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Arm Chair NFL GMs. Always Brilliant AFTER the Fact...

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by NOMOFO, Jan 16, 2014.

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  1. NOMOFO

    NOMOFO Cheesehead

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    Like I said, most Ted Thompson haters are quick to point to, in classic "arm chair QB" fashion, all these "great" free agent signings once the season is over and the results are in. How many are honest about the much larger list of free agent signings that DID NOT turn out well? I notice how NONE of you Thompson critics admit to the MANY times Ted was correct and YOU were totally wrong about players.

    It took me all of 5 minutes to track down just a few of your reviews from last years class of free agents. Let me tell ya, thank God you're not the Packers GM! I won't name names because that's not the point. You know who you are. ...but here are just a few ...ahem..."expert" reviews you had last year along with how these players actually played:

    Bears sign OT Jermon Bushrod (5 years, $36M; $17.7M guaranteed):

    Expert Arm Chair Review of Signing When it Happened: I can't take this signing seriously, so I'm not grading it seriously either. The fact that the Bears think they're actually upgrading J'Marcus Webb at left tackle by obtaining Jermon Bushrod is an absolute joke. In fact, really don't think the front office has watched a second of Bushrod's tape.Bushrod allowed tons of pressures every week. The reason his sack total was so low was because Drew Brees released the ball so quickly. Bushrod's sack numbers will increase exponentially as he's trying to block for Jay Cutler.

    Fast Forward to End of Season-How Did it Work Out?:
    Chicago Bears left tackle Jermon Bushrod was one of 26 players named to USA Football’s All-Fundamentals Team, a designation to honor players “who exhibit exemplary football techniques for youth players to emulate.” USA Football named 11 offensive players, 11 defensive players and four special teamers to this year’s squad with Bushrod the lone Bears representative

    According to Pro Football Focus, he has allowed only three sacks and eight quarterback hits for the Bears this season. Last season, J’Marcus Webb surrendered seven sacks and required more help from tight ends and running backs.That Bushrod rarely needs help is significant. It allows tight end Martellus Bennett and running back Matt Forte to be involved in the passing game.


    Colts sign OT Gosder Cherilus (5 years, $34M; $10M guaranteed):

    Expert Arm Chair Review of Signing When it Happened: What the hell are the Colts thinking? Don't they actually want to make sure Andrew Luck is protected? There were so many quality right tackles available like Andre Smith and Sebastian Vollmer, so why bring in Cherilus for a ton of money? It's almost like they took advice from Millen himself.

    Fast Forward to End of Season-How Did it Work Out?:
    "I actually think Gosder has been ballin' out," said Castonzo, fresh off a dominating performance against two-time Chiefs Pro Bowl linebacker Tamba Hali. "I'm actually surprised there hasn't been more buzz about him for the Pro Bowl. He's been kicking a--, playing against a lot of good players and knocking them down one by one."For all the issues the Colts have endured from the interior of their offensive line, where injuries and subpar play have been ever-present obstacles, the Colts have enjoyed superb play from their offensive tackles. They have been much-needed stalwarts, not missing so much as a snap this season for a team that has started seven different offensive-line combinations.And they've done it while playing at a high level at two of the most critical positions on the field."You could say they've been the two pillars of strength," said quarterback Andrew Luck


    Falcons sign RB Steven Jackson (3 years, $12M; $4M guaranteed): A Grade

    Expert Arm Chair Review of Signing When it Happened: This is a great acquisition for the Falcons. Their most glaring offensive need was the running back position, and Jackson is a massive upgrade over the combination of Michael Turner and Jacquizz Rodgers. The concerns about Jackson are his age (30 in July) and workload (2,395 career carries), but even if he regresses, he'll still be much better than Turner was last season.

