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Building through the draft AND ADDING key pieces via Free agency

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by rodell330, Jan 22, 2014.

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  1. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

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    TT in an interview with Tyler Dunne of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinal. Responds to his approach when it comes to free agency. “ I think doing it for the sake of doing it is a waste of time and energy. If we get the opportunity, if it presents itself and makes sense for the club with the way we put things together, we’re going to do it. We’ve done it in the past. We try to do it selectively.” SELECTIVELY may be over doing it and should be substituted with rarely instead. YES the Packers are good enough to compete for the NFC North title every year but are they good enough to compete for a SB title every year? not lately, and i 2014 will be no cakewalk in the NFC North.

    I'm not a TT hater i'm really not... but i highly dislike some of his methods. Some of you guys are stats folks like myself and show me proof folks like myself so i'm happy to oblige. I'll even go one up and compare TT Free agent pickups to Ron Wolf. I'll start with Wolf.

    C Frank Winters, 1992: Signed in Plan B free agency, he played a huge part in quarterback Brett Favre's development.
    WR Kitrick Taylor, '92: Also signed in Plan B, he jump-started Favre's career with a game-winning catch.
    DE Reggie White, '93: Helped return Green Bay to a place championships could be won.
    OG Harry Galbreath, '93: Gave coach Mike Holmgren a shot of athleticism he needed upfront.
    S Mike Prior, '93: Core special teams player who did his best to fill in at safety despite lack of speed.
    DE Sean Jones, '94: Sack artist who made it tough for teams to double-team White all the time.
    DT Santana Dotson, '95: Turned coordinator Fritz Shurmur's defensive line from good to great.
    KR/PR Desmond Howard, '96: Broke an NFL punt-return record and won a Super Bowl MVP.
    OT Bruce Wilkerson, '96: Critical piece of Super Bowl XXXI team, filling void at left tackle late in the year.
    WR Don Beebe, '96: Perfect for a young receiving corps even if his contribution was limited.
    P Sean Landeta, '98: Had a superb year at age 36 and should have been re-signed.

    Others: OG Tunch Ilkin, WR Mark Clayton, WR Mark Ingram, NT Bill Maas, RB Reggie Cobb, S Pat Terrell, OG Guy McIntyre, LB Fred Strickland, LB Ron Cox, OG Raleigh McKenzie, RB Raymont Harris, DE John Thierry, LB Mike Morton and NT Russell Maryland.



    TED THOMPSON
    CB/S Charles Woodson, 2006: Turnover-causing machine and defensive MVP won a long-awaited Super Bowl.
    DT/DE Ryan Pickett, '06: Resurrected his career and is the most under-rated of all Thompson personnel moves.
    S Marquand Manuel, '06: Washed-up player who couldn't earn the respect of his teammates and was ineffective.
    CB Frank Walker, '07: i remember him giving up a game winning TD catch against the Steelers?
    LB Brandon Chillar, '08: Had one ok season
    DE Anthony Hargrove, '12: Couldn't overcome four-game suspension he was facing and was cut in camp.
    C Jeff Saturday, '12: Big drop-off from Scott Wells and was benched before end of the season.

    Others: OT Adrian Klemm, OG Matt O'Dwyer, LB Ben Taylor, WR Marc Boerigter, OL Duke Preston, DE Phillip Merling, DT Daniel Muir.


    I think it's fair to say Wolf was much better when it came to bringing in Free agents who would have more of an impact wouldn't you say? Alot of his free agent pickups were apart of two Sb teams and had MAJOR contributions.

    TT is a draft and develop guy and by looking at who he's signed via free agency i think i'm starting to see why he doesn't sign many. If you are going to miss mise well be a guy you hand picked yourself right? I think thats more of his attitude but he needs to change his thinking. People will always bring up 2010 and the job that was done but lets take a look at whats happened since then shall we? take a look at this number. 1-4 in the playoffs since then with 3 of those being 1 and DONE...oh and that was against a backup Qb by the way. Whens the last time TT really hit on a 1st rd pick? what 4 yrs ago?? thats not that good folks. How long did it take for us to find a good rb? If not for the lions being the lions he basically botched the backup qb situation and we were gifted a playoff spot...in which we lost in the first rd. because defense still hasn't gotten any better...also under the watch of TT. So before you all come to the defense of Teddy hear me out, i'm not saying fire the guy but he needs to do better when it comes to not only free agency but drafting in the first round. Wolf was so good because he believed in adding key pieces through free agency and it payed off...where Teddy is stuck in his ways that his picks are always going to pan out and he would rather fail with his guys vs upgrading somewhere besides the draft.
     
  2. ExpatPacker

    ExpatPacker Cheesehead

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    That interview with TT was for me an almost sure sign that there will be no significant FA signings in the off season this year.
     
  3. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

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    BINGO.....and unfortnately it's probably going to be the same thing on defense as years past...depending on young guys who aren't ready to play while filling holes for often injured veterans smh.
     
