Defending Janis

[adambr2]

Wolf did the same thing with Driver and Schroeder. Having superior athletic ability buys you more time as long as you show progress. Both Schroeder & Driver were very very raw coming into the league. So was Cordarelle Patterson and the German WR the Vikings just drafted. It takes time.

I know what you are saying, but I still have to say, I bet the Vikings were hoping to get more out of their 1st round pick than a special teams player going into his 4th season.

 

[RRyder]

I think the only thing this guy is missing is opportunity. Rodgers basicly black balling him, really ticks me off. He was a great deep threat when our team desperately needed one... So either we are playing it slow so he doesnt ask for 10mil/yr before he masters the whole route tree? Or are brutally stubborn to the point of shooting ourselves in the foot... Everyone makes excuses for the reasons why Janis didnt play. But seriously, he was our answer, and we blatently ignored it until he was the only guy left to play. And he blasts one of the best defenses in the league for 2 TDs, 7 catches for 145 yds??? Lets not forget when he did that our Oline was struggling, Lacy was struggling. Rodgers was struggling. and the TEs were struggling... He was the only bright spot on a dreary beat up offense...

Why? because he doesnt run sharp enough routes for rodgers??? I think that logic is ignorant of what he does do well. And IMO, an excuse to keep our reserves great until Jordy starts regressing.

That's it I'm done.

If this is where this thread is going it might as well be locked. Everything in this post is either flat out categorically wrong, simply unbelievable confirmation bias or ignorance to the realities of the situation.

I'm not even going to spend time arguing the points either because it isn't even worth discussing if people believe this. I'm out

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

This demonstrates a lack of understanding of how most modern offenses work and why crisp routes are at the very least "strongly desired" and often "required."

Im the type to use peoples strengths to the best advantage. And try to work around the weaknesses with strategy... To explain how a sharp route determines weither a player is 5 yards to close/far down the field when a pass is coming into a specific area. Its important obviously. But to black ball him and force Montgomery back too soon. Play a slow ineffective Jones. And force feed a floundering Adams all season... Even play Abby ahead of him, who is average AT BEST!!! When they have a guy who can stretch the field sitting the pine... Explain again how I dont understand the basics, and I will re-explain how you ignore the obvious.... Again..

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

That's it I'm done.

If this is where this thread is going it might as well be locked. Everything in this post is either flat out categorically wrong, simply unbelievable confirmation bias or ignorance to the realities of the situation.

I'm not even going to spend time arguing the points either because it isn't even worth discussing if people believe this. I'm out

That time of the month ?

 

[Poppa San]

That's it I'm done.

If this is where this thread is going it might as well be locked. Everything in this post is either flat out categorically wrong, simply unbelievable confirmation bias or ignorance to the realities of the situation.

I'm not even going to spend time arguing the points either because it isn't even worth discussing if people believe this. I'm out

IOW the internet in a nutshell.

 

[Poppa San]

That time of the month ?

Now now play nice.

 

[OldSchool101]

So stop defending him. His playing time or lack thereof will speak volumes as to how the coaching staff feels. It is time for him to put up or his advocates to shut up.

With all due respect Poppa, we are in a thread called "defending Janis" and I like Jeff.
As a positive guy, I'm Not really sure why so many Fellow Packer fans feel it's necessary to stifle the support for One of our own players.

 

[yooperpackfan]

Opposing defenses will have a difficult time defending Janis this year since he has a breakout season ahead.

 

[mradtke66]

Explain again how I dont understand the basics, and I will re-explain how you ignore the obvious.... Again..

You missed the part of reply that covers it. In summary:

1) You can only work around Janis' sloppy routes more or less one way: The Go Route. Which is a low percentage play.

2) Because he cannot run other routes well, he is unnecessarily easy to defend against: Play off, soft man. "Surrender" the routes that 15 yards or less because he'll telegraph you the route he's going to run.

3) Because of the time required to develop a Go route, Rodgers won't have many opportunities to attempt the throw. (This is not an indictment of our O-Line. This is a truism for the entire league.) Looping back to 1), few of those attempts will even be caught. It's a hard throw.

I understand what you're proposing. The problem is Janis has no counter punch. His speed can be neutralized on a down by down basis. You cannot strategize around that. EVERYTHING in football has a counter move, even the counter moves. It's the circular nature of the sport. Janis cannot counter the counter to his speedy Go.