    Fast Forward to End of Season-How Did it Work Out?: You could argue that the biggest impact he's had on his team's season came in Week 1, when he dropped what would've likely been a game-winning touchdown reception against the New Orleans Saints. Given Jackson's age and the way he's been limited by injuries this season, does it make sense for the Falcons to bring him back next season or should the Falcons cut him and move on? USA Sports

    HONESTY! - I said last week that I was hoping we'd sign Jackson. The difference is, I'm well aware that Ted knows more about the game of football than I forgot and I've learned he's correct waaay more than he's wrong! ...I tend to think Ted's results MORE THAN speak for themselves.
     
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  2. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Funny that you mentioned two free agent signings that actually worked out pretty well, although you vehemently disagree and call everybody clueless if someone suggests the Packers could need some free agent help.
     
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  3. jaybadger82

    jaybadger82 Cheesehead

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    Threads like this make me regret the minute or two I spent skimming...
     
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  4. gatorpack

    gatorpack Cheesehead

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    Don't we have enough of these threads you could of posted this in? I agree with most of your post but don't really get this one.
     
  5. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    I agree, did this really deserve its own thread? It seems to be a theme running through a couple of others.

    Unfortunately there are a few Packers fans who hate Thompson; one in particular said he is a huge Favre-fan and bluntly posted he hated Thompson. Fortunately he's no longer posting here. But I don't view most of those who are advocating for Thompson to be more active in UFA as “haters”. IMO there’s nothing wrong with criticizing moves made by Thompson or his methodology. And there’s no one-way to build a championship team. Anyway, IMO calling anyone who criticizes Thompson or disagrees with the OP a "hater" is uncalled for.

    Thompson is on the far end of the spectrum regarding how to build a team. IMO those who are consistently successful in the league are much closer to that end of the spectrum than the other end of it occupied, for example, by Dan Snyder. But others have had success being more active than Thompson has been in UFA. Also, there’s only a few advocating for Thompson to “go nuts” and mortgage the future in UFA or by trading away multiple picks to move up in the draft to pick a player.

    I am a unabashed Thompson fan. First because with his hiring, Bob Harlan corrected a mistake he made going away from the organizational structure he implemented when he first took over with a powerful GM/VP who hired the HC and was in charge of all football operations. Second because unlike Mike Sherman (through no fault of his own), Thompson had trained for more than a decade to fill the role of GM, mostly under Ron Wolf. And finally because he takes the proper longer-term view of the franchise than a typical HC would. And agree with him and his methods or not he has a plan and is disciplined in executing it.

    Having said that, I do wish he would look to mid-priced UFAs to fill immediate needs like safety. I have heard him in interviews say that is the proper use of free agency, as opposed to counting on rookies (for example, Jeff Saturday's signing). Of course I don’t want Thompson to mortgage the future by trading a bunch of draft picks, particularly future ones and I don’t want him in the middle of the bidding wars that occur during the first few days or week of the UFA period. I want to him to stay toward that far end of the spectrum he occupies but I’d like to see him venture away from the extreme end of it as he has in the past. For example before the 2012 season he signed UFAs Benson, Saturday, Hargrove, Merling, and Muir. None were big money signings but I’d like him to sign a UFA safety for about their combined money (or a somewhat more) if there’s a mid-level UFA safety that makes sense for the team.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2014
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  6. NOMOFO

    NOMOFO Cheesehead

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    Actually... the point of the thread is nothing at all like the other threads. I'm making the very valid point that all these Ted Thompson critics can't be honest here.

    Ted Thompson is correct in probably 90% of the roster issues that get debated in arm chair land, but year after year he's crucified. (as the team just keeps on winning) It cracks me up that the Thompson critics only rant on about the player moves selectively AFTER the fact and the season is over. It's extremely interesting to see what these Thompson critics said about things last year and then take a look at how wrong the critics were!

    Another Expert Prediction from an outspoken Thompson hater from Last June:
    You forgot to add the fact that they beat us last year and made the playoffs. Not bad for an inferior team imo. I hate the Queens yes... but as a football person that team is a Qb away from being a major headache for us Packer fans and the rest of the NFC North.

