Packers vs Broncos Game Thread: Mile High Rumble Edition

lambeaulambo

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Yep it is year 4 for Lovey..6 games complete out of 17 and he looks a lot like Hundley. He is an athlete which is obvious but the non touch passing, tunnel vision and happy feet all have me flashing back to the glory years of Randy Wright and Whitehurst. I figure the only direction 10 can go is up from right now. If he spirals downward he won't make it through the preseason next year.
 

tynimiller

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Yep it is year 4 for Lovey..6 games complete out of 17 and he looks a lot like Hundley. He is an athlete which is obvious but the non touch passing, tunnel vision and happy feet all have me flashing back to the glory years of Randy Wright and Whitehurst. I figure the only direction 10 can go is up from right now. If he spirals downward he won't make it through the preseason next year.

Yikes, I strongly disagree he has looked anything like Hundley personally. Haven’t thought of that as a comp at all.
 

Team Ronny

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Lafleur hasn't exactly exuded confidence in Love. How many times in the last few weeks have they had 4th and 3..or less (with favorable field position)and Lafleur decides to have Love try to draw the defense offsides? It's not like your going to make the playoffs!! Stop playing chicken!
 

lambeaulambo

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its all good lol
 

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ARPackFan

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Then how did we do it with Rodgers on his 2nd deal in 2010?

Easy - QB contracts had not gone crazy at that time.
Rodgers signed a five year extension in 2008 which had a cap hit of just under $14M in that year. That was only 12% of the $116M cap and the percentages of cap in the next four years (2009-2012) dropped to less than 8%.

This would be equivalent to signing a QB after his rookie deal for for $22.6 in 2023 with the next four year in the $16M to $19M range. There are currently 19 QBs in the NFL that average more than $24M per year. Number 20 is Jordan Love at $13.5M average per year.

https://overthecap.com/position/quarterback
 
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Seems like the defense needs to be better utilize and better much beefed up.
Amen. I’d like to see us either use 1 of our top 3 draft selections (Top 50) at iDL. We need someone who can take on doubles as a block eater and is substantial against the run.
 

adambr2

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If we write off Love after one season I would be shocked. On Sunday, I saw a QB that is only allowed to run the offense in "valet" mode. I saw a QB that isn't recognizing the coverages yet. One that pushes for completions when he should be taking what the defense presents. I see a QB who is missing a lot of throws, either behind in the short/intermediate routes or not on target when throwing long. Those things can get better as he learns the position. He has the arm strength but not the touch. I think that he has the vision but not yet the recognition. We didn't draft CJ Stroud or Andrew Luck. This will take some time to see what we really have, and nobody, nobody, knows yet. We all have opinions but none of us know yet.
One of the main concerns for Jordan Love coming out of Utah State was a lack of accuracy especially on medium to deep throws. One of our main concerns for Love is the exact same concern.

I get why people want to believe this is fixable with time and reps, and I'm sure that's the company line on it, but isn't it more likely that he's just one of many who can't throw accurately enough to start in the NFL?
 
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One of the main concerns for Jordan Love coming out of Utah State was a lack of accuracy especially on medium to deep throws. One of our main concerns for Love is the exact same concern.

I get why people want to believe this is fixable with time and reps, and I'm sure that's the company line on it, but isn't it more likely that he's just one of many who can't throw accurately enough to start in the NFL?
I don’t believe that. Nor do I think he’s shown that thus far. Watching his film study shows growth opportunities for him like any first year starting QB. However it also shows repeated errors by his TE and WR both in missed blocks and failed assignments. Even sometimes running the same route where they are covered by the exact same Defender, which is weird level stuff. There is zero chance those plays were designed that way. Jordan love is not getting help on many plays and he’s way too new to carry a team. Heck even Aaron couldn’t carry this team that I’m watching.

The primary talking point is his low completion %. It’s really like ~1.5% variation from another first year starter by the name of CJ Stroud. Who if you recall was pretty stellar at OHio State. Why is CJ struggling with completion %??
Other than that talking point, nearly every other possible statistic is near league average. Loves overall QB rating is actually exactly in the middle #17. It’s almost exclusively tenured Veterans that are ahead of Jordan in measuring total production

Now if Love was ranked #30 in ratings I’d be on board. He’s had mostly a bunch of novices working with a largely patchwork OL. Baks missed all but 1 contest. Jenkins missed 2 contests and parts of others. Aaron Jones has missed the majority of normal playing time for a RB1. We’ve been really dinged up and Jordan is still ranked #17? That says a lot to me. The question is what would he be doing with just David Bakhtiari and Aaron Jones healthy, plus 1-2 more upgrades and in his 2nd year. That’s an area we want to see if he still struggles. Even #12 would struggle with this patchwork
 
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El Guapo

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One of the main concerns for Jordan Love coming out of Utah State was a lack of accuracy especially on medium to deep throws. One of our main concerns for Love is the exact same concern.