Similarly, I want the light bulb to go on for Janis. I was tentatively excited about him from his draft and got pretty excited after his first pre-season. He's dripping with physical talent. If he get's it, and I mean really gets it, he'll be the #3 at worst. But he is not there yet.

Its important obviously.

No, it is CRITICAL. If a receiver runs the wrong route, or does so poorly, interceptions can happen.

The Arizona game was "Go long and I'll get it to ya." Desperation plays. That is how you strategize around Janis' strengths and weaknesses. Which is a terrible plan for an offense down in and down out. For hail marys and 4th and 10 down by 4 points, then and only then, it's a great plan.

 

[bigbubbatd]

Opposing defenses will have a difficult time defending Janis this year since he has a breakout season ahead.

It is not difficult to defend a guy who can only run a go route. That is the key for Janis this year. Look at the Arizona a game. Well over half his yards came on plays that don't happen in normal game time. They were straight go routes where the defense had lapses and the qb threw incredible passes. Janis finished the play but those shots are rarely there during a game

 

[Deleted member 6794]

We took this man in the 5th round 2014 and if we had a do over? I'm confident many would agree that We'd Take him again at 5th round (or higher)

The Packers selected Janis in the seventh round of the 2014 draft.

Im the type to use peoples strengths to the best advantage. And try to work around the weaknesses with strategy... To explain how a sharp route determines weither a player is 5 yards to close/far down the field when a pass is coming into a specific area. Its important obviously. But to black ball him and force Montgomery back too soon. Play a slow ineffective Jones. And force feed a floundering Adams all season... Even play Abby ahead of him, who is average AT BEST!!! When they have a guy who can stretch the field sitting the pine... Explain again how I dont understand the basics, and I will re-explain how you ignore the obvious.... Again..

The team´s coaching staff as well as Rodgers know a thing or two about developing wide receivers. It should tell you a whole lot about Janis not being ready that all of the WRs you mentioned were ahead of him on the depth chart.

 

[adambr2]

With all due respect Poppa, we are in a thread called "defending Janis" and I like Jeff.
As a positive guy, I'm Not really sure why so many Fellow Packer fans feel it's necessary to stifle the support for One of our own players.

I agree. I can respect why people feel Janis needs to add more to his game to become a reliable receiver, but I find it silly that people flat out get mad or hand out a negative rating for simply having the opinion 'Janis is going to have a breakout season.' Who cares? Its an opinion. People have that opinion one way or another about a number of players. Maybe Adams will, maybe Cook will, maybe Montgomery will.

I can see the side that Janis will and I can see the side that we won't. We've still got months to discuss it to death.

 

[easyk83]

Wolf did the same thing with Driver and Schroeder. Having superior athletic ability buys you more time as long as you show progress. Both Schroeder & Driver were very very raw coming into the league. So was Cordarelle Patterson and the German WR the Vikings just drafted. It takes time.

Right and both Driver and Schroeder may have been more developed from a skill/scheme standpoint coming in. Neither Driver nor Schroeder had Janis' physical ability and I don't think either coasted as much as he did from a skill standpoint in college. Of course maybe it was just that Driver and Schroeder played with a QB who was more willing to play Sandlot style. Rodgers' low interception totals are a reflection of the precision he demands from the passing game.

Bear in mind that Driver didn't have his breakout season until his 4th year in the league.

 

[yooperpackfan]

It is not difficult to defend a guy who can only run a go route. That is the key for Janis this year. Look at the Arizona a game. Well over half his yards came on plays that don't happen in normal game time. They were straight go routes where the defense had lapses and the qb threw incredible passes. Janis finished the play but those shots are rarely there during a game

Sorry you don't believe me big, but in 6 months you will be a "big" fan of Janis.

 

[bigbubbatd]

Sorry you don't believe me big, but in 6 months you will be a "big" fan of Janis.

I believe what I have seen and don't bank much on potential. Someone mentioned Patterson in this thread. Janis has some poor man's Patterson in him. The Vikings used gimmicks to get Patterson the ball year one but teams figured it out and now Patterson is fighting for a roster spot and only gets one because of special teams. As of right now Janis does one thing well and teams will get that scouts g report and he will have to beat them with route running. He had not shown me that will happen. Watched the Arizona game and I want him on the field for hail Mary's but to me that is what that game proved. I will be very very happy to be proven wrong

Also the person who compared Janis to Driver must not have looked at their stat comparison. It isn't even close. Driver's numbers dwarf Janis.

