The Defensive Line - Run Stuffers vs. Pass Rushers

The discussion on "The CornerBacks" thread brought up issues with the pass rush and the DL and got me thinking about how the Packers' D linemen fit into the various roles in Capers' schemes. (I think the DL deserves its own thread; if any mod disagrees, please add this post to that thread.)

The job of the DL in the traditional base 3-4 is to stop the run and eat up blockers so the LBs can make plays. But Capers has been coaching defenses and the 3-4 so long and because NFL schemes are becoming more and more complex, I think all of his formations and schemes differ at least slightly from the "traditional" 3-4. As I mentioned in the Woodson-to-safety thread, Capers plays at least two versions of his base 3-4, Eagle and Okie. To date he has played Eagle more than Okie but Wilde provides hints that could change. In his Eagle formation the weak-side DE and the NT are basically lining up in gaps - off the shoulder of an O lineman - while the strong-side DE lines up (usually) directly across from the RT and plays 5-technique. It seems to me this base alignment is more conducive to having the DL one-gap and cause disruption in the backfield and/or pressure the QB. The Packers' staff have talked about playing "Corner Okie" more and in that set the DL will be in the traditional run-stopping/blocker-eating mode (DEs line up directly across from OTs, NT directly across from the OC) while the D backfield is tilted more toward stopping the pass with a CB coming in to replace a S (last season Shields replaced Peprah in this formation). In the Eagle, the DL is able to be more disruptive because the D backfield is the traditional 2 safeties and 2 CBs, so an "extra" safety is in to help vs. the run.

Being unpredictable is an important aspect of any defense so Capers runs all kinds of variations of either alignment and as I've posted over and over, he also has played 2 DL formations more than any other. On any particular play and in any alignment a DL could be one-gapping, two-gapping, or dropping back in coverage in a zone blitz.

The Packers have 12 DL on the roster. Here's how I break them down regarding run stuffers vs. pass rushers:

BOTH:
BJ Raji. He is IMO the best DL on the roster and the reason is he has both the girth and quickness to both shoot the gap and take on a double team. Perhaps his biggest problem has been he's so good it's difficult for the staff to give him the rest he should get in-game.
Mike Neal. Or I should say a completely healthy Mike Neal? While he doesn't have the girth of Raji he is incredibly strong. If he can recapture the combination of quickness and strength he briefly displayed upon his arrival in Green Bay he'd be a huge "addition" to the DL. If his injuries have robbed him of his quickness, he belongs in the "run stoppers" group. Unfortunately he'll be "resting" for the first quarter of the season.
Jerel Worthy. Of course it's too early to put him in this category but this is the best case scenario for him. He doesn't have the prototypical size of a 3-4 DE but he's the same size as Cullen Jenkins and Jenkins belongs in this group. Worthy has tons to learn of course - the early good news is that according to all the reports I've read, his first quick step looked legit in camp. A DL can't prove his worth sans pads but if he didn't look quick at this point, that would not improve with pads on.

RUN STOPPERS:
Ryan Pickett. Probably the best run stopper on the roster. His only drawback IMO is his date of birth.
Daniel Muir. Listed at 322 pounds NT/run stopper is likely his role if he makes the roster.
Phillip Merling. It's my impression his best chance at a roster spot is earning time at DE in the base D. Of course if he can show an ability to get after the QB that will greatly improve his chances, but I don't think he's shown that ability so far in his NFL career.

PASS RUSHERS:
Mike Daniels. Some were surprised by this pick because he's doesn't fit the usual 3-4 DL mold. I think he was selected almost exclusively to play in the 2-man line, the more obvious the passing down, the more likely he's in. At his size (6' 291 lbs.) he'll have to be a relentless disrupter. Lucky for him and us, that's his reputation. If he earns a spot in the nickel and dime, he's likely to become a fan favorite IMO.
Anthony Hargrove. At 6'3", 282 it's likely he'll have to contribute rushing the passer - he's probably too small to consistently take on a double team or be stout vs. the run. He'll get one-half the season off so if he's still around, he'll have fresh legs for the second half of the season. (There's some lipstick on the pig that is his 8 game suspension.)

