With their 1st Pick in the 2018 NFL Draft the Packers select...

[Dantés]

Whats annoying is people disagreeing with me just to disagree cause they were wrong. All I heard before the combine was Sutton was basically a marginal athlete and wouldnt even time under a 7.0 3 cone etc etc. Not only did he test well but he blew the doors off with a 6.57 3 cone. Yet still there is all this resistance to him being a 1st round talent. Some experts have Sutton as a top 10 prospect which should be noted.

Yes, I get there isn't a Julio Jones type talent at receiver in this draft but there also isn't a Jalen Ramsey or Justin Houston talent type either. The Packers have needs at all three of those positions and its pretty easy to see of all the top prospects and where there likely to fall that Sutton will be the best player available that fits a need.

Get annoyed all you want.

What I said before the combine was that Sutton's biggest weakness is that he struggles to separate against man coverage. That's still absolutely true after the combine. His tape has not changed. Clearly there's a lot of athleticism for a WR coach to work with there, but he has to learn to use it. This is all so ironic-- last year you mocked me ad nauseum because of how much I value the combine for edge players. Now you're outraged that I'm not doing somersaults over Sutton's workout. Funny what happens in a year.

You're playing the martyr, but the real reason this is an issue is because you squat on a prospect and ram him down everyone's throats. It was the same way with Charles Harris last year. No one could bring up an edge player without you telling them they were wrong for not preferring your guy. You can't handle when others don't feel the same way about your pet prospects.

 

[Dantés]

If im "enamored" by anything its the Seahawks defense from 2012-2016. I like little guys too. Like a small Earl Thomas type safety that can switch directions on a dime and has range to cover sideline to sideline. But if you look at there corners they drafted they were mostly guys like Carlton Davis that they drafted in later rounds that had size,length and athleticism that they could coach up to be great NFL press corners. Its all about scheme and im trying to look at prospects with what Pettine's vision on defense has been in the past.

Edit: I also like tad undersized but faster and quicker LB's that arent coverage liabilities.

This is weird, because just about everywhere Pettine has been as a DC or HC, his best corner has been on the smaller side.

 

[brandon2348]

What I said before the combine was that Sutton's biggest weakness is that he struggles to separate against man coverage. That's still absolutely true after the combine. His tape has not changed. Clearly there's a lot of athleticism for a WR coach to work with there, but he has to learn to use it. This is all so ironic-- last year you mocked me ad nauseum because of how much I value the combine for edge players. Now you're outraged that I'm not doing somersaults over Sutton's workout. Funny what happens in a year.

You're playing the martyr, but the real reason this is an issue is because you squat on a prospect and ram him down everyone's throats. It was the same way with Charles Harris last year. No one could bring up an edge player without you telling them they were wrong for not preferring your guy. You can't handle when others don't feel the same way about your pet prospects.

FALSE. Ive named several other prospects I would be fine with at 14. You just like to read everything I say about Sutton and disregard all the other players I've posted about.

 

[Dantés]

FALSE. Ive named several other prospects I would be fine with at 14. You just like to read everything I say about Sutton and disregard all the other players I've posted about.

Here’s what you said yesterday regarding the conversations around guys not named Sutton:

100's of posts about players that are never gonna be there at 14. None of these players have "Ruben Foster red flags" which will cause them to slide.

This is becoming "la la land"

 

[brandon2348]

What I said before the combine was that Sutton's biggest weakness is that he struggles to separate against man coverage. That's still absolutely true after the combine. His tape has not changed. Clearly there's a lot of athleticism for a WR coach to work with there, but he has to learn to use it. This is all so ironic-- last year you mocked me ad nauseum because of how much I value the combine for edge players. Now you're outraged that I'm not doing somersaults over Sutton's workout. Funny what happens in a year.

You're playing the martyr, but the real reason this is an issue is because you squat on a prospect and ram him down everyone's throats. It was the same way with Charles Harris last year. No one could bring up an edge player without you telling them they were wrong for not preferring your guy. You can't handle when others don't feel the same way about your pet prospects.

.
And Harris had a promising 76 PFF grade as a rookie. Really cant say that for your "combine warrior" Tyus Bowser who recored a 60.

Next.

