Aaron Rodgers is an Arrogant Jerk!

[Quientus]

Rodgers had permission to change the plays though, and from the sound of it that's not an unusual arrangement with quarterbacks in the NFL. I recall Favre talking about changing plays also. So I'm not sure why this is an issue exactly? I guess the claim is that he started to change the plays more often in recent years?

Maybe some of his play changes hurt the Packers in the game, but maybe some of them helped too. I don't think there's any way to say for sure. But I'd say the real issue with GB the last few years has been lack of talent.

I don't know if I would call Rodgers a subpar leader. I agree he's probably not a 10 out of 10.

I actually dont have a problem with him changing plays, however, from Reading various articles, The decline in production from The Packers (offense) wasnt solely on McLardy ... which is my point ... As some would claim it was ...

Rodgers likes to hold others to High standards, which is fine and expected, but it also means you as a Leader then have to “walk The talk”, which is what I Think Rodgers doesnt do. Coupled with The fact that as a Leader of a unit you cant publically show who is “in” and who is “out”, which, again, several players (not counting Jennings and Finley) have Said. A Leader has to be able to put himself above that, and just play ...

We Can agree on lack of talent, however, it hasnt been as bad on offense as some posters here Claim it has ...

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I do take your point about him comforting Crosby after his game from hell and it is admirable but if what Jennings is saying is true, I`d admire Rodgers more if he admitted what he is accused of and said "Yes I said it, and I deeply apologize for any offence it caused. It was a regrettable mistake" and lets put it to bed.
Just my two cents worth. Jennings might be ticking off fans attacking Rodgers, but having been accused of doing something years ago which hadn`t happened, I know I was bitter for years.

I understand Jennings taking the comment the wrong way but he should have approached Rodgers at some point during that season and tried to clear the air. Instead he started to bash the quarterback as soon as he signed with another team.

A) Driver did in fact allude to Rodgers leadership qualities ... most objective persons Can see this ... again its all over The web ...

And again ... it does show something about Rodgers leadership qualities ...

Why should Rodgers take responsibility for receivers running the wrong routes??? It seems you only want players to be held accountable as long as we talk about Rodgers.

There have been others who have been critical of Rodgers, who are NOT Jennings, Finley etc ...

Aside of Jennings and Finley which former players criticized Rodgers???

 

[longtimefan]

I actually dont have a problem with him changing plays, however, from Reading various articles, The decline in production from The Packers (offense) wasnt solely on McLardy ... which is my point ... As some would claim it was ...

Rodgers likes to hold others to High standards, which is fine and expected, but it also means you as a Leader then have to “walk The talk”, which is what I Think Rodgers doesnt do. Coupled with The fact that as a Leader of a unit you cant publically show who is “in” and who is “out”, which, again, several players (not counting Jennings and Finley) have Said. A Leader has to be able to put himself above that, and just play ...

We Can agree on lack of talent, however, it hasnt been as bad on offense as some posters here Claim it has ...

I'm sure you knew this.. But I'll bring it up again..

Nfccg vs giants.. I was told by someone with in the team this

At half time, MM was laying into Brett because of him not following the game plan.. Iirc, was along the lines, I should bench you..

After the int Bill Michaels said.. Bergstrom kicked his suite door open and said Brett played his last game here..

So, while Rodgers may have issues, Brett's way I believe is what led him to be traded.

Why don't you ever talk about Grant, Jordy, and the other players that said he is a great leader? Why is it always, negative?

Rodgers can't be perfect for every player and that's fine..

Mark Tauscher clapped when he heard Brett was gone. Actually said it in a restaurant, and loudly.. We got rid of him..

But Brett was loved by all

 

[Quientus]

I understand Jennings taking the comment the wrong way but he should have approached Rodgers at some point during that season and tried to clear the air. Instead he started to bash the quarterback as soon as he signed with another team.

How do you know Jennings didnt try that ? - Rodgers is well known to hold grudges and “freeze” ppl out ...

Why should Rodgers take responsibility for receivers running the wrong routes??? It seems you only want players to be held accountable as long as we talk about Rodgers.

It was an example, Driver was alluding to leadership ... I am pretty sure you Can see that ...

