With their 1st Pick in the 2018 NFL Draft the Packers select...

[GleefulGary]

The difference is Sutton plays WR for SMU and had a mediocre QB and a Medicore team. If Sutton played for Alabama he would of only produced more and probably would of been a finalist for the Heisman Trophy. They would most likely be talking about him going top 5 in the draft.

Yeah. Alabama was known for high caliber QB play the past two years. For sure.

 

[brandon2348]

What would you call Perry?

Look, you want to be able to have the flexibility and versatility to move guys across the line scheme specific to your opponenets weakness week to week. The Hawks had 3 Leos on there championship runs. The more the better. They moved Bennett inside to outside kind of like we could do with Mo Wilk as one example.

 

[GleefulGary]

The difference is Sutton plays WR for SMU and had a mediocre QB and a Medicore team. If Sutton played for Alabama he would of only produced more and probably would of been a finalist for the Heisman Trophy. They would most likely be talking about him going top 5 in the draft.

And Sutton was competing against mediocre talent, and had an NFL caliber WR on the field with him.

Excuses. Excuses. Excuses.

 

[brandon2348]

Seattle also succeeded because they could spend on defense while Wilson was on a rookie contract. We, obviously, are not there.

False, all they brought in was Bennett on a team friendly deal(kind of like Mo. Wilk) and Averil. The rest of the guys were drafted in mid rounds. The problem they encountered was they started giving out 3rd contracts to players and they lost Scot McCloughlan. That defense was built through the draft with virtually no 1st round picks.

So people need to quit pounding the table for more of the same crap thats been going on around here.

 

[GleefulGary]

Look, you want to be able to have the flexibility and versatility to move guys across the line scheme specific to your opponenets weakness week to week. The Hawks had 3 Leos on there championship runs. The more the better. They moved Bennett inside to outside kind of like we could do with Mo Wilk as one example.

You said we would need a LEO. We have a starting LEO, should Pettine use one in his scheme. We don't know that he will, but if he does, Perry fits that.

So yeah, we could use more. But need? I wouldn't go that far. You seem to think we're going to run either a 3-4 or a 4-3. You're wrong. We're going to run both, and we will primarily be in nickel. Not going to be very many 4 down linemen sets.

 

[Dantés]

Yes, we would need a "Leo". IMO Davenport would be a better propspect for that particular role then Landry.

Landry is far closer to the mold of a classic LEO, e.g. Cliff Avril, Chris Clemons, Vic Beasley, etc.

 

[Dantés]

Did you not see Payne in the National Champ Game? He dominated and was in the backfield regularly and he also did his share of pushing the pocket in passing game. Payne is an animal.

Vea was pretty much a non-factor against lesser competition against Penn State. Vea is basically a Danny Shelton who is already a Cleveland Browns cast--off. Pass.

If we're going to scout one game, did you not see Vea the year prior against Alabama?

Or maybe we shouldn't base assessments on one game?

 

[brandon2348]

And Sutton was competing against mediocre talent, and had an NFL caliber WR on the field with him.

Excuses. Excuses. Excuses.

There is Sutton and then there is everybody else in this draft class at WR position. Like it or not.

 

[GleefulGary]

Please tell me more about how Jalen Hurts is a better passer than the SMU QB. I wanna hear that explained.

 

[GleefulGary]

There is Sutton and then there is everybody else in this draft class at WR position. Like it or not.

You use single games to say players are bad, but you won't do it for Sutton.

Do you not realize how inconsistent you are? Do you even care?

Why is Sutton better than DJ Moore? Because he's bigger? Why is he better than Ridley? I mean, tell me something other than he's big and had a good 3-cone. Tell me why he struggled against mediocre competition.

Fact is, there is no WR good enough to justify us taking one at 14. That, sir, is a fact. Like it or not.

 

[brandon2348]

Please tell me more about how Jalen Hurts is a better passer than the SMU QB. I wanna hear that explained.

Were gettting off on tangents here. The real comparison should be "total body or work" and then comparison of size vs athletic traits and numbers followed by personal intagibles such as character, work ethic etc etc.

Your canoe is starting to sink. Need a paddle?

 

[brandon2348]

You use single games to say players are bad, but you won't do it for Sutton.