 

[brandon2348]

Here’s what you said yesterday regarding the conversations around guys not named Sutton:

I just names two players(Mo Hurst and Da'Ron Payne) who I belive present value at 14 whose names are not Sutton that will most likely be on the board.

 

[brandon2348]

When you panic bad decisions are usually made and thank god Gute is the GM. I understand some concern from fans regarding the corner position or edge if Packers continue to run 3-4 heavy scheme but once again to just reach for a corner or edge at 14 that isnt even a good scheme fit based on new coaching and ideas is moving "backwards".

Were in this position because of "Dinasaur Ted" and "Dinasaur Capers" and I have full confidence Gute and Pettine are gonna steer us clear with all the draft capital the Packers have.

 

[Dantés]

.
And Harris had a promising 76 PFF grade as a rookie. Really cant say that for your "combine warrior" Tyus Bowser who recored a 60.

Next.

You also mocked me for preferring Watt to Harris, so there’s that.

I have no idea why you think it makes sense to declare yourself correct after one season, one in which Bowser had more sacks than Harris despite rushing the passer less often.

But this pretty much illustrates my point. I told you I liked Harris but preferred these other guys. You flipped your lid.

 

[Dantés]

I just names two players(Mo Hurst and Da'Ron Payne) who I belive present value at 14 whose names are not Sutton that will most likely be on the board.

Progress!

 

[Dantés]

When you panic bad decisions are usually made and thank god Gute is the GM. I understand some concern from fans regarding the corner position or edge if Packers continue to run 3-4 heavy scheme but once again to just reach for a corner or edge at 14 that isnt even a good scheme fit based on new coaching and ideas is moving "backwards".

Were in this position because of "Dinasour Ted" and "Dinasour Capers" and I have full confidence Gute and Pettine are gonna steer us clear with all the draft capital the Packers have.

I can only speak for myself, but I don’t prefer other players at 14 to Sutton because of positional needs. I prefer them as prospects.

 

[brandon2348]

I can only speak for myself, but I don’t prefer other players at 14 to Sutton because of positional needs. I prefer them as prospects.

When the Packers start having a "logical premise" to all this high draft capital they have invested on there defense that falls in line with a working scheme I'll start being on board with it. Hopefully Gute and Pettine have a plan and personally I want it to be a switch to a 4-3.

Otherwise we could of had Mixon last year and with an add of a Courtland Sutton we could have an offense that would be record breaking which would give us a better chance at a Super Bowl.

If its same old same old then were going nowhere but 10-6.

 

[Dantés]

When the Packers start having a "logical premise" to all this high draft capital they have invested on there defense that falls in line with a working scheme I'll start being on board with it. Hopefully Gute and Pettine have a plan and personally I want it to be a switch to a 4-3.

Otherwise we could of had Mixon last year and with an add of a Courtland Sutton we could have an offense that would be record breaking which would give us a better chance at a Super Bowl.

If its same old same old then were going nowhere but 10-6.

How have the picks spent on defense not been part of a logical premise? You advocated for a defensive player last year!

 

[brandon2348]

How have the picks spent on defense not been part of a logical premise? You advocated for a defensive player last year!

Last year Capers was the DC and there was more talent at the edge position. You had a guy like Carl Lawson going in the 4th round. There just isnt that type of talent down the board in this draft. I guess I kind of like Lorenzo Carter as a sleeper pick. Dorance Armstrong is developmental.

Landry is probably the guy that the Packers might have a chance at 14. My main issue with Landry is he is more of a finesse 3-4 OLB. Im tired of finesse on this defense and its proven it doesnt work. Its just to reactionary for my blood. Too many reads and too many chances for mental mistakes

I want 4 down lineman and I want them to be able to disrupt and cause mayhem. I want "mean speed" in the middle of the defense and I dont care if there a tad undersized similar to Deion Jones or Telvin Smith(there are a ton of them in this draft). Neither of whom were drafted that high.

Then you get big physical press corners who you can draft in mid rounds that force everything to the inside where your speed guys are able to make plays.

Im really hoping Pettine and Gute have a similar vision and all these FA corners we missed out on flat out werent worth the $. Bringing in Mo Wilk and letting DR go suggests to me that there vision is similar to what mine is. So last year is last year and there are changes in front office and coaching staff.

We shall see.

