Why do the Packers struggle to beat good teams?

[rondon57]

I spent some time trying to think of the last time we had a victory against a playoff team(not counting playoff victories), and I couldn't think of one. So I decided to go back and look at our schedules and see when it was. The last time the Packers beat a playoff team was on December 2, 2012, with a 23-14 victory over the Vikings. That's a long time ago. In fact, since the start of the 2012 season, the Packers are 2-8 against other playoff teams(I'm including the loss to the Seahawks this year). That's terrible.

Why is this? My first thought was that it must be because Rodgers missed almost half of last season, but 7 of those loses came with Rodgers at the helm, the only exception being the loss to the Eagles last season. The two victories are against an unimpressive Vikings team and a statement victory over a solid, but not spectacular, 2012 Texans team. Do the Packers simply fold in the face of strong competition? It just seems a little sad that we had twice as many wins in the 2010 playoffs than we have had victories against playoff teams in the last two and a half years.[/

 

[rondon57]

I spent some time trying to think of the last time we had a victory against a playoff team(not counting playoff victories), and I couldn't think of one. So I decided to go back and look at our schedules and see when it was. The last time the Packers beat a playoff team was on December 2, 2012, with a 23-14 victory over the Vikings. That's a long time ago. In fact, since the start of the 2012 season, the Packers are 2-8 against other playoff teams(I'm including the loss to the Seahawks this year). That's terrible.

Why is this? My first thought was that it must be because Rodgers missed almost half of last season, but 7 of those loses came with Rodgers at the helm, the only exception being the loss to the Eagles last season. The two victories are against an unimpressive Vikings team and a statement victory over a solid, but not spectacular, 2012 Texans team. Do the Packers simply fold in the face of strong competition? It just seems a little sad that we had twice as many wins in the 2010 playoffs than we have had victories against playoff teams in the last two and a half years.

Because in 2010 ANY team could have got hot and ran through the NFC playoffs under the radar,it just happened to be the Packers,Giants did it too in the playoffs one year.

 

[rondon57]

yea maybe your right and this is why i back dom capers so much, cause he clearly doesn't have the tools on the field to get the job done.

Dom Capers...When he came here he took Aaron Campman,the best D-lineman at the time and tried to turn him into an OLB...FAILURE!,Mike Neal, not so good either,now he gets the best free agent DE since Reggie White and what does he do AGAIN!Peppers is a specimen and is doing ok but has Capers miscast him? and Clay Mathews stats at 1/2 way in the season are PATHETIC!Now is Mathews overrated or miscast in Capers defense?

 

[longtimefan]

Peppers is a specimen and is doing ok but has Capers miscast him? and Clay Mathews stats at 1/2 way in the season are PATHETIC!Now is Mathews overrated or miscast in Capers defense?

in a TV interview Peppers said wasnt going to come here..but then the Packers said we dont want you to put your hand in the dirt

That helped him to decide to come here

 

[rondon57]

in a TV interview Peppers said wasnt going to come here..but then the Packers said we dont want you to put your hand in the dirt

That helped him to decide to come here

Yes he did want to take on that role and is the best LB the Packers have,I just haven't been impressed with Mathews,my friends and I have been watching him nearly every snap and just are not seeing much from him,hope he can get it going soon and I am not a Capers fan,Peter King,ESPN wrote weeks ago"Packers must really like Dom Capers",Mike Florio said "I can't believe they didn't show Capers the door 2 years ago after the Niners and Kapernick shredded them in the playoffs."Get good at one thing before you change to something else.I had a feeling something was going on when they drafted Datone Jones 6'4"280lbs not a 3-4 type DE,now they are tinkering with 4-3 alignments and that NASCAR pkg with all LBs up front and the Nickle with 2 D linemen can't stop the run,seems he doesn't know what to do in these games.

 

[JBlood]

No defensive alignment will work if players don't know how, or don't want, to tackle. That is Capers' biggest failing, imo.

 

[mradtke66]

I had a feeling something was going on when they drafted Datone Jones 6'4"280lbs not a 3-4 type DE,

I disagree with that. I'd like him at 290, 295 instead of 280 (unsure of his official playing weight), but he's kind of a textbook 3-4 end.

