skibum55
Cheesehead
Is anyone else as worried about our pass defense as I am? 800+ yards in two games!! WTF. (Just ranting).
Pass Defense
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Wood Chipper
Fantasy Football Guru
3 interceptions
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skibum55
Cheesehead
true (and a fumble recovery) but still...400+ yards in the air!!
lambeaulambo
Cheesehead
I think teams have figured out the pack's achilles - aj hawk in pass coverage.
FrankRizzo
Cheesehead
Capers has been outcoached so far.
He'll adjust.
Turnovers have saved us, but you can't always count on them.
He'll adjust.
Turnovers have saved us, but you can't always count on them.
13 Times Champs
Cheesehead
Yes I'm concerned. Pretty sure we are at the bottom of the league at this point. An accomplished veteran and a green rookie have had their way with us. I think a part of it is the loss of Neal/Jenkins. We generate little pash rush. Only Matthews is getting there. Nothing from the opposite side where you expect pass rush in the 3-4.
PackersRS
Cheesehead
Too early. I'm a little worried, but it's too soon.
Kitten
Feline Cheesehead
That was a weird game. You've got to allow for these, no matter the team. Bad games happen even to championship caliber teams. The thing is, they were NOT bad the whole game, 400+ is a lot but they managed the win in the end. That is what is going to count. Lets see what they do next week against Cutler and the Bears and take it from there.
FrankRizzo
Cheesehead
at least we won.
2-0.
i think we were 2-0 last year then lost at chicago to fall to 2-1.
let us correct that next week at 3:15!
2-0.
i think we were 2-0 last year then lost at chicago to fall to 2-1.
let us correct that next week at 3:15!
slaughter25
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I agree they are getting torched on a weekly basis, but there were a few bright spots you can take from it. Today we found out jarrett bush can actually be a serviceable nickle/dime guy if we need him to be. He had a mistake or two, but he also had a few very nice plays. Also our opponents have been 3-10 on scoring TD's in the redzone thats a very low number and it seems we have been taking a more "bend dont break" attitude this year due to a lack of a real pass rush IMO.
Bogart
Duke Mantee
I think it will be fixed, but teams are giving us 100%. Look at the Saints last year, teams they would have easily blown out were giving them tough games.
Give it some time, the D will get it's clicking together. One thing for sure; we are NOT getting run all over by the running game.
Give it some time, the D will get it's clicking together. One thing for sure; we are NOT getting run all over by the running game.
PackPackPackers
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I am also "a tad" worried. The pass defense is a work in a progress. It seems like Nick Collins and Charles Woodson are the only two anchoring the secondary with their vast talent and skill. HOWEVER, it is way too soon, and I believe the Packers' pass defense will definitely improve these next few games.
Packerfury
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Well week 1 we were A. playing Drew Brees and B. got ahead by a lot early so they had to pass a lot.
This week a few things happened.
Number one, no Tramon Williams. And that IS a big deal. He's a much better cover corner than Charles right now. And he's faster than Charles. No way Smith has that kind of game against us if he's on him. Also, another thing Tramon's injury did is keep Charles simply covering one guy. That is not what he does. Charles Woodson blitzes, he roams the field, he covers the bigger targets a lot, etc.
Not to mention guys, 150 of his 400 came in the first quarter and another 70ish of it came in garbage time on that last drive. I think he just caught us off guard at the beginning. And at the end, that doesn't happen if Collins is back there.
And another thing that happened is we completely shut down the run. Like COMPLETELY so they had to pass all game. He had almost 50 passing attempts if I remember correctly
EDIT: Realized I did not answer the question. so no I am not worried. Hot qbs will not be stopped. Rules are too skewed offensively.
This week a few things happened.
Number one, no Tramon Williams. And that IS a big deal. He's a much better cover corner than Charles right now. And he's faster than Charles. No way Smith has that kind of game against us if he's on him. Also, another thing Tramon's injury did is keep Charles simply covering one guy. That is not what he does. Charles Woodson blitzes, he roams the field, he covers the bigger targets a lot, etc.
Not to mention guys, 150 of his 400 came in the first quarter and another 70ish of it came in garbage time on that last drive. I think he just caught us off guard at the beginning. And at the end, that doesn't happen if Collins is back there.
And another thing that happened is we completely shut down the run. Like COMPLETELY so they had to pass all game. He had almost 50 passing attempts if I remember correctly
EDIT: Realized I did not answer the question. so no I am not worried. Hot qbs will not be stopped. Rules are too skewed offensively.
Part of it is just tackling. Tackling has been terrible in the NFL in general, probably because of the short offseason, with extra guys in training camp, and no two a days. That adds up to not much time on fundamentals.
Part of it is that Tramon was out this week, and then Collins was out before Newton's last TD drive with the huge bomb to set up the TD.