 

[easyk83]

If u could please post a link to how the coaches feel about his work ethic I'll buy that but if all we have to go on is what we've seen he'd be ALOT farther along as a WR if he truly busted his but every day and had a ston wor ethic. Then again he could just be dumb as a box of rocks.

No idea but I think it's undeniable he still hasn't grasped the concept of route running which should give pause if the narrative is that he has a strong work ethic

""Great kid, hardworking, very powerful," McCarthy said. "But there were just a lot of things, when he does them, they're for the first time. Hopefully we're out of that phase of his development. I look for Jeff to take that next step. He made the step in your second year that you look for. He did it first on special teams.""

"I like to look at Jeff as kind of an ascending Green Bay Packer," McCarthy said last week during the NFL Scouting Combine, via ESPN.com. "I look at his years, I think you look for a guy to take a jump in his second year, and clearly, you look at his rookie year, very raw, raw player. He made the 53 on potential, not on performance."

Janis' route running was his biggest problem coming out of Saginaw Valley State, where coaches asked him to do a little more than out-athlete defenders. McCarthy believes the 24-year-old receiver has made strides in all aspects of his game, which started by becoming an impact special teams player."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...arthy-jeff-janis-ready-to-take-that-next-step

 

[adambr2]

http://www.mlive.com/cardinals/index.ssf/2014/05/tawas_area_alum_jeff_janis.html


When Janis left for SVSU, his workout partners changed, but the intensity of the workouts didn't.

"I don't remember a day where I wasn't impressed with what Jeff was doing in the weight room," Collins said. "I think that's one of the first places we saw his potential. After his redshirt freshman year, you watched him in the weight room putting on weight, getting stronger and that made him faster."

His 40-yard dash time improved more than two-tenths of a second from his senior year in high school to his pro-day as a junior at SVSU.

"He has a work ethic like no other," Herrick said. "He is one of those rare breeds. Some guys are blessed with genetics, and some guys are blessed with that work ethic. He got blessed with both. He's not done either. He's going to be off the charts in four or five years with the things he can do physically."

 

[bigbubbatd]

Yeah I think it is mistake to critique his physical effort and I can see how some may have thought that is what I was saying earlier in the thread. To me the only place to critique it is with the playback. The mental work. Sounds like he is making strides which is great

 

[adambr2]

My best guess would be that he is indeed a very hard worker who has struggled to transition to the pro game as far as techniques and route running mostly because he's never been asked to operate with that kind of precision in a pro style offense. Saginaw Valley State is such a different level of football than the NFL that he probably had no trouble getting by on his physical skills alone.

With 2 years as a pro under his belt now hopefully that's something he will be able to add this season.

 

[Mondio]

I don't think a 3-4 year development curve is really that odd considering where Janis came from. I don't doubt is work ethic is very strong, never have. I can tell just from special teams play, this guy wants to see the field and wants to be noticed. Some guys catch on quickly, some take longer. Some guys make a team, get cut, make a practice squad, make another practice squad, keep working and 3-4 years later they come a long way from where they were.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Around and around we go......I'm waiting to hear/see new information.

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[Pokerbrat2000]

Wonder how this Ad campaign worked out. mmmm....that looks.....refreshing.

They too were banking on his stellar game against SD, where his 2 catches (reg. season total) led the team!

http://www.drkehres.com/2015/10/jeff-janis-kale-smoothie.html

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[sschind]

I agree. I can respect why people feel Janis needs to add more to his game to become a reliable receiver, but I find it silly that people flat out get mad or hand out a negative rating for simply having the opinion 'Janis is going to have a breakout season.' Who cares? Its an opinion. People have that opinion one way or another about a number of players. Maybe Adams will, maybe Cook will, maybe Montgomery will.

I can see the side that Janis will and I can see the side that we won't. We've still got months to discuss it to death.

And we will...believe me we will.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

You missed the part of reply that covers it. In summary:

1) You can only work around Janis' sloppy routes more or less one way: The Go Route. Which is a low percentage play.

2) Because he cannot run other routes well, he is unnecessarily easy to defend against: Play off, soft man. "Surrender" the routes that 15 yards or less because he'll telegraph you the route he's going to run.

3) Because of the time required to develop a Go route, Rodgers won't have many opportunities to attempt the throw. (This is not an indictment of our O-Line. This is a truism for the entire league.) Looping back to 1), few of those attempts will even be caught. It's a hard throw.