I get why people want to believe this is fixable with time and reps, and I'm sure that's the company line on it, but isn't it more likely that he's just one of many who can't throw accurately enough to start in the NFL?
It's certainly possible that he will be a bust. Some of us just believe that it's way too early to make that determination.


Here are some pre-draft scouting profiles:

A big knock against him were his mechanics. Ron Jaworski isolated some footage of him during draft night, explaining that his ball position meant he couldn’t throw downfield.

An unnamed scout said, "He's a system quarterback. (He's a) 3-, 5-, 7-step guy. Can't create on his own. Panics under pressure. Gets flustered easy."

"He doesn’t have great ability to change the release of the football. He’s mechanically very rigid," the scout continued.

Former Titans scout Rich Snead wondered whether he had room to grow as a player, saying, "I like him. I just don't know if he's maxed out."

An unnamed AFC scout supplied one of the harshest evaluations. "I don't like him. He's a clone of Harrington and Boller. They all throw the same way. What have those guys done? Nothing. If you take him in the second round, fine," the scout said.


You might have guessed it by now. These were all scouting reports on Rodgers, who had to change his throwing mechanics over the first few seasons in order to throw the ball downfield. He went 6-10 in his first year and then 4-4 in 2009 before starting to figure it out in the second half of 2009. Up until that point, he routinely sucked in crunch time and fans paraded around Lambeau with signs damning Rodgers and Packers management.

I am not predicting that Love is the next Starr, Favre, or Rodgers. But I am happy to shame anyone that thinks they have Love figured out after merely 7 starts with far less weapons than any of those other guys had in their first season as a starter.
 
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It's certainly possible that he will be a bust. Some of us just believe that it's way too early to make that determination.


Here are some pre-draft scouting profiles:

A big knock against him were his mechanics. Ron Jaworski isolated some footage of him during draft night, explaining that his ball position meant he couldn’t throw downfield.

An unnamed scout said, "He's a system quarterback. (He's a) 3-, 5-, 7-step guy. Can't create on his own. Panics under pressure. Gets flustered easy."

"He doesn’t have great ability to change the release of the football. He’s mechanically very rigid," the scout continued.

Former Titans scout Rich Snead wondered whether he had room to grow as a player, saying, "I like him. I just don't know if he's maxed out."

An unnamed AFC scout supplied one of the harshest evaluations. "I don't like him. He's a clone of Harrington and Boller. They all throw the same way. What have those guys done? Nothing. If you take him in the second round, fine," the scout said.


You might have guessed it by now. These were all scouting reports on Rodgers, who had to change his throwing mechanics over the first few seasons in order to throw the ball downfield. He went 6-10 in his first year and then 4-4 in 2009 before starting to figure it out in the second half of 2009. Up until that point, he routinely sucked in crunch time and fans paraded around Lambeau with signs damning Rodgers and Packers management.

I am not predicting that Love is the next Starr, Favre, or Rodgers. But I am happy to shame anyone that thinks they have Love figured out after merely 7 starts with far less weapons than any of those other guys had in their first season as a starter.
Amen.
Another more recent example is Trevor Lawrence. The games I watched him play the last couple years? Trevor looked pretty bad as a 1st year NFL starter. Love on a bad day type games and cavalier with the football decisions.
Yes Love has had more NFL practices, but 1 live start against a starting NFL Defense is worth 5+ practices.
In a very short timeframe (3rd year) Trevor looks completely different. Some guys just figure it out with enough experience.

I’m also not so sure Sean Clifford wouldn’t be good enough start. He has a ton of experience (4+ years) at a good program.
 

El Guapo

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I’m also not so sure Sean Clifford wouldn’t be good enough start. He has a ton of experience (4+ years) at a good program.
He could be. I am always a fan of giving everyone a shot because some people are gamers.

