Defending Janis

[Sky King]

Life is too short to have hard feelings on a sport's message board!

I agree that Janis will be a role player on offense. I think it will be a bigger role than last year but the numbers wont be huge for a few reasons
1. Nelson is back and will put up big numbers
2. Nelson is back thus Cobb will be better
3. Adams is likely to be healthy and will probably succeed as a #3 compared to a #1
4. Montgomery will be healthy and he looked good when healthy
5. Cook will make TE a position with more targets
6. Lacy is no longer the size of a guard so we should be able to run more

Not a ton of catches out there for Abby, Janis, or Davis

Pretty much agree with all of the above. In addition, it's not a coincidence that all three of the latter mentioned can play STs though. It may all give them a leg up if they advance as WRs.

Of those three, Janis, is probably the most well-rounded because he can serve as a defender on both units and as KO returner. Three out of four STs is not too bad and, who knows, he may be able to return punts, too, if necessary. The other two can return both KOs and/or punts but probably don't offer a much as ST defenders. Davis is lightening in a bottle but small, and Abby is nifty as return men but a bit fragile. And then there's Montgomery, who is not a bad return option on both KOs and punts. Hyde is also in the STs mix, though he could very well be phased-out of return duty altogether with multiple talents like that available as return men.

Adams is the only current receiver from the most recent 53s (other than the rookie Davis) that has not been a significant contributor on STs for the Pack. In their earlier careers both Nelson and Cobb also contributed quite a bit and, theoretically, still could do so in a pinch.

Provided that there are no major injuries and the competition amongst the younger WRs is strong, Adams had better bring his "A" game to playing WR this season or his value could slip. He'll need a big rebound year this season to make-up for last season's disappointing performance.

The WR competition promises to be intense and it should be fun to watch.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Of those three, Janis, is probably the most well-rounded because he can serve as a defender on both units and as KO returner. Three out of four STs is not too bad and, who knows, he may be able to return punts, too, if necessary. The other two can return both KOs and/or punts but probably don't offer a much as ST defenders. Davis is lightening in a bottle but small, and Abby is nifty as return men but a bit fragile. And then there's Montgomery, who is not a bad return option on both KOs and punts. Hyde is also in the STs mix, though he could very well be phased-out of return duty altogether with multiple talents like that available as return men.

Adams is the only current receiver from the most recent 53s (other than the rookie Davis) that has not been a significant contributor on STs for the Pack. In their earlier careers both Nelson and Cobb also contributed quite a bit and, theoretically, still could do so in a pinch.

Actually Janis is the only Packers receiver who got significant playing time on special teams last season. Montgomery, Abbrederis and Davis might be able to contribute as a returner but don't offer a whole lot more in this phase if the game.

Adams got only a single snap on ST last season and as you mentioned correctly doesn't have the talent to become a decent player on any of the units.

While Janis will for sure make the team based on his performance on special teams the other receivers currently on the Packers roster will have to produce on offense to get on the roster and in further consequence on the field.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I wouldn't mind seeing Janis return some punts in the preseason. His early kickoff returns were impressive, but kind of tapered off the last part of the season. Hyde's work on punt returns wasn't that special last season, so finding a replacement there would be nice. Guessing we will see Davis as well. Also, trying to remember if Janis was on ST's during kickoffs, I assume he was, but don't remember the kinds of tackles like he made playing gunner on punts?

 

[OldSchool101]

Excuse me but if our Defense hadn't coughed up a win to Arizona, would we have benched Jeff Janis in the Chsmpionshop game? ? I think not, that would be ludicrous if I may borrow that term. Was it Jeffs fault he didn't get to rack up more stats last year's playoffs ??
I'll just say I think it's obvious Early on Jeff wasnt catching on to the Offensive playbook in a speedy fashion. I don't believe his limited playtime has anything to do with any lack of athleticism.
Jeff's athleticism at ST play throughout the regular season and him rising to the occasion in the playoffs as arguably our best backup WR have made him the focus of one of this year's most puzzling questions. Is he really a legitimate Wideout?
The only thing we know for certain is that year 2 was as solid an improvement over year 1 for him as nearly any player on this squad. This means Jeff has a high upside of potential which is EXACTLY what we knew we were getting after the combine results in round 5 that same year. We knew he was highly athletic but mentally raw and a was project with high upside.
Whoever doubted him before the Divisional game stands corrected IMO
I believe Jeff is the type of player that can be inspired by a really strong group of coaches now that he has gained valuable seasoning and acquired some more confidence that I didn't see year 1.
Does Jeff accepts that challenge is the ??
I can't speak for God or for others or for Jeff for that matter, but I can speak for myself when I say there is not a 1% degree of doubt in my mind he wont rise to the occasion, and in turn, conversely inspire the coaches who believed in him. Nurturing this kid and honing his skills is what football is all about IMO.