DON'T KNOW/NEITHER:
CJ Wilson. 6'3" 290. Given the opportunity to secure a starting spot on a team in desperate need of a good DL last season he failed. He certainly didn't display anything remotely like a consistent pass rush. He was a 7th rounder in the 2010 draft.
Jarius Wynn. 6'3" 285. Given the opportunity to secure a starting spot on a team in desperate need of a good DL last season he failed. He certainly didn't display anything remotely like a consistent pass rush. He was a 6th rounder in the 2009 draft.
Lawrence Guy. 6'4" 304. A 7th rounder from the 2011 draft. The only thing I know about him is they like him enough to invite him to camp.
Johnny Jones. 6'4" 310. An UDFA signed by MIA in 2011, joined the Packers PS after being released. The only thing I know about him is they like him enough to invite him to camp.

Certainly a run stopper can record pressures and sacks and a pass rusher can tackle a RB. I attempted to put the DL in their general category as I see it. What'd ya think?

I agree almost completely with your classifications. Only differences I may suggest: I think CJ Wilson would definitely be in the "Run Stoppers" category, as I don't think he offers anything in the pass rush department (for the most part). Exact opposite for J. Wynn. He's supposed to be more of a pass rusher, but isn't very stout against the run. Unfortunately, neither of them are very good at what they are more than likely "supposed" to do best, so I can understand why you put them where you did.

I think I would classify Neal more as a pass rusher as opposed to both. Although maybe he will never regain the burst he once had in time for the Packer's to see. He's strong, but I think his aggressive style of play will lead to below average run defense. If he wants to be a good run defender, he will need to play more disciplined (although first, he'll obviously have to stay healthy.

I also think Worthy would be more of a pass rusher as opposed to both at this point, but I'll have to see him more to be able to say. I think he can be a good run player, but his quick first step and explosiveness make him an overall much better pass rusher . . . at least from what I saw of him in college. He will also likely have some difficulties in playing disciplined at times due to his aggressive "gap-shooting" style of play. I think it will be more a matter of coaching and learning that decides what type of player he will be, because the talent in there to be an all around beast.

If memory serves Guy was a solid run stuffer in college but was inconsistent at getting to the qb.
From what I've seen the pass rush DE usually means Bishop/Hawk is watching the run or one of the LBs are dropping into coverage

Excellent overview! Do you know about how often we used the Okie and Eagle in 2010?
Of course we had Collins and Jenkins on the field.

I truly believe Mike Neal is a bust. He needs to bulk up to get through big tackles and he looked so lost on the field last season when he was in there. No way could he fill Cullen Jenkins shoes. TT just missed this one.
As for Wynn and Wilson they play hard. But they are really not NFL caliber. On a number of squads they would be cut. Our LBs had to do too much run stuffing to cover for them. I remember in 2010 against Miami they both got to start due to injuries and Ricky Williams had his career resurrected. MM had to bring TJ Lang in on defense on a 4th and 1 just to get us enough beef to stop the drive.
Too bad we will only get half a season out of Hargrove. But in that light it will be right around the time one of our linemen go down and we'll need him.

DoddPower, that was my thought on Wilson and Wynn. Both big disappointments IMO as they didn't excel at either rushing the passer or defending the run. Regarding Worthy, it may not happen this year but I think they're hoping he can man the RDE spot in the base D and if he does, he'll have to be at least decent vs. the run. But it's too early to put either rookie in a group; both are where I think they have at least a reasonble chance of ending up.

milani, I'll quote my own post from August of 2011: "According to one article (on a pay site), Capers used the nickel D in 2010 on an astounding 68% of defensive snaps – that’s an unofficial stat since the NFL doesn’t keep track … I believe the author also wrote that Sam Shields, when healthy, was in on 73% of defensive snaps." I've also read more than one source that says he played Eagle more often than Okie and that coincides with my recollection of the NT lining up off the shoulder of the OC (usually at an angle) rather than straight up when they played a 3-man line. So if I had to guess I'd guess they played nickel or dime a little more than 70% of the time, Eagle a little less than 20% and Okie a little less than 10% but that's just a wild a$$ guess on my part.

Regarding Neal IMO it depends solely on whether or not Neal can return 100% to health. If he does, he doesn't have to bulk up, he's plenty strong - at one time he was the strongest player on the roster in the weight room and that includes players with 30 or 40 pounds on him like Raji and Pickett. For the brief period of time he was healthy I saw flashes from him that were very encouraging. If injuries have cost him his quickness I think he'll struggle but will probably still be better than Wynn and Wilson - not that that is a high hurdle to overcome. He could end up being a bust but IMO it will be because of injury, not lack of talent as was the case with Brian Brohm (who was also picked with the 56th pick of the draft) for example, the most "NFL ready" QB in that draft.

Hopefully Johnny jolly gets reinstated.