  4. BorderRivals.com

    BorderRivals.com Cheesehead

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    So, let me get this straight... "Wolf was so good because he believed in adding key pieces through free agency and it payed off" Meanwhile, TT is garbage because these last three playoff runs have been short-lived.

    You do realize that both GMs have 1 SB to their name, right?! I mean, wow. It's as if the 2010 SB - merely three years ago - means nothing.
     
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  5. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Do you realize that the 2010 SB team had two very important players on defense that were brought in via free agency???
     
  6. BorderRivals.com

    BorderRivals.com Cheesehead

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    Of course. I'm just getting at the conclusion that Wolff is so much better than TT based on their philosophies, even though both have had the same amount of ultimate success using both strategies.

    Point being, you may disagree with the strategy, but it's ridiculous to say he's terrible, not good, and/or Wolff is so much better when they both have succeeded.
     
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  7. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    I think TT is a pretty good GM, not a great one though. IMO filling obvious holes with veteran free agents for reasonable contracts should be part of the way how to acquire players and TT has ignored that for several years. And the defense has paid the price for it.
     
  8. NOMOFO

    NOMOFO Cheesehead

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    Using Wolf as an "apples to apples" comparison to try to prove your point is beyond totally ridiculous. Wolf didn't even have to worry about the salary cap for much of his time in Green Bay! Including when signing the number one Packer free agent signing of all time - Reggie White! ...so even mentioning Reggie just goes to show how hard you're trying to skew the TT facts. The cap wasn't even put in play until 1994 AND the CAP is much different today than back then.

    Now take a look at all of those "amazing" Wolf FA signings that came post CAP era. Suddenly it kind of puts things into perspective huh? Suddenly Ron Wolf looks a lot like Ted Thompson. To make it appear Wolf has this long laundry list of amazing FA signings is a joke.
     
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  9. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    To do an effective comparison, you can't just look at the number of FAs brought in to prove a point. You should look at the contract values of all FAs to assess their contributions. It's also leaving out that TT has been slightly better at drafting than Wolf, which essentially balances out the FA moves.

    What I find interesting is that the Dunne interview is a non-story that has riled folks up as expected. Thompson said that his approach hasn't changed and that he'll only make FAs if it is smart for the club, he won't mortgage the club's future. That's no change from the past 9 years.
     
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  10. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

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    you are entitled to your opnion and so am i..we disagree when it comes to TT that's just the way it is. I posted all facts i didn't make anything up.
     
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  11. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Smh

    How many years has he been in charge?? And yet people still complain he signs no one..

    He wont change, just accept it, nothing anyone here says willchange it.
     
  12. BorderRivals.com

    BorderRivals.com Cheesehead

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    But, what about this fact - both GM's have 1 SB. So how is Wolff that much better than TT, especially when accounting for the difference in handling the salary cap?
     
  13. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

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    Maybe you're right. Winning the division and at least making the playoffs seems to be good enough around Green Bay... even if you keep getting bounced in the 1st round. Maybe i should just give up hope? maybe all the draft picks will become studs and the defense will be able to carry their weight for once? Heres to yr four being the year!
     
  14. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    Why not start a Thompson-bashing thread every day? Each could be named "Bashing Thompson, (fill in the date) Edition. :rolleyes: (Just to be clear: This is aimed at you rodell330.)
     
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  15. NOMOFO

    NOMOFO Cheesehead

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    lol... this is when you lose cred. ...I'm somehow blamed for cherry picking comments that I actually cut and past from this site, and yet you post totally misleading facts and call it an "opinion". huh? Do you understand that Ron Wolf didn't have to even deal with the salary cap for half the years when he was GM? Do you understand that half of his free agent signings were circa the cap and hence, what you posted tells us nothing?
     
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  16. speakhands

    speakhands Cheesehead

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    I think Mike Sherman deserves a little praise here for some of his bold acquisitions: Terry Glenn (bust), Al Harris (WELL worth the 2nd rounder), Hardy Nickerson (more symbolic than anything, but didn't do much), Wesley Walls (actually a pretty good pick up, I thought), Grady Jackson (WELL worth it; best midseason pickup of my football-watching career), Joe Johnson (BUST), Mark Roman (BUST)

    Well, after reviewing the tapes, Sherman does not deserve any praise. I still think Jackson and Harris were great moves, though. And I still have a soft spot for Sherman.
     
  17. BorderRivals.com

    BorderRivals.com Cheesehead

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    This could not have been time more perfectly. Here is a breakdown of the future of the five NFC teams that were bounced in the playoffs: http://grantland.com/the-triangle/n...n-questions-for-each-eliminated-playoff-team/

    In sum:

    1. SF - Major turnover is expected. Tough decisions to gain cap space. Gone are likely Gore, Whitner, Brown, and even Boldin. Contracts for Aldon Smith and Kaep loom.
    2. Carolina - In huge financial hole because of short-sighted free agency moves. Weird. I thought signing FA's was the key! Defense looks to be a shell of its elite self next year.
    3. Packers - In great cap space and just needs to get healthy. Return of Bulaga will shore up line. JMike situation is tough to figure out. And defense needs help up middle (which we all agree).
    4. Eagles - Defense is in bad shape with safety play being terrible and free agents to boot. Unknowns behind.
    5. Saints - $9M OVER the cap, before figuring out Jimmy. Likely going to cut Will Smith and lose Malcolm Jenkins. Recent bad contracts have really hurt Saints.
     