 

[bigbubbatd]

Montgomery was actually our best kr last year. Averaged two more yards per return and the coaching staff was talking about giving him a crack at punt returner before his injury. Janis has more straight line speed but Montgomery is much more shifty. It is nice to have two guys who can return

 

[bigbubbatd]

Excuse me but if our Defense hadn't coughed up a win to Arizona, would we have benched Jeff Janis in the Chsmpionshop game? ? I think not, that would be ludicrous if I may borrow that term. Was it Jeffs fault he didn't get to rack up more stats last year's playoffs ??
I'll just say I think it's obvious Early on Jeff wasnt catching on to the Offensive playbook in a speedy fashion. I don't believe his limited playtime has anything to do with any lack of athleticism.
Jeff's athleticism at ST play throughout the regular season and him rising to the occasion in the playoffs as arguably our best backup WR have made him the focus of one of this year's most puzzling questions. Is he really a legitimate Wideout?
The only thing we know for certain is that year 2 was as solid an improvement over year 1 for him as nearly any player on this squad. This means Jeff has a high upside of potential which is EXACTLY what we knew we were getting after the combine results in round 5 that same year. We knew he was highly athletic but mentally raw and a was project with high upside.
Whoever doubted him before the Divisional game stands corrected IMO

If one game can make someone like you so certain why can't someone doubt after witnessing his other 20 plus game?

Other comments.

No one said he wasnt athletic. Lots of athletic people can't play wr in the NFL.

If Adam's would have been healthy Janis would have most definitely went to the bench for the NFC championship

Janis had 2 receptions in both of his 1st two regular seasons. So there really wasn't an improvement on the wr end

 

[LarrysCrookedFinger]

If Adam's would have been healthy Janis would have most definitely went to the bench for the NFC championship

And Adams would have continued his season-long streak of mediocrity while McCarthy and Rodgers continued to refuse to give Janis (and Abbrederis, for that matter) a fair chance to settle into the offense and show he could do.

 

[adambr2]

If one game can make someone like you so certain why can't someone doubt after witnessing his other 20 plus game?

Other comments.

No one said he wasnt athletic. Lots of athletic people can't play wr in the NFL.

If Adam's would have been healthy Janis would have most definitely went to the bench for the NFC championship

Janis had 2 receptions in both of his 1st two regular seasons. So there really wasn't an improvement on the wr end

The main reason Janis had such a low reception count is a lack of snaps on offense to do more than that.

While I agree Adams probably would have been back in his role in the NFCCG if healthy (he was starting to come around in Washington), I think Janis likely would have seen at least some role and some offensive snaps in the gameplan had we advanced to Carolina the following week.

I also don't really recall if Cobb's injury in Arizona is something that would have continued to sideline him the following week.

 

[sschind]

I think everyone has pretty much repeated, reverberated, regurgitated and requoted just about anything or everything there is to be known about Janis, except maybe his shoe size and favorite color. We will all get our answers to this soon enough. If Janis is playing at WR and putting up decent numbers, then Janis supporters will feel vindicated. Personally, I hope for that. However, if Janis is stuck at #5 or #6 and sees little playing time at WR, I hope people will except the fact, that despite what he did in the AZ game, there are reasons why he is still not seeing the field at WR and this isn't just some big coaching mistake.

As long as his favorite color is not purple I'm OK with it. I suspect however that if Janis is stuck at #5 or #6 many of his supporters will say its because the coaches are stupid or they have something personal against him. Its going to take a total meltdown for them to admit he just doesn't have what it take to be a WR. If he doesn't get the chance its not going to be his fault it will be the coaches.

I wonder how many Bears fans are that upset the Devin Hester didn't become a better WR.

 

[adambr2]

Hester got every opportunity though, it wasn't from a lack of the coaching staff giving him snaps on offense. He just wasn't a good receiver.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I wouldn't mind seeing Janis return some punts in the preseason. His early kickoff returns were impressive, but kind of tapered off the last part of the season. Hyde's work on punt returns wasn't that special last season, so finding a replacement there would be nice. Guessing we will see Davis as well. Also, trying to remember if Janis was on ST's during kickoffs, I assume he was, but don't remember the kinds of tackles like he made playing gunner on punts?

In my opinion either Montgomery or Janis will be the Packers primary kickoff return next season. After Hyde struggling returning punts in 2015 I expect an open competition for that job involving several players. Ball security us the most important aspect of it though.

I can't remember for sure either but I think Janis was on the kickoff coverage unit as well.

Excuse me but if our Defense hadn't coughed up a win to Arizona, would we have benched Jeff Janis in the Chsmpionshop game? ?