Do you not realize how inconsistent you are? Do you even care?

Why is Sutton better than DJ Moore? Because he's bigger? Why is he better than Ridley? I mean, tell me something other than he's big and had a good 3-cone. Tell me why he struggled against mediocre competition.

Fact is, there is no WR good enough to justify us taking one at 14. That, sir, is a fact. Like it or not.

Ive laid it all out over many many posts which makes me think "you dont read everything". Without posting it all out again this video explains 90 percent of why I like Sutton and is how I personally feel. What I would add to it is he is a "winner" and works extremly hard and has a good core belief system which will allow him flourish in the NFL. He has the "it factor" and is a gold mine propsect. He truley wants to be the best and has that Desean Watson type quality.

He needs to work on some route running but 90 percent of college WR's do. Everything he needs to work on are coachable things. You cant deny the total body of work and to do so is just plain ignorant. If we get a Mike Evans type player at 14 then its a "grand slam pick". Didnt Evans just sign for 82 million?

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[Pokerbrat2000]

I don't have a dog in this "fight" but if I am drafting a WR there are a few things, other than the obvious, stats and combine numbers, that I am looking really close at:

1. Level of competition they played against and how they fared. Yes, there are WR's that have made it in the NFL playing for small schools, but I want to see how these WR's stacked up against the best of college defenses.
2. The offense and more specifically, the QB they played with. I haven't looked closed enough at the top QB's in the draft and their WR's, but I am guessing they had some good stats. Is that because the WR was good or because they played with a top level QB?

I guess these two "measurables" can be applied to just about any position. Bottom line for me, there is so much more than just a players stats and combine. I want to be able to view how they would fare in the NFL and competing against guys that were the best of the best at the college level.

 

[brandon2348]

I don't have a dog in this "fight" but if I am drafting a WR there are a few things, other than the obvious, stats and combine numbers, that I am looking really close at:

1. Level of competition they played against and how they fared. Yes, there are WR's that have made it in the NFL playing for small schools, but I want to see how these WR's stacked up against the best of college defenses.
2. The offense and more specifically, the QB they played with. I haven't looked closed enough at the top QB's in the draft and their WR's, but I am guessing they had some good stats. Is that because the WR was good or because they played with a top level QB?

I guess these two "measurables" can be applied to just about any position. Bottom line for me, there is so much more than just a players stats and combine. I want to be able to view how they would fare in the NFL and competing against guys that were the best of the best at the college level.

Well Devante Adams played at Fresno State(lower level of competition) and dissapeared some against some of the top teams they played. But let me say its easy for a better team to eliminate one player in a game when thats all the team really has as a legitimate threat on offense. He also had Derek Carr throwing the ball to him. Played in an offense with vanilla route running too. Tested well at combine with decent speed but also had people questioning his ability to seperate in NFL.

Let me tell you what he did have. He had unique body control and the ability to seperate at point of catch along with explosion to do that. He was also big and strong. Some fools on here actually wanted us to draft Paul Richardson in front of him. Courtland Sutton has all that and is bigger. It would be a very exciting opportunity to get Sutton at 14. I would wager he would be our no.1 within 2 years and Adams is one of my fav Packers. Loved the pick when they got him.

 

[GleefulGary]

Were gettting off on tangents here. The real comparison should be "total body or work" and then comparison of size vs athletic traits and numbers followed by personal intagibles such as character, work ethic etc etc.

Your canoe is starting to sink. Need a paddle?

You realize you're the one who brought up Alabama, right? It wasn't me, that was you. Lol.

Does the total body of work include the 4 games where he accumulated 6-89-2 against mediocre competition, or is that ignored? Because if he gets a discount for mediocre QB play, that has to apply to Ridley and Moore. It doesn't go for just one player.

 

[GleefulGary]

Well Devante Adams played at Fresno State(lower level of competition) and dissapeared some against some of the top teams they played. But let me say its easy for a better team to eliminate one player in a game when thats all the team really has as a legitimate threat on offense. He also had Derek Carr throwing the ball to him. Played in an offense with vanilla route running too. Tested well at combine with decent speed but also had people questioning his ability to seperate in NFL.