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  18. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    It's pretty obvious to all of us that the Packers have the best cap situation of them all. I wonder though why anybody would think our injury situation will improve anytime soon as it seems we'll hold on to the current strength and conditioning staff.
     
  19. BorderRivals.com

    BorderRivals.com Cheesehead

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    But it's not obvious to most posters here that the other playoffs teams don't have a rosy outlook in the future when trying to argue that TT is failing. Instead, it's the here and now. And disregard 2010 - that was lucky. Yet, they don't account for long-term planning. But, when you only look in the short-term, look at what it's done to Carolina and NO. And the 9ers and Haws will soon follow suit once they have to pay Aldon Smith, Kaep, Russell Wilson, Richard Sherman, and Earl Thomas. Also, do you think the Hawks would want that Percy Harvin trade back now?! But, that's the exact thing that many TT haters - Rodell in particular - are clamoring for TT to do.
     
  20. NOMOFO

    NOMOFO Cheesehead

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    ...and the bottom line is that the extreme Ted haters can't follow a coherent thought for more than 2 seconds so you have to hit them with tiny little snippits of facts. :D
     
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  21. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Most good teams will at some point have troubles re-signing all of their players because of the cap, I just don't think it's a given that the Niners and Seahawks won't be contenders in a year or two (the situation in New Orleans is a way different story and they'll have a lot of problems in the near future, I have to admit I didn't know about the Panthers situation).

    I think the Seahawks would love to take the Harvin trade back. Just for the record I would never want TT to make a move like that.
     
  22. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

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    All i've said was try to fill a hole or two with a guy who won't break the bank and is a good player. I guess that's the same as in saying go crazy and overspend tho to you.
     
  23. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

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    Look, I'm not one to argue for a huge free agent signing, they rarely work. However, the total lack of engagement in the free agent market is a little much. The Panthers signed their starting safety in free agency. He cost $1m on a one year contract. Wouldn't he have been a nice player to have this year? And before someone says I'm cherry picking my examples, I don't get paid millions of dollars to figure this stuff out before the season, GMs are held to a much higher standard than your everyday forum poster.

    Now, for the teams above. Yeah, San Fran will probably drop off a bit. The loss of Boldin probably won't hurt too much since they'll have Crabtree for an entire season and Gore, while good, isn't appreciably better than his backups in San Fran. The Saints are hosed, no doubt about it. The Eagles are basically the NFC East equivalent of the Packers. Terrible defense, good offense. Not sure how their safety position is really any worse than ours. They also have roughly $21m in cap space next year (Packers are at about $28m) so it will be interesting to see if they take a different tact to improve their defense (maybe a good case next year between free agency and no-free agency?)

    You ignore Seattle in the above (I know, they're still in the playoffs but ignoring them is disingenuos) and they've used free agency VERY well to fill in the spots left open from their drafts; and, despite what many seem to think, cap issues aren't going to tear up that team next year. I actually wouldn't be shocked to see them let Sherman walk rather than pay him an almost $20m per year salary. Pete Carroll is a very good secondary coach and they have A LOT of good corners in Seattle (how many times this year did a guy get hurt/suspended and they didn't miss a beat). You also need to look at improving teams. Every year there are teams that put it together and make a run. Nobody expected Rodgers to fall to us when he did. What if Manziel or Bortles fall to the Cardinals?

    I realize most will just snap out an automatic "no way", but the Vikings are a solid QB away from being almost as good as the Packers; and guess what, they're in perfect position to draft a guy like Bridgewater or Bortles. The Vikings defense isn't appreciably worse than the Packers and the only free agent on defense that matters for them is Kevin Williams and he shouldn't cost too much. On offense they only really need to re-sign Simpson. They have around $24m in cap space next year, an excellent oline, best RB in the NFL, good receiving group and a solid-to-good dline.

    My point isn't to project that Vikings/Cardinals will be better next year, it's to point out that you can't plan on your team improving just because other teams are declining. In 2010 I doubt anyone would have projected that in 2013 the Seahawks would have one of the best looking rosters in the NFL.

    Btw, all cap number are from: http://overthecap.com/2014-nfl-free-agency-salary-cap-overview/

    Excellent cap site and they actually have a free write-up on the Packers' upcoming free agency. Interesting read even though I don't agree with some of the analysis. It's free, though you're encouraged to donate $1 if you like the report.
     
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  24. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

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    Whenever you talk signing a free agent to some of these guys they automatically assume you mean spend a boat load of money which isn't the case at all.
     
  25. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    And you know Ted prob wont do it...

    But when he has signed just anyone people still complain

    You can make thread after thread demanding Ted to sign someone, but last I saw, no ip address from the Packers post here..


    In other words all it does is get the fan base on opposite sides of the issue, and everyone gets all ticked off
     
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