However, in one of the podcasts that I heard towards the end of training camp, one of the guys (might have been Tom Silverstein) said that Clifford really lacks the arm strength to get the ball downfield right now, at least compared to Love. He said that the QBs were doing one of those drills where you throw the ball downfield into a barrel or bucket. Love's throws had good arc and velocity. Clifford really had to heave the ball up high in order to get it that far. Silverstein's summary was that NFL safeties would easily pick of Clifford if he tried to throw deep, unless he figures out a way to improve his mechanics and deliver the ball at an NFL level.
 

milani

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He could be. I am always a fan of giving everyone a shot because some people are gamers.

However, in one of the podcasts that I heard towards the end of training camp, one of the guys (might have been Tom Silverstein) said that Clifford really lacks the arm strength to get the ball downfield right now, at least compared to Love. He said that the QBs were doing one of those drills where you throw the ball downfield into a barrel or bucket. Love's throws had good arc and velocity. Clifford really had to heave the ball up high in order to get it that far. Silverstein's summary was that NFL safeties would easily pick of Clifford if he tried to throw deep, unless he figures out a way to improve his mechanics and deliver the ball at an NFL level.
Clifford executed the offense for an outstanding Penn State team that faced Michigan and OSU every year. He was limited as to how far he could go down the field. Is he more of a Doug Flutie type?
 

adambr2

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He could be. I am always a fan of giving everyone a shot because some people are gamers.

However, in one of the podcasts that I heard towards the end of training camp, one of the guys (might have been Tom Silverstein) said that Clifford really lacks the arm strength to get the ball downfield right now, at least compared to Love. He said that the QBs were doing one of those drills where you throw the ball downfield into a barrel or bucket. Love's throws had good arc and velocity. Clifford really had to heave the ball up high in order to get it that far. Silverstein's summary was that NFL safeties would easily pick of Clifford if he tried to throw deep, unless he figures out a way to improve his mechanics and deliver the ball at an NFL level.
Fortunately Love does not have that issue on the deep ball as the ball is not typically near anybody.
 

milani

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Fortunately Love does not have that issue on the deep ball as the ball is not typically near anybody.
Now Clifford probably has those limitations. I thought Matt Flynn had them as well. Bart Starr did not have as strong an arm as Unitas and many of the QBs of his day. But his mechanics were excellent and his ability to drop back under center was very swift. Yet Starr hit many a long pass because he knew how to force secondaries to come up. He knew exactly when to go long and he had receivers who could go up and get it.
 

milani

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It's certainly possible that he will be a bust. Some of us just believe that it's way too early to make that determination.


Here are some pre-draft scouting profiles:

A big knock against him were his mechanics. Ron Jaworski isolated some footage of him during draft night, explaining that his ball position meant he couldn’t throw downfield.

An unnamed scout said, "He's a system quarterback. (He's a) 3-, 5-, 7-step guy. Can't create on his own. Panics under pressure. Gets flustered easy."

"He doesn’t have great ability to change the release of the football. He’s mechanically very rigid," the scout continued.

Former Titans scout Rich Snead wondered whether he had room to grow as a player, saying, "I like him. I just don't know if he's maxed out."

An unnamed AFC scout supplied one of the harshest evaluations. "I don't like him. He's a clone of Harrington and Boller. They all throw the same way. What have those guys done? Nothing. If you take him in the second round, fine," the scout said.


You might have guessed it by now. These were all scouting reports on Rodgers, who had to change his throwing mechanics over the first few seasons in order to throw the ball downfield. He went 6-10 in his first year and then 4-4 in 2009 before starting to figure it out in the second half of 2009. Up until that point, he routinely sucked in crunch time and fans paraded around Lambeau with signs damning Rodgers and Packers management.

I am not predicting that Love is the next Starr, Favre, or Rodgers. But I am happy to shame anyone that thinks they have Love figured out after merely 7 starts with far less weapons than any of those other guys had in their first season as a starter.
One of Lombardi's criticisms of Starr was that he was too conservative sometime by refusing to throw a ball where there was even minimal risk. But he eventually figured out when the time was there to risk.
 

longtimefan

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Lafleur hasn't exactly exuded confidence in Love. How many times in the last few weeks have they had 4th and 3..or less (with favorable field position)and Lafleur decides to have Love try to draw the defense offsides? It's not like your going to make the playoffs!! Stop playing chicken!
And rodgers never tried
that?
 

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