Whoever doubted him before the Divisional game stands corrected IMO

Janis would have played in the NFCCG as the Packers were down to a maximum of four healthy wide receivers at that point. If Adams would have missed that game Janis would have started by default.

While there's no doubt his performance against the Cardinals was impressive it takes more than one game to prove your point of the doubters being corrected .

The main reason Janis had such a low reception count is a lack of snaps on offense to do more than that.

Let's take a closer look at that. During the regular season Janis played a total of 131 snaps and caught two balls for 79 yards. That numbers result in a reception every 65.5 snaps as well as 0.60 receiving yards per snap.

Now let's compare that to the other receivers who got playing time last season (the first number indicates snaps per reception, the second one yards per snap):

Cobb: 13.3, 0.79
Jones: 20.9, 0.85
Adams: 15.3, 0.63
Montgomery: 16.1, 0.56
Abbrederis: 11.0, 1.12

While Janis puts up similar yards per snap numbers he significantly lacks production on receptions per snap. That's mostly because the Packers have used him to his strengths as a deep threat only.

I also don't really recall if Cobb's injury in Arizona is something that would have continued to sideline him the following week.

Cobb suffered a bruised lung vs. the Cardinals so I highly doubt he would have been able to play a week later.

 

[adambr2]

Something that wouldn't show up in the traditional stat sheet, so I'm going by memory only here, but IIRC correctly, the few times that they did try to utilize Janis deep; although Rodgers and Janis weren't able to hook up during the regular season at all I do believe they were successful in drawing long pass interference penalties a couple times. I'd have to go back and look.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Something that wouldn't show up in the traditional stat sheet, so I'm going by memory only here, but IIRC correctly, the few times that they did try to utilize Janis deep; although Rodgers and Janis weren't able to hook up during the regular season at all I do believe they were successful in drawing long pass interference penalties a couple times. I'd have to go back and look.

The only time Janis drew a pass interference penalty during the regular season in 2015 was on Terrence Newman for 50 yards vs. the Vikings in week 11.

 

[adambr2]

Here's a fairly harsh assessment of the decision process not to get Janis more reps in 2015.

http://totalpackers.com/2016/01/of-course-jeff-janis-didnt-get-any-reps/

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Here's a fairly harsh assessment of the decision process not to get Janis more reps in 2015.

http://totalpackers.com/2016/01/of-course-jeff-janis-didnt-get-any-reps/

I don´t think that Monty McMahon, who is online marketing expert, or that site, which refers to Teddy Bridgewater as Teddy ********, is a credible source to support your point of view.

 

[adambr2]

I don´t think that Monty McMahon, who is online marketing expert, or that site, which refers to Teddy Bridgewater as Teddy ********, is a credible source to support your point of view.

I'm not looking for any support of my point there, obviously it's not a high end journalistic venue. Just passing along the link. I just said it was a harsh assessment.

 

[Mondio]

Here's a fairly harsh assessment of the decision process not to get Janis more reps in 2015.

http://totalpackers.com/2016/01/of-course-jeff-janis-didnt-get-any-reps/

I didn't get much past the "Big mike's gravy soaked thought process" comment. I suspect basically everything else after that was basically crap too.

I guess I can only comment on what I read, but our 4.3 speed didn't "rot on the bench". He was given opportunity and he squandered most of them.

Anyway, It's a pretty sad state of affairs when that's what a journalistic assessment of our favorite team has come to. Warranted or not, this staff should have earned a bit more respect than this guy showed. It's like choosing to get your news from the drunk guy at the end of the bar, except nobody thinks he's a legit source of anything other than the other drunks.

 

[adambr2]

I guess I can only comment on what I read, but our 4.3 speed didn't "rot on the bench". He was given opportunity and he squandered most of them.

I agree that it was a trash piece but I don't agree with your quoted part here at all.

 

[bigbubbatd]

The only time Janis drew a pass interference penalty during the regular season in 2015 was on Terrence Newman for 50 yards vs. the Vikings in week 11.

At this point I don't think stats matter. That one game will be the trump card every time. The fact that Janis was 7th on the depth chart (behind a rookie and a guy in Abby who barely practiced with the team), had 4 catches in two years before Arizona, had less receptions per snap than any wr, saw half his yearly yards come on one drive on two desperation heaves, etc doest matter because he runs fast and had some big catches against Arizona.

Who cares that the guy people want to run out of town in Adam's had 7 catches for 117 yards and a to in a playoff win just the season before. I am just going to use that one game to say that Adams is ready to breakout

 

[RRyder]

At this point I don't think stats matter. That one game will be the trump card every time. The fact that Janis was 7th on the depth chart (behind a rookie and a guy in Abby who barely practiced with the team), had 4 catches in two years before Arizona, had less receptions per snap than any wr, saw half his yearly yards come on one drive on two desperation heaves, etc doest matter because he runs fast and had some big catches against Arizona.

