Disagreement in organization about Will Fuller

[GleefulGary]

Now explain refusing to give to a 2nd for Robby Anderson last year or Fuller this year. Ppl ignore that fact that, if the Packers let either walk after the trade, they get the compensatory 3rd round pick. So, basically, you're moving back 30 spots to improve the offense massively. Gute didn't think this team was as good as it is and started planning for the future. You say rookies wouldn't help this year, well, who's helping next year then? You gotta get going guys in to develop and the Packers didn't do that at receiver, dline, or corner. That's a problem.

Robby Anderson signed a 10/year contract. I don’t think that’s getting a 3rd round comp pick.

Fuller, maybe, but with his injury history I’m skeptical. Plus that pick would not be for this draft, but the next. I would’ve traded a 3rd for him, but absolutely not a 2nd.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

You don’t know how Love will do and neither do I. We do know he ain’t helping our team this year in any capacity. This is not fair to a talent like Rodgers.

Did you say the same thing when the Packers drafted Rodgers? Was that fair to Favre at the time? You are correct, nobody knows how Love will do, however the Packers used a first round pick on him because they expect great things out of him. I'm going to bow to their knowledge over most peoples hand wringing that they "don't like the pick", until Love proves one side to be correct.

 

[GleefulGary]

Did you say the same thing when the Packers drafted Rodgers? Was that fair to Favre at the time? You are correct, nobody knows how Love will do, however the Packers used a first round pick on him because they expect great things out of him. I'm going to bow to their knowledge over most peoples hand wringing that they "don't like the pick", until Love proves one side to be correct.

Couldn’t have said it better myself.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Because remember, I'm talking about someone having the opinion that the reason Gute didn't trade for a WR was because he didn't want one or he didn't want to admit he was wrong in the draft. I think that is beyond silly, as he's told us multiple times they've been looking for WR's in the draft and via trade.

I agree that's a silly argument to make.

Even with these JAGs at WR outside of Adams our offense is still one of the top 3 scoring offenses in the league. IMO we have to fix this defense in order for us to be a legit SB team.

The Packers are one of the highest scoring teams partly because they have faced terrible defenses aside of the Bucs.

I agree the defense needs to improve as well for the team to be considered a legit Super Bowl contender.

I disagree with you there, the mere fact that they were coming off a 13-3 Season and didn't lose a ton of guys in Free Agency, should be enough to feel comfortable with your team at least making the playoffs.

True, Gutekunst should have felt confident about the team's chances of making the playoffs. This year's draft left the impression he wasn't though in my opinion.

I doubt any of us believed Love was going to be the #2 guy without a normal training camp and preseason this year.

There are rookie quarterbacks starting thos year with some success yet there are several posters claiming it was impossible for Love to move past Boyle on the depth chart

Now explain refusing to give to a 2nd for Robby Anderson last year or Fuller this year. Ppl ignore that fact that, if the Packers let either walk after the trade, they get the compensatory 3rd round pick. So, basically, you're moving back 30 spots to improve the offense massively.

In addition the move would have cost the Packers $5.38 million of cap space as well.

 

[Pugger]

I agree that's a silly argument to make.



The Packers are one of the highest scoring teams partly because they have faced terrible defenses aside of the Bucs.

I agree the defense needs to improve as well for the team to be considered a legit Super Bowl contender.



True, Gutekunst should have felt confident about the team's chances of making the playoffs. This year's draft left the impression he wasn't though in my opinion.



There are rookie quarterbacks starting thos year with some success yet there are several posters claiming it was impossible for Love to move past Boyle on the depth chart



In addition the move would have cost the Packers $5.38 million of cap space as well.

Of course the teams with those hot young QBs don't have a HOF QB already on the roster.

 

[JK64]

I bet I know what you guys were thinking when MVS dropped that first pass.... The first td pass to MVS was a good job.

 

[thequick12]

Just reading on Twitter that there is disagreement within the organization about the team trading for Will Fuller. I'm on Will Fuller's twitter as well and it appears he thinks he's about to be moved.

I'm wondering what this disagreement means, is it Gutey vs. LaFleur or is Murphy sticking his neck out.

I'm inclined to think that mlf was strongly in favor of will fuller. He was a coach at notre dame when fuller was there.

I could see both gute and ball being against it. But since it fell apart over the Packers refusal to offer more than a 4th and the Texans unwillingness to take less than a 2nd round pick because they figured they'd get a 3rd round compensatory pick either way.