 

[NOMOFO]

Packers just get physically whipped on the line of scrimmage against good teams. It has virtually nothing to do with the schemes. Last night NO opening up gaping holes and Brees felt very little pressure on most passes. Packers O line was completely manhandled. The Packers are a very bad team with a great QB. They will be one and done again in the playoff if they manage to squeak out 10 wins and get in as a wild card.

It's not accurate to say he felt very little pressure on most passes. He was getting the ball out really quickly but if you get a chance to re-watch the game... you'll see we actually didn't do a bad job at all of pushing the pocket and getting after him. He just got the ball out WAY too fast. I still put the pathetic run defense mostly on the LB. Seldom are blockers getting to the second line.

 

[Sanguine camper]

It's not accurate to say he felt very little pressure on most passes. He was getting the ball out really quickly but if you get a chance to re-watch the game... you'll see we actually didn't do a bad job at all of pushing the pocket and getting after him. He just got the ball out WAY too fast. I still put the pathetic run defense mostly on the LB. Seldom are blockers getting to the second line.

You don't have to convince me that the Packers ILB's suck. I had serious heartburn when TT didn't use his 3rd round picks to go after an ILB. I just don't see how the coaches can make up for such a glaring weakness

 

[red4tribe]

An issue I have with Capers is the focus he puts on turnovers at the expense of tackling. Not all QB's are going to turn the ball over, especially good ones. Look at what happened with Brees, he didn't turn it over and we got creamed. If we learned how to tackle properly, even half as well as the Seahawks, this defense would look much better. You will always be able to tackle well, if you know how, but you won't always be able to force turnovers.

 

[Shawnsta3]

An issue I have with Capers is the focus he puts on turnovers at the expense of tackling. Not all QB's are going to turn the ball over, especially good ones. Look at what happened with Brees, he didn't turn it over and we got creamed. If we learned how to tackle properly, even half as well as the Seahawks, this defense would look much better. You will always be able to tackle well, if you know how, but you won't always be able to force turnovers.

Unfortunately, the thing is, is tackling is extremely hard to teach under the current CBA. You can tell your players over and over again the correct procedure but the time you get for teaching them on field in practices is extremely limited.

 

[red4tribe]

Unfortunately, the thing is, is tackling is extremely hard to teach under the current CBA. You can tell your players over and over again the correct procedure but the time you get for teaching them on field in practices is extremely limited.

That may be true but I see teams like the Seahawks tackle very well, and I don't see why the Packers continue to struggle at in year and year out. The tackling, IMHO, is below average, which is not acceptable for a playoff team.

 

[rondon57]

I disagree with that. I'd like him at 290, 295 instead of 280 (unsure of his official playing weight), but he's kind of a textbook 3-4 end.

 

[rondon57]

So was Mike Neal but Capers,starting with Aaron Kampman has this obsession with making D-linemen into OLB's although if Jones has the frame he will fill out,after the Niners tore them up they tried to get faster but they don't have the personnel to make that switch,that may take a couple drafts but then if Capers is shown the door it could mean more changes with a new DC,may be years before we see improvement.Capers has had enough time to make that D work.

 

[greenandgold]

I can relate and feel frustrated myself at the recent playoff losing streak at Lambeau. And of course our losses to the 49ers when we used to dominate that team. And that's the way things go in the NFL. In waves. One year you got this team that's awesome and the next year it's a different team.
But you know what? We are fans and are cheering on a winning team which makes the losses a bit easier to bear because one day, one great day our team will win again and it will feel so awesome.
I really think or hope that they are going to be on a roll now. True, most of their wins are against non-playoff teams but maybe those weaker teams are just a warm up and will somehow help the Packers get ready for when they play against the stronger ones.
Have faith and stick with these guys and keep on cheering them on.
I believe that the Packers know about and will do all they can to keep their winning tradition alive.

When did we ever dominate the 49'ers? Except for the Jerry Rice fumble that wasn't should have won the game for the Packers, I don't remember beating them much.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

When did we ever dominate the 49'ers? Except for the Jerry Rice fumble that wasn't should have won the game for the Packers, I don't remember beating them much.

Before the current four game losing streak to the Niners the Packers won 13 out of 14 vs. San Francisco, the only loss being the playoff game in which Rice fumbled.

 

[NOMOFO]

Unfortunately, the thing is, is tackling is extremely hard to teach under the current CBA. You can tell your players over and over again the correct procedure but the time you get for teaching them on field in practices is extremely limited.