 

[Dantés]

Last year Capers was the DC and there was more talent at the edge position. You had a guy like Carl Lawson going in the 4th round. There just isnt that type of talent down the board in this draft. I guess I kind of like Lorenzo Carter as a sleeper pick. Dorance Armstrong is developmental.

Landry is probably the guy that the Packers might have a chance at 14. My main issue with Landry is he is more of a finesse 3-4 OLB. Im tired of finesse on this defense and its proven it doesnt work. Its just to reactionary for my blood. Too many reads and too many chances for mental mistakes

I want 4 down lineman and I want them to be able to disrupt and cause mayhem. I want "mean speed" in the middle of the defense and I dont care if there a tad undersized similar to Deion Jones or Telvin Smith(there are a ton of them in this draft). Neither of whom were drafted that high.

Then you get big physical press corners who you can draft in mid rounds that force everything to the inside where your speed guys are able to make plays.

Im really hoping Pettine and Gute have a similar vision and all these FA corners we missed out on flat out werent worth the $. Bringing in Mo Wilk and letting DR go suggests to me that there vision is similar to what mine is. So last year is last year and there are changes in front office and coaching staff.

We shall see.

I think it’s cool if you want to see the Packers move to a true 4-3 and use big press corners. But I think it’s odd that you’re assuming that’s where we’re heading when Pettine has always run a base 3-4 (with plenty of even fronts in sub packages) and has featured a lot of short corners. I don’t understand why you think signing Wilkerson and trading Randall means we’re turning into the Seahawks.

But if that’s what you want, you better hope they find a single high safety. Thomas is what made that thing go.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

FALSE. Ive named several other prospects I would be fine with at 14. You just like to read everything I say about Sutton and disregard all the other players I've posted about.

You posting that it's pretty easy to see that Sutton will be the best player available of all the top prospects remaining that actually fit a need once the Packers are on the clock might explain why other posters around here disregard any other names you throw out there.

.
And Harris had a promising 76 PFF grade as a rookie. Really cant say that for your "combine warrior" Tyus Bowser who recored a 60.

Harris had a decent rookie season but definitely not one to brag about.

When you panic bad decisions are usually made and thank god Gute is the GM. I understand some concern from fans regarding the corner position or edge if Packers continue to run 3-4 heavy scheme but once again to just reach for a corner or edge at 14 that isnt even a good scheme fit based on new coaching and ideas is moving "backwards".

I agree that the Packers shouldn't solely draft for need but there's no doubt it factors into the decision. With that being said Gutekunst shouldn't pass on a prospect a tier above every other prospect left on the board even at a position of perceived strength. Sutton won't be that guy at #14 though.

I want 4 down lineman and I want them to be able to disrupt and cause mayhem.

You will be disappointed if you expect the Packers to use four down lineman on a significant amount of the defensive snaps.

 

[GleefulGary]

They werent just a good defense. They were elite and it was all built through the draft with mostly day 2 and day 3 picks and a couple free agent aquisitions.

You are precisly right that the vaunted LOB got a lot of credit for what the work of what guys were doing upfront. There corners were excellent at pressing giving that 7-8 man rotation upfront just a tad more time to disrupt. In fact most of the Seahawks takeaways were due to pressure and tipped and arrant throws.

The Packers actually have the makings of a dominant D-line that could disrupt. Get Da'ron Payne or Maruice Hurst with an emerging Montro Adams and that could push us over the top. Now that kind of pick at 14 I would be down for but to put the steering wheel and other parts of the car together without having the engine in place is backwards thinking.

There are several press corner prospect in the later rounds that can be coached up to successfull NFL press corners.

I don't disagree with much of this.

We still need a pass rusher. Landry is the best in the draft. He's the easy choice.

 

[Dantés]

I don't disagree with much of this.

We still need a pass rusher. Landry is the best in the draft. He's the easy choice.

Agree. You can't talk about their Super Bowl defense without talking about how much Cliff Avril brought off the edge.

 

[Dantés]

They werent just a good defense. They were elite and it was all built through the draft with mostly day 2 and day 3 picks and a couple free agent aquisitions.

You are precisly right that the vaunted LOB got a lot of credit for what the work of what guys were doing upfront. There corners were excellent at pressing giving that 7-8 man rotation upfront just a tad more time to disrupt. In fact most of the Seahawks takeaways were due to pressure and tipped and arrant throws.