    Fast Forward to January 2014
    2014 Vikings Record 5-10-1.
    2015 Super Bowl Vegas Odds
    Green Bay Packers:
    15/1
    Chicago Bears: 25/1
    Detroit Lions: 30/1
    Minnesota Vikings: 60/1 (only two teams lower in the entire NFL)

    Some of these are just monumentally off the charts hilarious. Methinks they are “just a tad” more than a QB away from giving anyone headaches, other than their own fans! lol
     
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  7. NOMOFO

    NOMOFO Cheesehead

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    I not once said they shouldn't consider a FA. Please show me where I said that. Do you know how many times now I have said I would welcome a decent priced FA to help fill holes like a Woodson or Picket did? ... but unlike you... I have faith TT will make the moves that are viable...AND ... silly me.... I tend to think the sky is not falling coming off another division title even after the injuries!
     
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  8. lambeaulambo

    lambeaulambo Cheesehead

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    The point is there is no point...next....LOL
     
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  9. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    Fail. That first example was me, and I'm anything but a TT hater. Most on here should already know that as my post count indicates I've been fairly active over the past 2 years. Seriously, does nobody (except Jack and LTF) even check the posting history? Know the actual opinion of the guy you're bashing before you assume and use him as an example.

    Bushrod got saved again by Trestman taking a page from NO (and why not? He had Kromer IIRC) and letting Cutler/McCown get rid of the ball quick.
     
  10. NOMOFO

    NOMOFO Cheesehead

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    lol... ahhhhhhhh...no...that quote was NOT from you. FAIL.

    The quotes I pulled were in fact from some of the biggest Ted critics on the forum.

    ...but like I said, I'm not interested in calling anyone out by name. The point...and yes it's VERY valid... is that it's easy to criticize Ted. Why not look back on our own opinions to see how often we've been correct and Ted was wrong? It proves that most arm chair GMs would not make very good GMs. More often than not Ted was correct and they were wrong. ... but nobody is honest about these things.
     
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  11. Oshkoshpackfan

    Oshkoshpackfan YUT !!!

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    No bashing here..... but if you are going to pick at people for being "selective", then watch what you post..... you were "selective" in posting only what examples that YOU found suited your needs for the thread...... pot, meet kettle. why not post a few quotes where people where actually corrct? or at least made valid points? Cherry picking my friend.
     
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  12. NOMOFO

    NOMOFO Cheesehead

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    There are a few times people are "correct" and times they are wrong. Nobody is suggesting otherwise. You may want to take a look at my own posts where I admitted I was wrong about certain free agent signings. The difference is, I understand Ted knows a hell of a lot more than I do and I understand it's silly to rant on about him, given his success.

    I do think it's funny how over-the-top animated some of these posts were in that the author was SOOOO sure about these players. Does it not speak volumes that they were pretty much as wrong as a person could be? I think it does.

    From the posts I read, Ted critics were at least somewhat "correct" about a free agent player's skills, "maybe" 50% of the time. (That is generous) So, before even getting into the debate over the value return based on how much the free agents were paid, 50% of the time they were so far off base it was not even close.

    Thankfully we have a general manager that understands it's not healthy to crap shoot free agent signing at a 50% accuracy rate.
     
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  13. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    I posted something similar a year ago, I guess somebody agreed with me.

    Never said your point wasn't valid. Also worth looking through the draft forums at who the pet prospects of certain posters were. The track level there, man. Heck, I though Gavin Escobar was going to be the next Antonio Gates!
     