I
Aside of Jennings and Finley which former players criticized Rodgers

Aside from Driver, there is also Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila of ex Packers, Leroy Butler has also critized Rodgers that I remember ... I know there are also some who have defended Rodgers, but there are always 3 sides to a story ...

 

[Do7]

I understand Jennings taking the comment the wrong way but he should have approached Rodgers at some point during that season and tried to clear the air. Instead he started to bash the quarterback as soon as he signed with another team.


Why should Rodgers take responsibility for receivers running the wrong routes??? It seems you only want players to be held accountable as long as we talk about Rodgers.


Aside of Jennings and Finley which former players criticized Rodgers???

https://imgur.com/gallery/WgzBq5E

Why don't you ever talk about Grant, Jordy, and the other players that said he is a great leader? Why is it always, negative?

Ooo! Ooo! I know! Because it doesn't fit his narrative on his thoughts regarding Rodgers! Many people have brought that up before including myself and for some reason he disregarded that.

 

[Do7]

A) Driver did in fact allude to Rodgers leadership qualities ... most objective persons Can see this ... again its all over The web ...

And again ... it does show something about Rodgers leadership qualities ...

A) I promise to God we've been over this just before, and no he did not. He simply said he held others accountable for their mistakes rather than take the heat for them. As I said before only YOU interpreted as it being negative. Even Driver HIMSELF said he wasn't saying that to criticize Rodgers on his Twitter. So Argument Invalid!

And what does it show exactly? That he holds people to high standards just like himself? Why should he own up to someone else's mistake? Your boy Brady wouldn't do that. Brees wouldn't do that. Manning didn't do it? So why does Rodgers? Hmm?

B) I am curious ... you dismiss what other team mates have Said, you pretty much again dismiss those arguments, yet in The same breath use Janis, simply because Janis wasnt critical ... There have been others who have been critical of Rodgers, who are NOT Jennings, Finley etc ...

B) I want a list of all former TEAMMATES that have been on record that have been critical of Rodgers. You do not get to use Driver as I already reduced that point to moot. I'll wait.

C) It Cant be proved perce, but when your Leader is subpar it most likely does affect an end result, and Rodgers disregarding play calls most likely have cost The Packers some games ...

C) 1. James Jones has already confirmed that Rodgers has Permission to change the play as he sees fit if he sees it necessary.
2. What games in the past has Rodgers cost his team outside this past year? Especially in the playoffs? And what proof do you have that he changed said plays.

D) I dont watch Skip Bayless, as I dont really pay attention to him.

D) More power to you, but the more I listen to you on here, the more I am starting feel you're his equivalent on here. Especially with your criticism and negativity towards Rodgers.

E) I have *always* seen Brady more as a result of Belichick than vice versa, but I do acknowledge that Brady is 10X The Leader than Rodgers Can ever hope to be ...

E) 1. The Patriots are better run as an organization from head to toe, and they have been WINNING, getting to countless of AFC Championships and SB appearances. So it goes to no wonder as to why they are not openly criticized. I guarantee you if Brady hadn't been to as many SB's and AFC championships, we'd hear about him. Winning does that. It hides the ugliness of individuals. Because The Packers aren't winning, and because we have such a talent in Rodgers, people like to dissect as to why that isn't the case.

2. Example we celebrate Michael Jordan as one of the greatest players in NBA history, but we often disregard how much of a bad teammate he was. But because he has 6 rings he's looked in a different light and all the negativity gets swept under the rug.

F) I’ve Said time an again, had Rodgers been another Player (position) how Rodgers behaves and his attitude wouldnt be that of a Big deal, however, being a Leader that isnt an attitude that inspires, nor commands respect. As a (good) Leader, you have rise above **** like that and Lead by example. A good leader is also humble, something Rodgers has NEVER been ....

F) So you're telling me that Rodgers neither inspires or commands respect, nor does he lead by example?
With respect to all the moderators here, I call ********!

Also Rodgers may have been playful and sometimes can get full of himself at times but he's no different from any other QB. Case in point, 2007 prior to when your Patriots lost to The Giants, I seem to recall Brady scoffing when he heard that they were going to hold them under X amount of points? All QB's have egos. Brady included.

E) I Think I’ve seen 2 posts from you were you have been slightly critical of Rodgers, but only partially, as you again didnt really hold him accountable. With you its always something Else ..., because Rodgers in your mind is never to blame for anything ... - you’re like a lemming when it comes to Rodgers ...