It seems it is most likely it was gute...I would of just offered em a 3rd at least, maybe they would of taken it because it would be before they're compensatory.

 

[sschind]

In addition the move would have cost the Packers $5.38 million of cap space as well.

That's a point I don't think I have seen made before. In addition to giving up a second round pick for a player who we very likely wouldn't be able to afford next year, we would have lost an additional 5+ million dollar in cap space that might be used to resign Jones or Bahktiari. If we don't spend that money this year we can roll it over. That makes me even happier we didn't make the trade.

I completely understand the desire to improve our WR group and I do think Fuller would have done that. On the other hand instant gratification needs to be measured against possible ramifications for the future. I think making the trade for Fuller would have been too costly.

 

[tynimiller]

Numerous of us brought up the fiscal suicide of this move....shoot that's when we got educated on the magic bean soup one can drink to "manipulate the cap" all easy peasy like.

 

[thequick12]

Il

There are rookie quarterbacks starting thos year with some success yet there are several posters claiming it was impossible for Love to move past Boyle on the depth chart

In addition the move would have cost the Packers $5.38 million of cap space as well.

If mlf really wanted fuller I would of done it despite the 5.38 million and I would of offered then a 3rd which is still higher than any compensatory pick no matter what. Arguing in a depressed free agent market fuller would likely only fetch a 4th round compensatory pick if that

And yeah there are rookies starting and playing very well everyone taken in the first except love is now starting. That doesn't mean love couldn't be starting and doing well too. It just means hes taking a different path than those 3 guys. A path that just like rodgers when he came out seems better suited to love.

Love could of moved ahead of boyle but with the lack of an off season and no real need to save a roster spot on the 53 with the covid rules I'm sure they felt more comfortable with boyle. Just like they felt more comfortable with I think it was craig ball as the backup to Favre during Rodgers rookie season

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Of course the teams with those hot young QBs don't have a HOF QB already on the roster.

I didn't mention anything about Love challenging Rodgers for the starting job this season. But moving past an undrafted free agent who has more career kneel downs than pass attempts shouldn't have been too much to ask from a first rounder.

And yeah there are rookies starting and playing very well everyone taken in the first except love is now starting. That doesn't mean love couldn't be starting and doing well too.

Just like they felt more comfortable with I think it was craig ball as the backup to Favre during Rodgers rookie season

I'm not suggesting Love will be a bust because he hasn't been able to move past Boyle on the depth chart by any means. It's concerning in my opinion though.

Just for the record, Rodgers was Favre's backup from the get-go.

 

[thequick12]

Just for the record, Rodgers was Favre's backup from the get-go.

Craig nall was more accomplished than Tim boyle but I'm pretty sure nall began the season as the number 2 qb. Rodgers may have taken over that distinction but I believe coming out of training camp it was nall. I guess it was 15 years ago but that's what I remember. Would have to find a broadcast of the first game to see I guess,maybe a box score

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Craig nall was more accomplished than Tim boyle but I'm pretty sure nall began the season as the number 2 qb. Rodgers may have taken over that distinction but I believe coming out of training camp it was nall. I guess it was 15 years ago but that's what I remember. Would have to find a broadcast of the first game to see I guess,maybe a box score

Rodgers was the only other quarterback aside of Favre who had a pass attempt in 2005 with his first snaps coming in week 5.

I'm pretty confident in saying that he was the backup from the get-go.

 

[sschind]

I didn't mention anything about Love challenging Rodgers for the starting job this season. But moving past an undrafted free agent who has more career kneel downs than pass attempts shouldn't have been too much to ask from a first rounder.



I'm not suggesting Love will be a bust because he hasn't been able to move past Boyle on the depth chart by any means. It's concerning in my opinion though.

Just for the record, Rodgers was Favre's backup from the get-go.

I'm with you. I can't believe all the valuable snaps Love is missing this season. That could really come back to bite us in the *** if he ever has to come in and kneel down.

There have been cases in the NFL where a third string QB has jumped a second stringer if one or the other is forced to start.

It would not surprise me at all if Rodgers got injured during a game and would be out for several games that Love would get the start. Maybe the coaches feel that as long as neither backup is getting the reps during the week Boyle is the better option coming off the bench cold but with a weeks worth of work with the first team Love would be the guy. We don't know that.