True..but if every team is playing by those same rules why is it not a problem with some teams? (Like Seattle and San Fran)

 

[realcaliforniacheese]

True..but if every team is playing by those same rules why is it not a problem with some teams? (Like Seattle and San Fran)

Because they were picking high in the draft for many years and getting the best players and natural tacklers. it's going to be interesting to see how long those two teams can sustain success over the next few years. They now are picking back where we are. But the new CBA had definitely had an impact. No more two a days, limits on the number of padded practices. You can't practice tackling at full speed if your not in pads.

 

[NOMOFO]

Because they were picking high in the draft for many years and getting the best players and natural tacklers. it's going to be interesting to see how long those two teams can sustain success over the next few years. They now are picking back where we are. But the new CBA had definitely had an impact. No more two a days, limits on the number of padded practices. You can't practice tackling at full speed if your not in pads.

You might very well be correct.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Because they were picking high in the draft for many years and getting the best players and natural tacklers.

Only three of the defensive players on the Niners roster were first round picks by them with Patrick Willis being the only guy picked in a draft where San Francisco had an earlier pick going into the draft. The Seahawks only have two defensive players on the roster who they picked in the first round in Bruce Irvin and Earl Thomas.

On the other side the Packers have five (and the only one being a top 10 pick out of these three teams in A.J. Hawk) so drafting earlier in the first round isn´t the main reason for both Seattle and San Francisco having better defenses.

Using free agency to plug some holes on defense helps, and it seems like they´re better coached defenses as well.

 

[red4tribe]

This team really needs a statement victory. Haven't had one since beating the Texans in 2012. Beating the Bears last year doesn't count, as the Packers were definitely the better team. Beating the Eagles or the Patriots in the coming weeks would be HUGE. And it would be statement victory.

 

[Sanguine camper]

Packers can't beat good teams because the defense can't get off the field. Only Tenn and Carolina have given up more first downs than the Packers. Seems like every time the offense scores the defense craps itself and gives up a long drive for a score. Defense is a mess again. While Rodgers can bail them out against average and poor teams the defense is so porous against good teams that the offense has to be nearly perfect just to keep up. Packers defense will be scorched by NE , Phil. Those games will be ugly. The other games that might be loses are Buff Nd Detroit. Right now the Packers are A 9-7 or 10-6 team. They have no chance of winning the Super Bowl because the defense is one of the five worst in the league.

 

[PackerDNA]

We're sub par in the trenches on both sides of the ball. Not strong or physical enough. Weak up the middle on defense. The ILB's are all below average players. No impact from the TE position.
In short, just too many issues to make me think this team as currently constructed wins the Super Bowl anytime soon, much less this season. I'd add that they don't adjust well. The Packers need to have things just so to be successful. When opponents take things away, they don't seem to be able to come up with answers to counter.
Matthews was supposed to take off with another legit pass rusher on board, yet he's having the worst season of his career. Why?
I see better than 90% of the blame laid on Capers. When does Thompson get some heat for not doing a good enough job bringing in talent?
Just getting a feeling that things are going stale with this regime, and that they don't have any answers other than 'stay the course'.

 

[Carl]

The defense played 6 solid games in a row prior to the Saints game, including five solid games by the defensive line. We have one bad game and all of sudden, the defense is terrible, we are 9-7 team and have no chance at the Super Bowl.

In response to our defense being good prior to the Saints, I've heard the offenses we played weren't that good. If that makes those six games not valid, then why doesn't the Saints good offense do the same?

The Saints offense is very good, especially at home. They've been winning by 20+ points a game during their primetime home win streak. Gotta give the other team credit when it's due rather than saying it's all the Packers' fault. Of course the Packers could have played better, but Brees and his offense were flawless.

We also had arguably our two best secondary players out. Missing those two against Brees is huge.

Posters are also ignoring how crazy the NFL can be week to week.

Are the Patriots bad due to the Chiefs blowout? The Redskins better than the Cowboys or Steelers better than the Colts? I could look at individual games and make some pretty crazy conclusions. Makes no sense to draw a conclusion from one game.

Posters who site many games and defensive flaws, that's valid, but just one, not at all.

 

[PackerDNA]

All valid points, Carl. But this- and these conversations and examples- have been going on for a while now. I don't trust this defense to get the job done in big spots.
By the way Carl, sorry for my pissy response to your post yesterday; had nothing to do with you, but man was I having a bizarre day.