Part of it is that the Packers have had untimely three and outs, some fast TD strikes, plus a TD and a TO on kickoff returns, which have led to the Saints and Panthers running 144 offensive plays in the first two weeks. And somewhat ridiculously, 102 of those have been pass plays (95 attempts plus 7 sacks).
Despite that, the per attempt average is still pretty bad... But let's wait until we see what happens against Jay Cutler next week. If Jay Cutler throws for 400, start worrying.
Part of it is that Tramon was out this week, and then Collins was out before Newton's last TD drive with the huge bomb to set up the TD.
Part of it is that the Packers have had untimely three and outs, some fast TD strikes, plus a TD and a TO on kickoff returns, which have led to the Saints and Panthers running 144 offensive plays in the first two weeks. And somewhat ridiculously, 102 of those have been pass plays (95 attempts plus 7 sacks).
Despite that, the per attempt average is still pretty bad... But let's wait until we see what happens against Jay Cutler next week. If Jay Cutler throws for 400, start worrying.
Yes I am concerned naturally.
I was really thinking Dom Capers was sleeping again during this game. A lot of the problem (from just my die-hard homer fan eyes view) to me is that WE HAVE NO PASS RUSH! Say what you want about Clay (using him as an example), but the truth is in both games he's been all but invisible for most of the game. Capers seems to be dropping him in coverage a lot more so far I noticed. The D Line guys are doing fantastic at stopping the run, but getting hardly any penetration, and the linebackers aren't getting home. We don't have to get sacks, we need to just get in the QB's face to alter throws, throw them off their plants and angles, etc. But we aren't doing that. Our blitzes haven't been too creative and we can send 6 and they all seem to get blocked.
I honestly feel our personnel is fine (we have good players), there's no way we should be down a player (Tramon/Sam/whoever) and look that bad. To me it's the scheme.
I was really thinking Dom Capers was sleeping again during this game. A lot of the problem (from just my die-hard homer fan eyes view) to me is that WE HAVE NO PASS RUSH! Say what you want about Clay (using him as an example), but the truth is in both games he's been all but invisible for most of the game. Capers seems to be dropping him in coverage a lot more so far I noticed. The D Line guys are doing fantastic at stopping the run, but getting hardly any penetration, and the linebackers aren't getting home. We don't have to get sacks, we need to just get in the QB's face to alter throws, throw them off their plants and angles, etc. But we aren't doing that. Our blitzes haven't been too creative and we can send 6 and they all seem to get blocked.
I honestly feel our personnel is fine (we have good players), there's no way we should be down a player (Tramon/Sam/whoever) and look that bad. To me it's the scheme.
okcpackerfan
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I like almost everyones posts in this thread, packers fans are far and away the smartest fans in the NFL.
packerfan4ever
Cheesehead
I'm not worried I know they gave up alot,in the passing game but they seem to atop them in the red zone when it counts.
Perhaps it's a little early to mash the panic button. As was mentioned above, these were two exceptional QBs the team faced. Call Newton a rookie, because he is, but that doesn't diminish the kid's raw talent. He's a force. It does, however, seem like opposing QBs are getting a second extra to read and throw in the pocket. The 3-4 is predicated on a lot of pressure packages from the Linebackers and Secondary. It seems like teams are doubling and chipping Clay Matthews. So where are the other linebackers?
Packerfury
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Actually our pass rush isn't that bad right now. It's not great either though
. If you look at just sacks as in the pure number itself and say "wow we have 7 sacks in 2 games, we are on pace for 56 sacks, we are doing great!" you would be wrong in saying so.
You have to look at sack rate. Sack rate is the percentage of times you are sacking a qb per dropback. So we would take 7/95 which if we round is 7.4 percent. That is a slightly above average rate. to put that in perspective, usually average is right around 6.5-7 percent.
Another good number I would like to have to look at is QB hit rate which is arguably more important than the sack rate but I can't find those numbers anywhere yet. But if you do find those numbers, the average is usually around 12-13 percent so you can measure off of that. Remember, to a quarterback, a hit hurts just as bad as a sack.
The only asterisk I would put next to these numbers are we have played 2 good offensive lines against 2 good qbs. Well at least one (Brees). Cam is very perplexing to me. 800 something yards, no wins, lotta good things, lotta bad things. His footwork is bleh. He gets tunnel vision, he often stalls on his throws (throws later than he should) and he has trouble hitting receivers in perfect stride. But he has one of the best arms in football. Flat out. And that can make up for a lot of negative things.
Our pass rush may very well look amazing vs the Bears...
. If you look at just sacks as in the pure number itself and say "wow we have 7 sacks in 2 games, we are on pace for 56 sacks, we are doing great!" you would be wrong in saying so.You have to look at sack rate. Sack rate is the percentage of times you are sacking a qb per dropback. So we would take 7/95 which if we round is 7.4 percent. That is a slightly above average rate. to put that in perspective, usually average is right around 6.5-7 percent.