It may not be too much to ask for him to beat out an undrafted free agent with more kneel downs than pass attempts but for all we know he hasn't been asked to. No one expected Boyle or Love to start or even take meaningful snaps this year but
if we are forced to start a QB other than Rodgers this year and its Boyle instead of Love then maybe I will be a tiny bit concerned...but I doubt it.

 

[GBkrzygrl]

Based on what we have seen through 7 games, the Packers are just not good enough to win a Super Bowl. It’s frustrating that after drafting no one of significant value in the draft to help the team this season, the Packers also couldn’t find a way to improve the team at the deadline to improve the chances of winning a super bowl.

Other teams have found a way to make deals. I don’t know what the particulars were in regards to Fuller, and I’m not saying Gute did the wrong thing necessarily, I’m just saying I am highly frustrated because the Packers are close to being upper echelon, yet very little is being done to put us over the top.

Gute is starting to remind me of TT.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'm with you. I can't believe all the valuable snaps Love is missing this season. That could really come back to bite us in the *** if he ever has to come in and kneel down.

There have been cases in the NFL where a third string QB has jumped a second stringer if one or the other is forced to start.

It would not surprise me at all if Rodgers got injured during a game and would be out for several games that Love would get the start. Maybe the coaches feel that as long as neither backup is getting the reps during the week Boyle is the better option coming off the bench cold but with a weeks worth of work with the first team Love would be the guy. We don't know that.

It may not be too much to ask for him to beat out an undrafted free agent with more kneel downs than pass attempts but for all we know he hasn't been asked to. No one expected Boyle or Love to start or even take meaningful snaps this year but
if we are forced to start a QB other than Rodgers this year and its Boyle instead of Love then maybe I will be a tiny bit concerned...but I doubt it.

Well said, I was just about to be a keyboard warrior and post pretty much the same thing. I would add that we are also talking about 2 different teams. The Packers were pretty mediocre when Rodgers was drafted, they went 4-12 his first season. Also, Farve's long time backup, Doug Peterson had just retired before Rodgers was drafted. The current Packers just came out of a 13-3 season and a very unusual preseason of no games, short camp, etc. Doesn't surprise me that if Rodgers goes down someone who is in his 3rd year with the team and the 2nd year in the offense is going to be the first guy off the bench during what could be a very meaningful game.

The last part of this that bothers me about comparing Jordan Love to Tim Boyle, it would seem that people are making the assumption that Tim Boyle completely sucks and has made no progress in his time as a Packer. How do we know this?

 

[GleefulGary]

Rodgers was the only other quarterback aside of Favre who had a pass attempt in 2005 with his first snaps coming in week 5.

I'm pretty confident in saying that he was the backup from the get-go.

This is just not how I remember it. Rodgers was not impressive at all his first pre-season.

I tried a quick google search and couldn’t find much. The only thing I found talking remotely close to the opening day depth chart is as this:

https://www.footballguys.com/05teamreport-gnb.php

 

[GleefulGary]

FWIW, post 2019 season, Bob McGinn said Boyle was the best backup in our division.

He’s not some bum. He’s played well in the pre-season games.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

It would not surprise me at all if Rodgers got injured during a game and would be out for several games that Love would get the start. Maybe the coaches feel that as long as neither backup is getting the reps during the week Boyle is the better option coming off the bench cold but with a weeks worth of work with the first team Love would be the guy. We don't know that.

That's just a random theory without any evidence to back it up. If the coaching staff would consider Love the better quarterback at this point I'm quite sure he would be the one active on game day.

The last part of this that bothers me about comparing Jordan Love to Tim Boyle, it would seem that people are making the assumption that Tim Boyle completely sucks and has made no progress in his time as a Packer. How do we know this?

If Boyle has made enough progress to be a decent backup in the NFL it was even more mind-boggling to spend a first rounder on the position.

This is just not how I remember it. Rodgers was not impressive at all his first pre-season.

I tried a quick google search and couldn’t find much. The only thing I found talking remotely close to the opening day depth chart is as this:

https://www.footballguys.com/05teamreport-gnb.php

Rodgers being the first quarterback coming off the bench in week 5 strongly suggests he was the backup from the get-go.

FWIW, post 2019 season, Bob McGinn said Boyle was the best backup in our division.

He’s not some bum. He’s played well in the pre-season games.

A lot of other quarterbacks played well in preseason games facing second and third stringers. They never made successful NFL quarterbacks though.