...Bruh are you freaking serious right now? That is a lie and you know it.

Alright so humor me on this then. How is it Rodgers fault when

1. The defense gives up X amount of points? Especially game winners?
2. A player drops a pass right on the money to them?
3. A player fumbling the ball? Be it special teams or when they are on offense. (I've openly acknowledged and criticized Rodgers for holding on to the ball too long, mind you)
4. A player missing FG?

This is a team effort, but by your estimation based off what you're saying it's Rodgers fault when none of this goes accordingly. When I feel Rodgers could've done better and cost us a game, I'll call him out. But I ain't gonna nail him on the cross for our team's inadequence and ineptitude. Especially considering he's been the one thing that has kept us from losing many games. Bailing the team out time after time.

Smh.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

A) I promise to God we've been over this just before, and no he did not. He simply said he held others accountable for their mistakes rather than take the heat for them. As I said before only YOU interpreted as it being negative. Even Driver HIMSELF said he wasn't saying that to criticize Rodgers on his Twitter. So Argument Invalid!

And what does it show exactly? That he holds people to high standards just like himself? Why should he own up to someone else's mistake? Your boy Brady wouldn't do that. Brees wouldn't do that. Manning didn't do it? So why does Rodgers? Hmm?


B) I want a list of all former TEAMMATES that have been on record that have been critical of Rodgers. You do not get to use Driver as I already reduced that point to moot. I'll wait.


C) 1. James Jones has already confirmed that Rodgers has Permission to change the play as he sees fit if he sees it necessary.
2. What games in the past has Rodgers cost his team outside this past year? Especially in the playoffs? And what proof do you have that he changed said plays.



D) More power to you, but the more I listen to you on here, the more I am starting feel you're his equivalent on here. Especially with your criticism and negativity towards Rodgers.



E) 1. The Patriots are better run as an organization from head to toe, and they have been WINNING, getting to countless of AFC Championships and SB appearances. So it goes to no wonder as to why they are not openly criticized. I guarantee you if Brady hadn't been to as many SB's and AFC championships, we'd hear about him. Winning does that. It hides the ugliness of individuals. Because The Packers aren't winning, and because we have such a talent in Rodgers, people like to dissect as to why that isn't the case.

2. Example we celebrate Michael Jordan as one of the greatest players in NBA history, but we often disregard how much of a bad teammate he was. But because he has 6 rings he's looked in a different light and all the negativity gets swept under the rug.



F) So you're telling me that Rodgers neither inspires or commands respect, nor does he lead by example?
With respect to all the moderators here, I call ********!

Also Rodgers may have been playful and sometimes can get full of himself at times but he's no different from any other QB. Case in point, 2007 prior to when your Patriots lost to The Giants, I seem to recall Brady scoffing when he heard that they were going to hold them under X amount of points? All QB's have egos. Brady included.


...Bruh are you freaking serious right now? That is a lie and you know it.

Alright so humor me on this then. How is it Rodgers fault when

1. The defense gives up X amount of points? Especially game winners?
2. A player drops a pass right on the money to them?
3. A player fumbling the ball? Be it special teams or when they are on offense. (I've openly acknowledged and criticized Rodgers for holding on to the ball too long, mind you)
4. A player missing FG?

This is a team effort, but by your estimation based off what you're saying it's Rodgers fault when none of this goes accordingly. When I feel Rodgers could've done better and cost us a game, I'll call him out. But I ain't gonna nail him on the cross for our team's inadequence and ineptitude. Especially considering he's been the one thing that has kept us from losing many games. Bailing the team out time after time.

Smh.

Seems like a lot of the Rodgers hating nuts on here started coming out of the woodwork when he expressed his frustration about the Bills game. I for one really agreed with him because though the defense played lights out that day, he no doubt wanted the offense to quit sputtering, do its job and finish off Buffalo.

Now ... Could he have perhaps been a little more conciliatory in his press conference by calming down and saying something like, "though we did some things good, we need to start finishing off more drives and generating more big plays and we have a lot of work to do," or something like that? Sure, you could argue so.

But his sentiment was definitely not wrong that day.