Another good number I would like to have to look at is QB hit rate which is arguably more important than the sack rate but I can't find those numbers anywhere yet. But if you do find those numbers, the average is usually around 12-13 percent so you can measure off of that. Remember, to a quarterback, a hit hurts just as bad as a sack.
The only asterisk I would put next to these numbers are we have played 2 good offensive lines against 2 good qbs. Well at least one (Brees). Cam is very perplexing to me. 800 something yards, no wins, lotta good things, lotta bad things. His footwork is bleh. He gets tunnel vision, he often stalls on his throws (throws later than he should) and he has trouble hitting receivers in perfect stride. But he has one of the best arms in football. Flat out. And that can make up for a lot of negative things.
Our pass rush may very well look amazing vs the Bears...
Cutler leading the NFL in sacks again lol
13 Times Champs
Cheesehead
Actually I think the defensive line is doing ok. I see them getting a good push which they are supposed to do. But we aren't getting enough rush from our LB's which is where it mostly comes from in the 3-4. We are getting zero pressure from the side opposite Matthews. Another thing I've noticed is that both Brees and Newton get the ball out quickly. Our tackling has been God awful.
greenandgold
I'm Dirty Hairy Callahan
Oh gawd, if Cutler had a 400 yard game, I don't know what I would think.
TJV
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The Saints are just a damn good offense and as the season continues, we'll see where the Packers' D stands among their opponents having given up 27 points to their O. And I give Newton credit - for the most part he looked very good. But Packerfury is right - losing Tramon not only meant they were minus their best cover CB, it also took away Woodson's ability to apply pressure on the QB. But injuries can't be an excuse, right?
Another factor IMO is the lockout gave every team in the league, and particularly the Packers' opponents this season, time to study what Dom was doing last year. So in addition to the automatic motivation of beating the reigning champs, offensive coaching staffs had more time than usual to study Capers' schemes on D and to come up with ways to attack them.
I think another factor yesterday was the Packers played zone coverage more than usual because they were facing a mobile QB - you don't want the DBs with their backs to the LOS when the QB can take off running. Capers' likes to play man-to-man coverage because he has the DBs to do it and because it frees up blitzers to harass the QB. Not having Tramon and "having" to play more zone was a double wammy.
As for Capers getting out coached, yes they've surrendered a lot of yards but in two games they've allowed 3 TDs in 11 red zone possessions - about 27% and that's very good. And here's an excerpt from a jsonline story today quoting Ron Rivera, who knows something about defense:
"You've got to give them credit," said Carolina coach Ron Rivera, a defensive coordinator by trade. "They're a hell of a football team, and they're a very well-coached football team. You look at the red zone, and their play was outstanding as a defense. That speaks very well of what they did as a defensive staff."
BTW, in spite of their performance yesterday, I expect the Bears' O to play better against the Packers than they did last season just because it's the second year in the Martz offense and the Bears are always motivated playing the Packers. After their beat-down in New Orleans and after losing to the Packers at home in the NFC Championship game they'll be sky high. So the Packers offense better be prepared to score more points against the Bears than they did last season.
Another factor IMO is the lockout gave every team in the league, and particularly the Packers' opponents this season, time to study what Dom was doing last year. So in addition to the automatic motivation of beating the reigning champs, offensive coaching staffs had more time than usual to study Capers' schemes on D and to come up with ways to attack them.
I think another factor yesterday was the Packers played zone coverage more than usual because they were facing a mobile QB - you don't want the DBs with their backs to the LOS when the QB can take off running. Capers' likes to play man-to-man coverage because he has the DBs to do it and because it frees up blitzers to harass the QB. Not having Tramon and "having" to play more zone was a double wammy.
As for Capers getting out coached, yes they've surrendered a lot of yards but in two games they've allowed 3 TDs in 11 red zone possessions - about 27% and that's very good. And here's an excerpt from a jsonline story today quoting Ron Rivera, who knows something about defense:
"You've got to give them credit," said Carolina coach Ron Rivera, a defensive coordinator by trade. "They're a hell of a football team, and they're a very well-coached football team. You look at the red zone, and their play was outstanding as a defense. That speaks very well of what they did as a defensive staff."
BTW, in spite of their performance yesterday, I expect the Bears' O to play better against the Packers than they did last season just because it's the second year in the Martz offense and the Bears are always motivated playing the Packers. After their beat-down in New Orleans and after losing to the Packers at home in the NFC Championship game they'll be sky high. So the Packers offense better be prepared to score more points against the Bears than they did last season.
realcaliforniacheese
A-Rods Boss
We defiantly need to put more pressure on the QB, That's the secret to Cutler. Any good QB that has time in the pocket will pick apart a defense. We got those INT's because of stupid rookie mistakes. Course we were down Williams and Collins. Losing Jenkins has left a big hole in our pressure, we still haven't been able to fill. Matthews can't be effective it they are always double teaming and chipping him. I hope S'oto is able to give it a shot soon and Neal comes back a beast, hungrier than ever. Right now I just don't want to lose to the Bears.
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