19th with UCLA. This greatly exceeds their average recruiting rankings which I’d guess to be in the high 30’s or low 40’s on a 10 year average. Their average end of year ranking average is probably top 15. Tells me the Badger coaching staff does a good job of identifying and coaching players.

 

[GleefulGary]

There certainly is a trend, starting with Ron Dayne (sp?) but probably preceding him. I guess Melvin Gordon has done well, but he's been a PITA to work with, and still can't hold a candle to a guy like Jacobs of the Raiders, or Aaron Jones for that matter.

I don't get it. Is it because of the Badgers' relatively soft schedule versus Alabama and their ilk? That wouldn't explain why Badger O linemen go on to do well in the NFL. And generally, the Badgers seem to produce their share of NFL talent. The RBs don't look overrated coming out of UW, but they have certainly underperformed at the pro level.

Where is Jonathan Taylor anyway? I don't even know, which kinda makes your point.

Lol. I’m mainly teasing/provoking the many Badger fans here.

Scout the player, not the school, is still a valid phrase. Wisconsin has a tremendous scheme and OL that lends itself towards RB’s doing well. Their level of competition is also not so great. Taylor should end up being a fine back, just not as good as people thought.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Wisconsin currently (as of September 8) has 25 players on NFL rosters. I’d bet a half dozen at least are former walk-ons. This ranks as a tie for 19th with UCLA. This greatly exceeds their average recruiting rankings which I’d guess to be in the high 30’s or low 40’s on a 10 year average. Their average end of year ranking average is probably top 15. Tells me the Badger coaching staff does a good job of identifying and coaching players.

Thanks for the numbers and analysis Pike. The stats do point to an over-performing coaching staff. Interesting stuff.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Lol. I’m mainly teasing/provoking the many Badger fans here.

Scout the player, not the school, is still a valid phrase. Wisconsin has a tremendous scheme and OL that lends itself towards RB’s doing well. Their level of competition is also not so great. Taylor should end up being a fine back, just not as good as people thought.

I'm a Badger fan, just not the raving kind! And that's a good point about the O line, which, over time, has maybe helped to produce RBs that look good at the collegiate level, and not so good in the NFL. Ah well, the O-line, college or pro, never gets quite the appropriate recognition. Case in point is the Packers this year.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I think it's definitely Murphy, he's the common denominator.

It was Murphy who made this crappy "tri-fecta" where LeFleur, Gute, and Ball are essentially all equal.

If it was the old way Gute would have made the deal. I think Murphy is forcing them to be unanimous on the trade but for some reason LeFleur and/or Ball have cold feet. But again that wouldn't matter if Murphy hadn't changed the power structure. It's for the GM to build the team and the coach to make said team a winner.

An excellent example of the problem with this organization structure. Now that I think about it, maybe that's the reason for the lousy draft this year (IMO). The GM should have unfettered control over personnel, or at a minimum, only have to deal with Murphy. MLF and Ball can have input, and should, but requiring consensus among three guys (actually four, counting Murphy) is going to lead to a lot of inaction.

But as for Fuller, I'm not in favor of giving up high-draft capital, and the current cap space situation probably prevented it anyway.

 

[PikeBadger]

An excellent example of the problem with this organization structure. Now that I think about it, maybe that's the reason for the lousy draft this year (IMO). The GM should have unfettered control over personnel, or at a minimum, only have to deal with Murphy. MLF and Ball can have input, and should, but requiring consensus among three guys (actually four, counting Murphy) is going to lead to a lot of inaction.

But as for Fuller, I'm not in favor of giving up high-draft capital, and the current cap space situation probably prevented it anyway.

I personally prefer inaction to bad actions. Seattle, Houston and Los Angeles all are without a 1st round draft pick next year because of past actions. I imagine they could make good use of that lost pick.

 

[PikeBadger]

Thanks for the numbers and analysis Pike. The stats do point to an over-performing coaching staff. Interesting stuff.

They’ve become a very well oiled machine. They know what is available and how to make the most of what they can get. They don’t waste much time spinning wheels going after players they aren’t going to get or guys that won’t fit well into the program’s culture.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I personally prefer inaction to bad actions. Seattle, Houston and Los Angeles all are without a 1st round draft pick next year because of past actions. I imagine they could make good use of that lost pick.

Totally agree. I was very happy about the non-trade a few years ago for Khalil Mack. Maybe it's because I'm old enough to remember the Pack's disastrous trade for QB John Hadl many years ago. That still stings.

Out of curiosity, who did Seattle and LA get in exchange for their first round picks? I think it's crazy to give up first-round capital for any player.

 

[elcid]

Totally agree. I was very happy about the non-trade a few years ago for Khalil Mack. Maybe it's because I'm old enough to remember the Pack's disastrous trade for QB John Hadl many years ago. That still stings.

Out of curiosity, who did Seattle and LA get in exchange for their first round picks? I think it's crazy to give up first-round capital for any player.

It was a package deal of some kind for Jamaal Adams I believe

 

[RRyder]

Totally agree. I was very happy about the non-trade a few years ago for Khalil Mack. Maybe it's because I'm old enough to remember the Pack's disastrous trade for QB John Hadl many years ago. That still stings.

Out of curiosity, who did Seattle and LA get in exchange for their first round picks? I think it's crazy to give up first-round capital for any player.

Seattle Adams and LA Ramsey

 

[Sunshinepacker]

People also forget the trade that Seattle pulled off for Minkah...one I still hold against Gute because it was an AMAZING opportunity to take advantage of the Dolphins being idiots.

 

[PikeBadger]

Lol. I’m mainly teasing/provoking the many Badger fans here.

Scout the player, not the school, is still a valid phrase. Wisconsin has a tremendous scheme and OL that lends itself towards RB’s doing well. Their level of competition is also not so great. Taylor should end up being a fine back, just not as good as people thought.

Mostly agree but if I were GM I’d tell my regional scout to give me a very thorough rundown on Iowa’s draft eligibles. I think Ferentz instills a general toughness, physicality and persistence to the echo of the whistle that exceeds that of his peers.

 

[GleefulGary]

People also forget the trade that Seattle pulled off for Minkah...one I still hold against Gute because it was an AMAZING opportunity to take advantage of the Dolphins being idiots.

This must have happened in one of those alternate realities or something.

 

[RRyder]

People also forget the trade that Seattle pulled off for Minkah...one I still hold against Gute because it was an AMAZING opportunity to take advantage of the Dolphins being idiots.

Minkah was traded to Pittsburgh and it was for what alot of people thought was going to be a HIGH 1st round pick.

Unless your talking about someone other Minkah other then Minkah Fitzpatrick

 

[Deleted member 6794]

An excellent example of the problem with this organization structure. Now that I think about it, maybe that's the reason for the lousy draft this year (IMO). The GM should have unfettered control over personnel, or at a minimum, only have to deal with Murphy. MLF and Ball can have input, and should, but requiring consensus among three guys (actually four, counting Murphy) is going to lead to a lot of inaction.

I'm convinced Gutekunst had complete control over this year's draft. While MLF's input might be valuable to some degree Ball and Murphy better not have any influence on the team's draft board.