I understand what you're proposing. The problem is Janis has no counter punch. His speed can be neutralized on a down by down basis. You cannot strategize around that. EVERYTHING in football has a counter move, even the counter moves. It's the circular nature of the sport. Janis cannot counter the counter to his speedy Go.

Similarly, I want the light bulb to go on for Janis. I was tentatively excited about him from his draft and got pretty excited after his first pre-season. He's dripping with physical talent. If he get's it, and I mean really gets it, he'll be the #3 at worst. But he is not there yet.



No, it is CRITICAL. If a receiver runs the wrong route, or does so poorly, interceptions can happen.

The Arizona game was "Go long and I'll get it to ya." Desperation plays. That is how you strategize around Janis' strengths and weaknesses. Which is a terrible plan for an offense down in and down out. For hail marys and 4th and 10 down by 4 points, then and only then, it's a great plan.

I think Janis might be capable of more than one single route. Like he is too dumb to do anything but go straight??? But even if this was true. How is it that he managed the game he did against the dominant Cardinals defense?

Say it was luck... Teams still have to defend him. With Jones, One defender had him covered. He was blanketed every down dang near. Bumped all the way down the field... Now with Janis, he blows by the CB and the Safety is forced to help... Thats what Jordy does too. Even when he didnt catch the ball, He helped others get open....

Thats what we were missing...

And a great coach would have given Janis a few plays to master this year, instead of benching him for not mastering all the plays right away. Give him some plays over the middle where Rodgers can hit him in stride, rather than throwing blind to a point, and expecting the receiver to be there. When he's proven he can do everything else BUT that.

 

[mradtke66]

I think Janis might be capable of more than one single route. Like he is too dumb to do anything but go straight???

No, he's not too dumb, but cannot do anything else well yet. Until he can prove he has at least 5 routes he can run, his value is pretty low. He's still raw. It may work out. I hope it does. I really, really want it to.

But even if this was true. How is it that he managed the game he did against the dominant Cardinals defense?

Because that was desperation mode. The normal rules of offense are thrown out the window. There is a difference between how you attack a defense 0-0 in the first quarter, 1st and 10 vs. desperation, which is what he did in the Arizona game. Those were super-high-risk plays, but they were literally the only options they had left. Counting on Rodgers to scramble for 5 seconds of time every down isn't feasible.

Say it was luck... Teams still have to defend him. With Jones, One defender had him covered. He was blanketed every down dang near. Bumped all the way down the field... Now with Janis, he blows by the CB and the Safety is forced to help...

It was a little luck, but is great, great plays from everyone to even Janis a chance to catch those passes, particularly the hail mary. More often than not, Rodgers gets sacked on that play. He sprints out hard to the left, throws across his body into double coverage. That is not a recipe for success. And you absolutely cannot count on those. That's the problem.

Thats what we were missing...

I don't disagree, but Janis isn't good enough to force help every play. He'll get open eventually, yes, based on his pure speed. But the ball is already going to someone else or Rodgers is sacked waiting for Janis to get open.

And a great coach would have given Janis a few plays to master this year, instead of benching him for not mastering all the plays right away. Give him some plays over the middle where Rodgers can hit him in stride, rather than throwing blind to a point, and expecting the receiver to be there. When he's proven he can do everything else BUT that.

[/QUOTE]

Three points: First, you presume that McCarthy DIDN'T give Janis a small package of plays. Janis may have been able to screw up two packaged plays. The other problem is if he only have two plays, that'll show up on film. Two weeks later, the defense calls out: "83's on the field, watch the GO" and once again, what is about to happen is known to all and it can be over-easily be defensed. Bad move.

Second, even a seam route involves timing. You need to be deep enough to beat the MLB, shallow enough to not get killed by the safety. And that presumes a cover-2 shell. Seam routes aren't the best against Cover-1 or Cover-3, because there is a safety right in the middle.

Third: Janis has not shown the best hands. The middle of the field is rough and Janis' second weakest point, after route running, is catching. He fights the ball a little, is a body catcher, and tends not to use those long arms. And there is built in safety help (assuming a LB or nickel corner has primary coverage.) He'll have a rougher time in the middle than on the outside.

I WILL however, concede, that what he DID show me on the hail mary play WAS good extension. It's probably the only thing he did show me, but it's a big step. It gives me hope.