  14. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    Yes, and those picks which were harshly criticized too. The best example I’ve seen was from a poster who is now banned so I won’t use his name since he can't attempt to defend himself. The reason I quoted this back at him before he was banned was because (I’ll be nice) he was very sure of his football knowledge and opinions, to the exclusion of all others.(And yes, I am cherry-picking but it's just too good to ignore.) This was the posters first post on a thread regarding a Packers 2009 draft pick:

    "are you guys joking... we gave up WAY TOO MUCH for him.. are you kidding me we give up three picks to draft a guy who was a backup de for all of his carrer besides the last 10 games of usc's season.... we just drafted a co special team player of the year in the first round... that was the worst pick we could have ever possibly made.. hes an undersized linebacker and an undersized de.. hes absolutely useless..id much rather have poppinga started at olb then him... i am completely dissapointed we drafted a back up/ speacial teams player in the first round...its embarrassing"

    And in his next post on that thread:"regardless if he was at usc or not he was still a back up linebacker in college... this isnt college anymore this is the nfl... if you can't even start in college how could i believe he will be amazing in the nfl.. i cant help but doubt him... he only started 10 games and that was because of injury to the starter..he ranked 4th on the team in tackles so that means we got the worst usc linebacker in the draft and we wasted a first rounder on him... "

    If you haven't already guessed, he was commenting on the trade up, and drafting of Clay Matthews, the “worst pick we could have ever possibly made”. :D
     
  15. NelsonsLongCatch

    NelsonsLongCatch Cheesehead

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    I'm with you on that. It makes me wonder about the person who takes that much time out to write something that long and ridiculous. Sometimes this forum just makes you shake your head.
     
  16. NelsonsLongCatch

    NelsonsLongCatch Cheesehead

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    Is that an actual percentage or the way you feel? Because an objective person can go through the past four drafts and make a case Thompson (an every other GM) is correct less than 90%.
     
  17. NOMOFO

    NOMOFO Cheesehead

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    lol....well...he was not alone. I specifically remember TONS of Packer fan talk about Clay being jacked on roids and that once in the NFL he would deflate and so on.

    ...and honestly... we pretty much all agree Ted's drafting on the defensive side the past few years have come up short...but... how many of us actually criticized the picks he made at the time? I think I would be accurate in saying there was NOT major opposition to many of Ted's D-picks.
     
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  18. NOMOFO

    NOMOFO Cheesehead

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    ummmm... I actually only wrote a few sentences. The rest was 100% copy and paste from world class arm chair general managers. You didn't even read any of it did you? You should
     
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  19. NOMOFO

    NOMOFO Cheesehead

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    Funny... when I go out of my way to try to prove a point you call me out on it. Then just a post later question my point and tell me to prove it! lol ...that's pretty funny.
     
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  20. NelsonsLongCatch

    NelsonsLongCatch Cheesehead

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    I was talking about the time it took you to write your piece and find other past posts... Just seems like a big ole waste of time to me.
     
  21. NelsonsLongCatch

    NelsonsLongCatch Cheesehead

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    I don't want you to prove anything. I was just curious if the 90% figure was actual or just an opinion. Simple one-word answer.
     
  22. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

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    Hey give the guy a break. It's the offseason and he's bored at home. One request tho..will you please bring back Charles Woodson Mr. Thompson?.... please? I know you don't like to spend a bunch of money on FA but Charles Woodson made you look brilliant at one point right?
     
  23. NOMOFO

    NOMOFO Cheesehead

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    Actual - proven fact. Wait, that's three words.
     
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  24. NelsonsLongCatch

    NelsonsLongCatch Cheesehead

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    Well that is pretty amazing that Thompson is hitting at a 90% clip. :tup:
     
  25. NOMOFO

    NOMOFO Cheesehead

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    I think we should take up a pool and pay for YOU to manage the Bears. That way the division would be a lock every year for the Pack.

    I know this bothers you to hear as a supposed Packer fan.... but.....ya..... Three Years removed from the Super Bowl Win. 5th Winningest Team the Past 10 years. anywhoooooooo..... carry on.... YOU are right. We need to win the Super Bowl every year or scrap the entire damn ship!
     
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