The Packers actually have the makings of a dominant D-line that could disrupt. Get Da'ron Payne or Maruice Hurst with an emerging Montro Adams and that could push us over the top. Now that kind of pick at 14 I would be down for but to put the steering wheel and other parts of the car together without having the engine in place is backwards thinking.

There are several press corner prospect in the later rounds that can be coached up to successfull NFL press corners.

Honest question: I recall that you didn't like the idea of Vea because you didn't want a guy whose value was largely based on running downs. So then what attracts you to Payne? He's even less of a pass rusher than the former.

 

[GleefulGary]

If any player would be reaching for a need, it would be Sutton.

Sutton has a high ceiling, but his floor is real low. His tape just isn't high caliber.

The WR that Brandon hates, tore up the press CB that Brandon loves. Explain that?

Look. This is a poor WR class when it comes to top talent. A guy like Sutton is a 2nd round pick most drafts. There's no clearcut top WR, and it doesn't even look like there's a WR1 in the class.

We can say things like, "if we just drafted Sutton, we'd have a record breaking offense!", but there's no proof to it. Just conjecture. And what does Mixon give us that the combination of Jones/Williams don't? And without the issues.

Then we get to hear about what your preference of defense is Brandon, and if the Packers don't do that, then clearly they don't care about it/aren't doing it right. I mean, Pettine has had a few good defenses (and that's a vast understatement in case you didn't catch it), so I'll trust his opinion over yours. By a lot.

As for Landry, yeah, he's a speed rusher. Nick Perry is a power rusher. Personally, I don't care how a guy does it as long as it gets results. And speed does not equal finesse, these are still violent players. Landry didn't get 16.5 sacks in a year by playing patty cake with guys.

 

[brandon2348]

Honest question: I recall that you didn't like the idea of Vea because you didn't want a guy whose value was largely based on running downs. So then what attracts you to Payne? He's even less of a pass rusher than the former.

Did you not see Payne in the National Champ Game? He dominated and was in the backfield regularly and he also did his share of pushing the pocket in passing game. Payne is an animal.

Vea was pretty much a non-factor against lesser competition against Penn State. Vea is basically a Danny Shelton who is already a Cleveland Browns cast--off. Pass.

 

[GleefulGary]

Seattle also succeeded because they could spend on defense while Wilson was on a rookie contract. We, obviously, are not there.

 

[GleefulGary]

Did you not see Payne in the National Champ Game? He dominated and was in the backfield regularly and he also did his share of pushing the pocket in passing game. Payne is an animal.

Vea was pretty much a non-factor against lesser competition against Penn State. Vea is basically a Danny Shelton who is already a Cleveland Brows cast--off. Pass.

Did you not see Payne for the rest of the season? He certainly has talent, but he didn't play to it.

And yeah, Vea had struggles against PSU. I wouldn't take him at 14, just like I wouldn't take Payne. But I mean, if you want to go off individual games...

Sutton against TCU, Memphis, Arkansas State, and Stephen F Austin (quite the murderers row of competition there) COMBINED for 6 catches, 89 yards, and 2 TD's. That would be a good game. It's not a good 4 games though. Funny how you ignore that.

 

[brandon2348]

Honest question: I recall that you didn't like the idea of Vea because you didn't want a guy whose value was largely based on running downs. So then what attracts you to Payne? He's even less of a pass rusher than the former.

Yes, we would need a "Leo". IMO Davenport would be a better propspect for that particular role then Landry.

 

[GleefulGary]

Yes, we would need a "Leo". IMO Davenport would be a better propspect for that particular role then Landry.

What would you call Perry?

 

[brandon2348]

Did you not see Payne for the rest of the season? He certainly has talent, but he didn't play to it.

And yeah, Vea had struggles against PSU. I wouldn't take him at 14, just like I wouldn't take Payne. But I mean, if you want to go off individual games...

Sutton against TCU, Memphis, Arkansas State, and Stephen F Austin (quite the murderers row of competition there) COMBINED for 6 catches, 89 yards, and 2 TD's. That would be a good game. It's not a good 4 games though. Funny how you ignore that.

The difference is Sutton plays WR for SMU and had a mediocre QB and a Medicore team. If Sutton played for Alabama he would of only produced more and probably would of been a finalist for the Heisman Trophy. They would most likely be talking about him going top 5 in the draft.