Who cares that the guy people want to run out of town in Adam's had 7 catches for 117 yards and a to in a playoff win just the season before. I am just going to use that one game to say that Adams is ready to breakout

Don't forget the game RR had against Detroit also.

 

[sschind]

Hester got every opportunity though, it wasn't from a lack of the coaching staff giving him snaps on offense. He just wasn't a good receiver.

I agree, I just wonder what the similarities between Hester and Janis as WRs are. Did Hester get the opportunities because he showed promise but could never quite get it or did he get the opportunities because of his ST ability (read that return abilities) and they were hoping he would catch on or did he get the opportunities because they had no one better to throw out there?

Depending on who you listen to about Janis we are lead to believe he has not gotten the opportunities because A) he just doesn't get it or B) Mike McCarthy is stupid.

 

[adambr2]

Who cares that the guy people want to run out of town in Adam's had 7 catches for 117 yards and a to in a playoff win just the season before. I am just going to use that one game to say that Adams is ready to breakout

I know you're talking partly tongue in cheek here, but it would be a better argument if that game was more recent, like in the last year.

Also the difference is those guys got way, way more opportunities and snaps. Over a long enough period of time it's not surprising that they put those games together at least once. I'm also not surprised on the receptions per snap count from Janis as Rodgers frequently didn't look his way out of a lack of trust, until he was forced to.

The Janis venom here is weird. I have no problem with the idea that Adams still had the upper hand for the number 3 job; in fact, I think he does. It's people acting like it's incomprehensible that Janis could beat out Adams when it's not. There's a lot of possibilities yet how it could shake out.

Personally as long as our best players are on the field that's all that matters to me no matter which ones that ends up being.

 

[Poppa San]

The Janis venom here is weird.

I don't see it as venom as much as "slow down the hype train." Let's see it again before carving his bust for Canton.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I know you're talking partly tongue in cheek here, but it would be a better argument if that game was more recent, like in the last year.

Also the difference is those guys got way, way more opportunities and snaps. Over a long enough period of time it's not surprising that they put those games together at least once. I'm also not surprised on the receptions per snap count from Janis as Rodgers frequently didn't look his way out of a lack of trust, until he was forced to.

The Janis venom here is weird. I have no problem with the idea that Adams still had the upper hand for the number 3 job; in fact, I think he does. It's people acting like it's incomprehensible that Janis could beat out Adams when it's not. There's a lot of possibilities yet how it could shake out.

Personally as long as our best players are on the field that's all that matters to me no matter which ones that ends up being.

I actually think your post (and Bubba's) in a round about way hit the nail on the head, at least for me. First, I am a Packer fan, so I want both Adams and Janis to both be future hall of famers. But if the season started today and nothing had changed from last season and I was MM, I would be trotting a healthy Adams out there over a healthy Janis. Why? Because of his total body of work over the last 2 seasons both on and off the field, as well as the obvious trust of his QB. Sure Adams had his moments of bad play in 2015, but so did Janis as well as AR, Cobb and the rest of the offense. But Adams has a pretty full 2 year resume with plenty of good and some bad. With most of the bad coming last season, a season in which he wasn't always playing healthy. Janis on the other hand, has a pretty blank resume. Lots of notes on things he needs to improve on and off the field, some not so shining moments with the few opportunities he was provided and ends with what some perceive as a career defining game in AZ, that's it....end of resume.

Both of them will have a chance to prove themselves before opening day, but IMO because of his limited body of work, Janis still has a lot more to prove of himself, before he moves up the depth chart.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I'm also not surprised on the receptions per snap count from Janis as Rodgers frequently didn't look his way out of a lack of trust, until he was forced to.

Over the first two seasons when Rodgers looked his way Janis had a catch rate of only 16.7%. It's understandable the QB didn't target him more often.

The Janis venom here is weird. I have no problem with the idea that Adams still had the upper hand for the number 3 job; in fact, I think he does. It's people acting like it's incomprehensible that Janis could beat out Adams when it's not. There's a lot of possibilities yet how it could shake out.

Personally as long as our best players are on the field that's all that matters to me no matter which ones that ends up being.

I'm convinced every single poster around here wants Janis to succeed but some of us want to see at least another performance close to the one in Arizona before elevating him to stardom.

But Adams has a pretty full 2 year resume with plenty of good and some bad.

Mostly agree with your post but while Adams had good games against the Patriots and Cowboys during his rookie season as well as a heads-up play late against the Dolphins he gas mistly been mediocre during his first two years in the league.