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Whats with all the Crosby hate.

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Lunchboxer, Dec 5, 2010.

  1. Wood Chipper
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    Wood Chipper Fantasy Football Guru

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    we need someone like longwell. i remember us winning games in clutch situations when it came to longwell kicking fgs
  2. erik_m_vos
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    erik_m_vos Cheesehead

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  3. GreenBlood
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    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    That's fine. People should get on his case for that. But to insist that he be cut just to sign another kicker who WILL do the same thing at some point is just plain ludicrous.

    It takes very little to screw up a kick. Ever notice the holder has a finger on the ground before the snap? He's telling the kicker that he's going to put the ball right there. If he misplaces it by one inch it can look like a good hold on TV but that's more than enough to completely mess up a kick, especially at longer distances and especially if the holder is a little late getting the ball down. But nobody every blames the holder unless the laces are crooked. BTW, he has had a different, completely green holder all three years.

    The error is in the idea that a single player loses a game. TEAMS lose games. I bet for every missed kick that you want to point to as costing us a game, you can also find a fumble, dropped pass, holding penalty, dropped INT, missed tackle, etc. that ALSO cost us the same game.

    Have you ever wondered why coaches and players rarely blame the kicker for losing a game? It's because they know there are things that THEY should have done better that could have won that game too.

    Yes, you expect your kicker to make a game-winning FG, but you also expect the rest of your team to play better than to be in that situation in the first place. To place all the blame on the kicker is disingenuous at best.
  4. GreenBlood
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    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    Who is "he?" And how do you know "he" will miss less? Have you done a proper analysis of each of Crosby's career misses? Have you identified how much of those were due to kicker error and how much due to holder or snapper error? Do you even know how to make such an assessment?

    Maybe I could just borrow your crystal ball. I was thinking about buying a Powerball ticket this week.
  5. erik_m_vos
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    erik_m_vos Cheesehead

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    13 of Crosby's 27 field goal attempts have been from 40 yards or more, he's completed 9 of those. There are only a handfull of kickers that have attempted more from that far and only a few that have completed a better percentage. Most of the kickers you mentioned except a few are making all their field goals from 39 or under
  6. GreenBlood
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    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    Do you remember Longwell in 2001? He was a disaster that year. The guy missed 9 out of 28 attempts under 50 yards that year.

    So far Crosby has missed 4 out of 19 this year from that range. Hmm...
  7. SpartaChris
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    SpartaChris Cheesehead

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    Stop being so melodramatic. No one here has said we expect absolute perfection. Find me one post where anyone here has said that and I'll shut up right now...

    <tapping fingers while I wait>

    Yeah, what I thought.

    What has been expressed here is complete frustration and a lack of confidence in Crosby's ability to perform. These feelings are completely justified.
  8. SpartaChris
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    SpartaChris Cheesehead

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    My bad. Perhaps I should have added "Late in the game, when it matters."

    More often than not he just doesn't get it done. Criticism of him is more than justified.
  9. Kitten
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    Kitten Feline Cheesehead Staff Member Super Moderator

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    You are making some very good points! As I've stated before, I tend to look at things from all sides and what you are saying makes sense. Crosby alone didn't lose any of those games. I would go on the theory you win as a team, you lose as a team.


    This is one of the things I love most about forums. i love debate and seeing other people's perspective on things. You can learn a lot by listened.

    I still don't think anybody on here expects Crosby or any other player to be perfect, no argument there. They simply expect him to play better than he has over the last 4 years.

    I wish Crosby the best. i see where you are coming from but I also see where some of the other cats are coming from. Situations like this are what makes it hard to be an owner!

    I honestly hope you are in the right and Crosby starts drillin em through those uprights. I like the guy!
  10. gatorpack
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    gatorpack Cheesehead

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    I like crosby I think some might have took my last thread about the ravens kicker the wrong way. I would take Crosby on a 53+fg over anyone else in the nfl. he is a 75-80 fg kicker and that is right up there with the guys everyone says is great. He also take more LONG fg attempts than other kickers which hurts his %.