I also really don't get the effort by some to turn Favre into a Saint and Rodgers into the devil. I'll tell you, I could find all kinds of YouTube videos of Favre being a gambler and being a reckless QB whether it was chucking some of those ridiculous hail Marys or doing those soft tosses into the end zone that defenders came way out of left field to intercept. I don't want to hear this garbage about Favre being humble and Rodgers not when he too acted as defacto coach under Sherman in Green Bay and got his own personal locker and a ride in the head coach's fancy car from the airport in Minny.

Now I'm not anti Favre at all because he mended the fence and came back even on our run to Superbowl XLV and gave Rodgers and the Packers props. But he sure had plenty of moments where his "arrogance" showed through and he did his thing.

You could probably drudge up some reason or other to **** on a good QB such as fans here did a few years ago when they thought Peyton Manning should leave the field to let Osweiler in the game, or when people dumped on Brady for destroying his phone during that deflategate witch hunt.

At the end of the day, it's stupid because they are accomplished people who have brought far more good than bad to the teams they've been on.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

It was an example, Driver was alluding to leadership ...

It's the only example of another player other than Jennings or Finley that you have been able to bring up though. And as some other posters have mentioned Driver didn't even mean it in a negative way.

Aside from Driver, there is also Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila of ex Packers, Leroy Butler has also critized Rodgers that I remember ... I know there are also some who have defended Rodgers, but there are always 3 sides to a story ...

There are definitely more players that have defended Rodgers than the ones who have criticized him. KGB played with Rodgers for only one of the seasons #12 was a starter and Butler never stepped a foot into a locker room with him. I'm sorry but they don't seem to be the best sources to trust on his leadership.

 

[rmontro]

It's the only example of another player other than Jennings or Finley that you have been able to bring up though. And as some other posters have mentioned Driver didn't even mean it in a negative way.

Ryan Clark, Mark Chmura, and LeRoy Butler have also criticized Rodgers. I mean, I don't think these criticisms amount to much, but it's not just Jennings and Finley, as people like to say.

 

[Do7]

Ryan Clark, Mark Chmura, and LeRoy Butler have also criticized Rodgers. I mean, I don't think these criticisms amount to much, but it's not just Jennings and Finley, as people like to say.

I have hard time taking stock in regards to players that aren't Rodgers teammates, talking about him. If they were former teammates then they'd have some credibility. But the way I see it they are also part of the outside looking in. The people that defended Rodgers completely outweigh those who don't.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

Ryan Clark, Mark Chmura, and LeRoy Butler have also criticized Rodgers. I mean, I don't think these criticisms amount to much, but it's not just Jennings and Finley, as people like to say.

It's the only example of another player other than Jennings or Finley that you have been able to bring up though. And as some other posters have mentioned Driver didn't even mean it in a negative way.



There are definitely more players that have defended Rodgers than the ones who have criticized him. KGB played with Rodgers for only one of the seasons #12 was a starter and Butler never stepped a foot into a locker room with him. I'm sorry but they don't seem to be the best sources to trust on his leadership.

I would just say LeRoy Butler has been tough on a lot of people and is just a real tell it like it is guy. He's said things like this

https://totalpackers.com/2018/01/leroy-butler-no-fan-ha-ha-clinton-dix/

Or this

http://content.usatoday.com/communi...t-favre-is-running-the-vikings/1#.XMeDCGkpAew

As to Chmura and whoever else, I'd never heard of them being behind a microphone or taking aim at current players ... Maybe they do. But how often do they go into the locker rooms and practice centers, hang out with the current players or do whatever?

Either way, this thread with one poster in particular is really grasping at straws here for anything to try and defame Rodgers or paint him into a nonexistent fictional character.

 

[Quientus]

I dont have time atm for a lengthy reply, however The web is littered with articles dating back to 2012, some even from The time Rodgers was drafted ...

The few things that they all have in Common is The aspects about his leadership and attitudes ...

I’ll be back later when I get time ...