Let me tell you what he did have. He had unique body control and the ability to seperate at point of catch along with explosion to do that. He was also big and strong. Some fools on here actually wanted us to draft Paul Richardson in front of him. Courtland Sutton has all that and is bigger. It would be a very exciting opportunity to get Sutton at 14. I would wager he would be our no.1 within 2 years and Adams is one of my fav Packers. Loved the pick when they got him.

Ummm...that is absolutely false.

Adams worst two games he had 5 catches each game. He had no other games where he was under 8 receptions.

And he still went in the late 2nd round in a good WR draft. He was absolutely better than Sutton coming out of college.

 

[GleefulGary]

Ive laid it all out over many many posts which makes me think "you dont read everything". Without posting it all out again this video explains 90 percent of why I like Sutton and is how I personally feel. What I would add to it is he is a "winner" and works extremly hard and has a good core belief system which will allow him flourish in the NFL. He has the "it factor" and is a gold mine propsect. He truley wants to be the best and has that Desean Watson type quality.

He needs to work on some route running but 90 percent of college WR's do. Everything he needs to work on are coachable things. You cant deny the total body of work and to do so is just plain ignorant. If we get a Mike Evans type player at 14 then its a "grand slam pick". Didnt Evans just sign for 82 million?

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He's a winner that didn't win. To which you'll reply, WR's don't help teams win that much! Then why draft an ok one at 14? I'm not ignoring his torso body of work, but you sure as hell are.

1) You don't know how hard or a worker he is or isn't. None of us do. We won't work out with him, we don't know his coaches. It's all fluff. You don't know.

2) You don't know his character. Please don't pretend you do. That's asinine.

3) He truly wants to win? Proof? How do you know? None of us know what he wants!!

Ignorance, my friend, is ignoring his poor route running, it's ignoring his struggles against mediocre teams, it's ignoring his inconsistent hands, it's ignoring his lackadaisical blocking at time. That, is ignorance.

You also never mentioned why he's better than DJ Moore or Ridley. You posted a video of two random schmucks that I've literally never heard of talking about Sutton. I can find a random video talking about why Sutton isn't good, but what does that do?

 

[GleefulGary]

And I like Sutton! I just think he's an awful pick at 14 considering his talent and what we need.

 

[brandon2348]

Ummm...that is absolutely false.

Adams worst two games he had 5 catches each game. He had no other games where he was under 8 receptions.

And he still went in the late 2nd round in a good WR draft. He was absolutely better than Sutton coming out of college.

I disagree but thats your opinion. If it was up to you we would be fielding the smallest team in the NFL and would get pushed all over the field. Great college playera don't always equate to great NFL players

I will take speed over size too sometimes but it needs be done with the correct premise. Im not interested in building a "Mickey Mouse Roster"

 

[brandon2348]

He's a winner that didn't win. To which you'll reply, WR's don't help teams win that much! Then why draft an ok one at 14? I'm not ignoring his torso body of work, but you sure as hell are.

1) You don't know how hard or a worker he is or isn't. None of us do. We won't work out with him, we don't know his coaches. It's all fluff. You don't know.

2) You don't know his character. Please don't pretend you do. That's asinine.

3) He truly wants to win? Proof? How do you know? None of us know what he wants!!

Ignorance, my friend, is ignoring his poor route running, it's ignoring his struggles against mediocre teams, it's ignoring his inconsistent hands, it's ignoring his lackadaisical blocking at time. That, is ignorance.

You also never mentioned why he's better than DJ Moore or Ridley. You posted a video of two random schmucks that I've literally never heard of talking about Sutton. I can find a random video talking about why Sutton isn't good, but what does that do?

You just dont get it. Dude, this isnt Florida. This isnt even a dome and the "greatest show on turf". Have you ever been to Lambeau for a game in December or January? I have and there is a reason they call it the "Frozen Tundra". All these little b*tch 4.3-4.4 guys you are in love with are gonna be ice skating out there. Thats why I continually refer to it as a "Ferrari with Snow Tires". The Packers have a serious home field advantage in playoffs and it makes sense to build team around that. We play in the cold and the elements. We need a surplus of big body receivers that have an amazing catch radius and can get up to compliment AR12. Ridley does absolutely nothing for this team. Id rather pay Cobb all the $ there gonna pay him opposed to Ridley. At least Cobb is tough as nails.