    I just dont get why he cant kick the ball in the endzone more often. He has a big leg for fgs but not so big one on kickoffs.
  11. Kitten
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    Kitten Feline Cheesehead Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Interesting point. He is a better shot at LONG attempts than he is at short attempts. The long attempts may be reason enough to keep him around. We can win close games if he we can get into FG range and Crosby can nail a 50 yarder. Anybody know what's the longest he's ever hit? if I recall it's in the 50 yd range at least. He's got the distance he just needs to learn to target his short range accuracy. If he can't do that or can't learn to do that than I'd say we have problems.
  12. Wood Chipper
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    Wood Chipper Fantasy Football Guru

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    i dont cuz i was 11 and didnt start watching till the next year. thats only one year. crosby has had multiple average/poor years
  13. GreenGoldAngel
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    GreenGoldAngel Banned Banned

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    Man, I don't hate anyone...vicious word. But the point is that he earns a very good income to do a specific job. Crosby might be a very nice person but I care about job performance. As a manager, I had to fire very nice people because they just couldn't do the job. I suppose I could research this, but I'll just throw the question out: How many games has he won with a clutch field goal? How many games have the Packers lost because he can't make a clutch field goal? It maybe a mental thing. In golf I am great from tee to green, but when I putt from 10 feet away, my mind tells me I am going to 3 putt...and I do. At the very least, in next years training camp, bring in a couple of other kickers and make him fight for the job.
  14. TampaPacMan
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    TampaPacMan Cheesehead

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    This thread is a joke, right? If you can't understand why many Packers fans are upset with Crosby, then you are either his agent or related to him. Mason Crosby isn't consistent enough to be PK in the NFL, missing a 29 yard field goal is inexcusable. I have absolutely no confidence in the guy, and I wonder why McCarthy does. Thompson should have drafted a PK in last year's draft. If he doesn't draft a PK this year, I'll be very surprised.
  15. PackersRS
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    So you're saying that only Crosby can make holder and blocker excuses?

    Other teams don't have it?

    It's statistics. Kicks are statistics.

    Being in the low 70's in kicking percentage each and every year is bad, don't care how one spin it.

    There are at least 25 kickers with better percentage than Mason Crosby each and every year. How bout one of them?
  16. aaronqb
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    aaronqb Cheesehead

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  17. GreenGoldAngel
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    GreenGoldAngel Banned Banned

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    Please don't cherry pick. I know why you choose 2001.

    Longwell:

    1997 80% FGM
    1998 87.9%
    1999 83.3%
    2000 86.8%
    2001 64.5%
    2002 82.4%
    2003 88.5%
    2004 85.7%
    2005 74.1%
    Those were his Green Bay years, after he went to Minnesota and played in the dome...he had hit over 90%

    Crosby:
    2007 79.5%
    2008 79,4%
    2009 75%
    2010 73.9%

    Maybe it's just me, but I see a downward trend.
  18. GreenBlood
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    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    Sorry, but scapegoating the shortcomings of a team on one player is NOT justified.
  19. dansz15
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    dansz15 Cheesehead

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    Already has. I would take a guy who has half the leg but can kick in any situation without missing up as frequently in a heartbeat.
  20. GreenBlood
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    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    First off, I'm not his agent and I'm not related to him. I'm REASONABLE.

    Are you telling me he should be cut because he missed a 29 yard FG? Are you kidding me?! It's the first time he's missed one inside 30 yards in 4 years! I already did it once but do you want a who's who list of other guys who have missed shorter field goals than that? How about Hanson, Bironas (TWICE), Vanderjagt, Vinatieri, etc.

    Tell me. Why do you people want to hold the kicker to a higher standard of perfection than everyone else? I never hear this level of ugly vitriol when receivers drop passes or RBs fumble. Elite kickers are extremely rare. At any given time there is never more than 3 or 4 of them in the NFL at the same time.

    There's a false perception out there that kicking a football accurately from long distances is easy. There are extremely few people in the world who can do it at the level that you seem to want to hold all kickers to.

    Guys like Vinatieri and Vanderjagt only come along every few years. Actually landing one on your team is usually a stroke of blind luck because those guys don't become free agents until they're clearly on the downside of their career. Once in a while a team gives up on a good one too soon.
  21. GreenBlood
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    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    Yeah, to show some people with selective memory how piss-poor Longwell was at one point.
  22. GreenBlood
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    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    This year: Jets.

    Last year: San Fran

    2007: @Min, Wash, Den

    That's five and frankly he hasn't had many opportunities to win it or lose it. Usually we either win big or lose big. Like I said before, kickers never win games on their own and they never lose them on their own. Football is a team sport.
  23. Jess
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    Jess Movement!

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    Yes, but the 87% and 83% in the years before 2001 justified keeping him around.

    To date, Crosby hasn't had a year that would justify having any faith in him.
  24. GreenBlood
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    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    One thing that might help is if Slocum didn't play musical chairs with his holder every year. Kicking field goals is a 3 man effort and the best kickers have some consistency in that unit.
  25. Incubes12
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    Incubes12 Bay Harbor Butcher?

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    This is either Crosby himself, or it's GBP on an alt.

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