I know some of you Will dismiss these outright, no surprise .. LoL

Just a few, as there are plenty;

https://amp.businessinsider.com/aaron-rodgers-relationships-packers-report-2019-4

https://m.cheeseheadtv.com/blog/does-rodgers-cultivate-relationships-with-teammates

https://sportsnaut.com/2018/12/winston-moss-fired-packers/

https://amp.packersnews.com/amp/92053540

http://amp.thecomeback.com/nfl/ex-4...they-chose-alex-smith-over-aaron-rodgers.html

https://lombardiave.com/2019/01/16/green-bay-packers-aaron-rodgers-leadership-2/amp/

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

This article is pretty good summing it up;

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/amp...ion-himself-packers/gipz4aapsvc01w7e18m7djoqm

There are plenty more, and Yes, what Driver Said was criticque of Rodgers, however polite ... Most people who Saw The interview would agree to that as also Can be seen by most outsiders views on it ...

Must be nice Living in Utopia, as some of you are

P.s Why are you bringing Favre into The discussion LTF ? I know I havent ...

And because someone went overboard, let me say this:

At NO point have I Said Rodgers is The only one to blame ! Quite The opposite ! All I have Said is that he Bears MORE of The blame than some of you are willing to admit and/or want to accept ...!

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

It`s been said here that some of those names of former players are merely outsiders looking in, but aren`t we ??
I`ll go on record that I`m not a big fan of him personally, as a person. He`s a great player without question but as a person ?? Nah....I don`t buy into him.
I recall seeing a TV programme once about Aaron, I think it may have been one of those GREAT NFL GAMES after we won the Superbowl ? I may be wrong, anyway in it it said that Aaron expected to be picked in the 1st round by his beloved 49ers and he wasn`t. He expected to be picked almost by every team and he wasn`t. The camera kept cutting back to him (In the programme) and his face was a picture of despair. WE have one Superbowl win with the multi millionaire Quarterback at the helm....ONE, and long after he has gone we will hopefully be Packer fans. My point is, we don`t know what he is like in the dressing room anymore any writer of these articles do. To me ? he doesn`t have the personality of a Brett Favre,(I think I just choked on my coffee there !). I get tired of the old complaints from fellow Packer fans when they say we are wasting HIS career, no, he isn`t getting it done wether it be because of lack of personnel or whatever. I watched u-tube the other day and they had a reporter from NY somewhere who to me made a valid point. Packer fans can have a mentality which allows them to critisise one of our own, but whoah betide anybody else from outside that does it. I don`t know, it might be a British thing but sometimes we as fans need to take off the rose tinted glasses and see things a bit clearer.

 

[Quientus]

(...)
Alright so humor me on this then. How is it Rodgers fault when

1. The defense gives up X amount of points? Especially game winners?
2. A player drops a pass right on the money to them?
3. A player fumbling the ball? Be it special teams or when they are on offense. (I've openly acknowledged and criticized Rodgers for holding on to the ball too long, mind you)
4. A player missing FG?

This is a team effort, but by your estimation based off what you're saying it's Rodgers fault when none of this goes accordingly. When I feel Rodgers could've done better and cost us a game, I'll call him out. But I ain't gonna nail him on the cross for our team's inadequence and ineptitude. Especially considering he's been the one thing that has kept us from losing many games. Bailing the team out time after time.

Smh.

https://www.theringer.com/platform/...226/aaron-rodgers-comebacks-green-bay-packers

Again ... Not all on Rodgers, but its not like there havent been opportunities ...

 

[Quientus]

I'm sure you knew this.. But I'll bring it up again..

Nfccg vs giants.. I was told by someone with in the team this

At half time, MM was laying into Brett because of him not following the game plan.. Iirc, was along the lines, I should bench you..

After the int Bill Michaels said.. Bergstrom kicked his suite door open and said Brett played his last game here..

So, while Rodgers may have issues, Brett's way I believe is what led him to be traded.

Why don't you ever talk about Grant, Jordy, and the other players that said he is a great leader? Why is it always, negative?

Rodgers can't be perfect for every player and that's fine..

Mark Tauscher clapped when he heard Brett was gone. Actually said it in a restaurant, and loudly.. We got rid of him..

But Brett was loved by all

I dont expect Rodgers to be perfect, hell, I dont expect him to be liked by all, - HOWEVER ... I do expect him to be a Leader and act as such ... - something i find Rodgers doesnt do alot ...