 

[sschind]

That's just a random theory without any evidence to back it up. If the coaching staff would consider Love the better quarterback at this point I'm quite sure he would be the one active on game day.



If Boyle has made enough progress to be a decent backup in the NFL it was even more mind-boggling to spend a first rounder on the position.



Rodgers being the first quarterback coming off the bench in week 5 strongly suggests he was the backup from the get-go.



A lot of other quarterbacks played well in preseason games facing second and third stringers. They never made successful NFL quarterbacks though.

Mine is a theory yours is an opinion. I guess neither one of us has any facts. At least we are on even footing.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

If Boyle has made enough progress to be a decent backup in the NFL it was even more mind-boggling to spend a first rounder on the position.

Doug Peterson was a decent backup, he wasn't considered the next franchise QB. I could probably list a 100 "decent backups", that doesn't mean you sit pat and if a guy your organization views as their next franchise QB is sitting there in the draft, you don't take him.

This really just boils (pun not intended) down to 2 things. First, you don't think Love will amount to anything, the Packers do. Second, you felt the Packers should have used the pick on an instant contributor that would help them to win a SB this year. How has that worked out with our first round pick in previous years? What position in the NFL has the biggest upside if said player turns into a FHOF'er?

At this time, none of us know how things will turn out with Love, so its disappointing to hear Packer fans talking about him in terms that are so negative when the guy hasn't even taken a snap in a preseason or regular season game for the Packers.

 

[GleefulGary]

Rodgers being the first quarterback coming off the bench in week 5 strongly suggests he was the backup from the get-go.



.

No. It suggests he was the backup starting in at least week 5. You don’t know more than that, and the only media you and I have found regarding it from 2005 suggests that he was not the opening day backup.

 

[Dantés]

Robby Anderson signed a 10/year contract. I don’t think that’s getting a 3rd round comp pick.

Fuller, maybe, but with his injury history I’m skeptical. Plus that pick would not be for this draft, but the next. I would’ve traded a 3rd for him, but absolutely not a 2nd.

For this last draft, the smallest contract that merited a 3rd rounder was Rodger Saffold's 11M/season.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Mine is a theory yours is an opinion. I guess neither one of us has any facts.

It's a fact that Love hasn't moved past Boyle on the depth chart.

This really just boils (pun not intended) down to 2 things. First, you don't think Love will amount to anything, the Packers do. Second, you felt the Packers should have used the pick on an instant contributor that would help them to win a SB this year. How has that worked out with our first round pick in previous years? What position in the NFL has the biggest upside if said player turns into a FHOF'er?

Just for the record, I have never mentioned anything about believing that Love won't be able to develop into a decent quarterback in the NFL. I'm concerned about his decision making and that he threw more interceptions than any other quarterback in the FBS last season but he might still live up to expectations being a first rounder.

There's no doubt that a rookie at another position would have made a larger impact this season than him. I don't kniw if that would have been good enough to improve the Packers' Super Biel chances by a decent margin but it for surr would have been better than their first rounder being inactive every single game.

No. It suggests he was the backup starting in at least week 5. You don’t know more than that, and the only media you and I have found regarding it from 2005 suggests that he was not the opening day backup.

It took me some time to find it but here's evidence Rodgers was the backup from the get-go.

https://nflcdns.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamecenter/28535/DET_Gamebook.pdf

 

[thequick12]

Rodgers was the only other quarterback aside of Favre who had a pass attempt in 2005 with his first snaps coming in week 5.

I'm pretty confident in saying that he was the backup from the get-go.

I found one article that says nall was going to be the backup for the season opener but it's in no way proof.

But yes I know Rodgers is the only other qb to have pass attempts that season. That does not prove he was the opening day backup. I just feel like nall beat out Rodgers coming out of camp...

Either way it's irrelevant really. You don't think Love will end up being any good, I get that. The odds are definitely in your favor there, heavily, especially with Rodgers already defing heavy odds to be so successful as brett Favres successor.

I would never have traded up for Love. But if he had been there at 30, I'd would of had a hard time passing him up. He landed in the perfect situation just as Rodgers did. He can sit for 3 years and learn. I believe that drastically shifts the odds in the Packers favor compared to what they would be if Rodgers was gonna retire after this season.There's no arguing Love has all the physical tools and yes I understand we don't know if he has the mental part but if he does the Packers stand to have close to 50 consecutive years of ridiculous quarterback play...