Here is a little article of which many are available to help you wrap your uninformed mind as to what Courtland Suton is and why he is gonna be a great Packer.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chasec...than-just-a-football-player-he-is-a-finisher/

 

[Dantés]

I disagree but thats your opinion. If it was up to you we would be fielding the smallest team in the NFL and would get pushed all over the field. Great college playera don't always equate to great NFL players

I will take speed over size too sometimes but it needs be done with the correct premise. Im not interested in building a "Mickey Mouse Roster"

This ******** is where you rub people wrong and the debate escalates way past where it needs to. Just because someone doesn't like the same prospect that you do, you assign motives to them... like wanting to build "the smallest team in the NFL" or a "Mickey Mouse Roster." What even is that? You cram Sutton down everyone's throats, just like Harris last year, you say trash like this, and then you act like a martyr that everyone argues with you about it. I know, I know-- you "don't care" if people are annoyed or whatever. But see, really you do. That's why you complain about how people respond to you.

Sutton is not my WR1 in this class, but I don't think it's crazy if he's someone else's. He's not a bad prospect at all, he's just a raw WR who happens to be bad, for the moment, at something that I consider to be very critical in our offense (separation). To a degree, the top of this WR class is more about what flavor you prefer-- Sutton is big, raw, and athletic; Ridley is fast and refined in the nuances of the positon; Moore is explosive and dangerous with the ball in his hands; etc.

Sutton is exceptionally athletic. I'm not ignoring his athleticism-- I think it's valuable, but at the WR position taking raw, athletic prospects in the first round can often backfire (e.g. Josh Doctson, Corey Coleman, Kevin White, DeVante Parker, Breshad Perriman, Phillip Dorsett, etc). And Sutton is raw-- no one expected him to have that combine because he very rarely demonstrated that type of quickness or explosive COD on tape. He very likely would be getting more attention had he played at Alabama-- that's how level of competition works. However, had he played at Alabama he would either a) be more developed and thus more valuable, or b) not be more developed and thus would have been less productive against that better competition. Considering what Mike Hughes did to him this last year, there's a real question about what would have happened to his production had he faced future NFL corners more regularly.

The Davante Adams comp is not a bad one. Adams went in the 2nd round and developed his skills. He came into his own in his 3rd season after some marked improvements to his game-- especially creating separation early in the down. I can see a scenario in which Sutton follows a similar path, and feel 2nd round is also a good spot for him considering that. I think he'd be a big reach at #14 and the great thing is, you don't have to feel that way.

 

[Dantés]

I'm feeling prophetic.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'm feeling prophetic.

Debating draft picks is like debating beer, everyone's taste buds differ. As you said, its ok to differ on opinions. I haven't seen many mocks by the so called experts agree much once you get out of the top 10. I'm in the camp that the Packers need help on defense the most and unless something drastic happens between now and the draft, that should be where the focus of at least 2-3 of their first 4 picks go.

Now if a guy like Saquon Barkley somehow fell into our laps, I would grab him. Otherwise, I don't see a lot of offensive guys that I think the Packers just have to have or they can't find similar talent in Rd. 2 or 3.

 

[Dantés]

Debating draft picks is like debating beer, everyone's taste buds differ. As you said, its ok to differ on opinions. I haven't seen many mocks by the so called experts agree much once you get out of the top 10. I'm in the camp that the Packers need help on defense the most and unless something drastic happens between now and the draft, that should be where the focus of at least 2-3 of their first 4 picks go.

Now if a guy like Saquon Barkley somehow fell into our laps, I would grab him. Otherwise, I don't see a lot of offensive guys that I think the Packers just have to have or they can't find similar talent in Rd. 2 or 3.

I agree. I'm not even married to the idea of taking defense. But other than the QB's, Barkley, and Nelson, I don't see how the top offensive prospects can hang with the best defensive players in this class.

 

[Dantés]

In other news...

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Adam Schefter‏Verified account @AdamSchefter
Draft factoid of the day: Washington DT Vita Vea's full name is Tevita Tuliakiono Tuipuloto Mosese Va'hae Faletau Vea. So Vita Vea works nicely.

I've been on the fence, but this settles it. Hard pass!