- If I lead like Rodgers, I would quickly find myself without a job ... A Leader does NOT openly critizice people in public like Rodgers have, while in The same breath praising a select few by name ... A Leader doesnt need to like everyone on his/her team, unit which-ever, BUT a Leader must not “play favourites” (openly) even though it Can be difficult at times. Nor does a “Real Leader” show if he/she dislikes someone openly ... - You keep that part behind “closed Doors” ... As a Leader you really cant “afford” to be as sensitive and hold grudges like Rodgers does ... it is detrimental, at it *will* come back and bite you ...

It has nothing to do with Winning (or losing for that matter), but everythibg to do with how you are presenting yourself, especially when you are “The Face of The Franchise” ...

- And no, chewing someone out during games is NOT The same as standing at a Press conference and throwing people under The bus ...

 

[longtimefan]

https://www.theringer.com/platform/...226/aaron-rodgers-comebacks-green-bay-packers

Again ... Not all on Rodgers, but its not like there havent been opportunities ...

O Jesus. That author says

.

A million things needed to go right for Rodgers’s legend-making moment, and most of them had nothing to do with him.

Yet wants to blame ALL of the failed 4th non come backs on Rodgers.

This is ridiculous. You won't change anyone's mind and this CONSTANT leadership fault you pin on him is old.

I suggest you and all of us focus on the 2019 season.

I just posted my last part on this and now will ignore you... As that's the only way to end this, as it's very well known this is all your after

 

[longtimefan]

Ryan Clark, Mark Chmura, and LeRoy Butler have also criticized Rodgers. I mean, I don't think these criticisms amount to much, but it's not just Jennings and Finley, as people like to say.

Chewy has blasted Brett too
https://www.chron.com/sports/texans/amp/NFL-notebook-Former-Packer-teammate-chides-Favre-1878700.php

Former tight end Mark Chmura, who used to be one of Favre's closest friends, blasted the Green Bay Packers quarterback on a Waukesha, Wis., radio station last week, accusing him of being selfish and greedy in delaying his decision to return to the team or retire.


"Where it's hypocritical is (that) he(Favre) is very critical of (receiver) Javon Walker, (that) he's not a team player, you know he (Walker) doesn't care about the team," Chmura said. "Well, what is he doing now?

 

[Quientus]

O Jesus. That author says

.

Yet wants to blame ALL of his failed 4th non come backs on Rodgers.

This is ridiculous. You won't change anyone's mind and this CONSTANT leadership fault you pin on him is old.

I suggest you and all of us focus on the 2019 season.

He isnt blaming all failed comebacks on Rodgers ..., but The stats show that in some close games, The Offense AND their “Leader” hasnt gotten The job done, despite, efforts from The defense who had kept Them in games ... for as much flak as The defense and offensive Line had gotten through The years, it wasnt always The defense O-Line’s fault, lack of talent, etc etc, as some Claims all The time ...

I for one am exited for this new season, but I’m not expecting “The World” ... as I’ve Said, succes would be a play off spot ... Winning The division again would be icing, but not something I expect ...

Chewy has blasted Brett too
https://www.chron.com/sports/texans/amp/NFL-notebook-Former-Packer-teammate-chides-Favre-1878700.php

And ? Chmura is right about that ... Favre being “wishy washy” was a detriment to The team, but that didnt mean Favre wasnt a Leader on The field and off it, as you very well know ...

Favre had (has ?) many faults, however, not being a Leader wasnt one ...

 

[longtimefan]

He isnt blaming all failed comebacks on Rodgers ..., but The stats show that in some close games, The Offense AND their “Leader” hasnt gotten The job done, despite, efforts from The defense who had kept Them in games ... for as much flak as The defense and offensive Line had gotten through The years, it wasnt always The defense O-Line’s fault, lack of talent, etc etc, as some Claims all The time ...

I for one am exited for this new season, but I’m not expecting “The World” ... as I’ve Said, succes would be a play off spot ... Winning The division again would be icing, but not something I expect ...



And ? Chmura is right about that ... Favre being “wishy washy” was a detriment to The team, but that didnt mean Favre wasnt a Leader on The field and off it, as you very well know ...

Favre had (has ?) many faults, however, not being a Leader wasnt one ...

Jesus..

Farve blasts walker for doing A then Farve does same.

Hypocrite ..

IMO that's not a leader . No matter what you say.. It's my opinion . Now stop this.. I'm done and ignoring you

 

[longtimefan]

This is now locked as it goes no where.