de_real_deal said:
de_real_deal said:
We could have had Randy Moss huh? Care to explain how you know this and what facts you are basing this knowledge on along with the sources?
I'll spare you the time, don't look, you won't find it because its not true. Randy Moss wanted to play for a Super Bowl contender.
Check this article out. He talks about how he was overwhelmed by the chance of being a Patriot.[/quote]
Right, but back when the Packers were the only interested team in his services, we sat on our hands trying to bargain them down from a 3rd rounder to a 4th rounder or whatever. This went on forever and ever. Anyone doubt whether Moss was worth any draft pick the Raiders wanted?? Not a cancer, not a distraction(except to opposing secondaries), not a malcontent, not washed up, not lost a step, not lost his jumping ability. Still the most valuable or 2nd most valuable receiver (T.O.) in the game.
Oh well,.....
I'd take Moss over TO for the record.
So many rumors about this and it's kind of ridiculous.
I know Moss spoke with Bill Bilicheck and Mike McCarthy the night after Day 1 of the Draft. I know the Packers were in the thick of things cause Reggie McKenzie confirmed it in an interview the night of the Moss deal to New England.
Here is what I read and heard.
I read that New England offered a 4th and Green Bay offered a 5th. I read that Moss
went to New England because he only wanted a 1 year deal and the Packers wanted a 2 year deal. I also heard Moss had some say in where he wanted to go.
The FACT is if Moss wanted to be a Packer he would've been a Packer. The reason he's not is because who wouldn't want to play for the Patriots during this time. It's kind of like everyone wanted to play for the Packers, Cowboys, and 49ers in the mid 90's. In the mid 00's it's all about the Colts and Patriots.
I understand this. Im saying we should have wrapped this deal up way, way, waaayy before the draft before others got interested. Every day that passed was like torture because i knew the longer it went on, the less likely we were to get the guy. These rumors were swirling like 2 - 3 months before the draft if im not mistaken. The draft is the time that New England became another potential suitor. What idiot would pick the Packers over the Patriots.
things were also said by packer mgmt. to dissuade moss from coming here. Stuff like public apology to packer fans, etc over the playoff/butt wipe game. This stuff was discussed on the forum pre-draft. Im sure some never heard about this and will want proof. I could dig up these threads but im not wasting an hour looking for them. Its true.
de_real_deal,
You are right about getting this wrapped up in time and many knew it could have been done ( no matter what we thought of Moss ). It is still being debated as evidenced by this recent piece ( Posted below ). Bottom line is we could have had him but Management dropped the ball on this one big time. See Oct 14, 1007 piece just for starters:
Posted October 14, 2007
Pete Dougherty column: Thompson's biggest blunder: Not getting Moss
By Pete Dougherty
Lovie Smith and Steve Mariucci said it all about Randy Moss at the NFL scouting combine in 2005.
I asked both coaches what they thought of Minnesota trading Moss out of the NFC North Division that offseason, after he'd become such a problem for the Vikings that they sent him to the Oakland Raiders for, in essence, the seventh pick in the 2005 draft.
"Moss is one of the all-time great players to play the game," said Smith, the Chicago Bears' coach. "So, any time one of your division opponents loses someone like that, you have to be excited."
Said Mariucci, who was Detroit's coach: "He's a great player and now he's elsewhere. It's that simple."
Moss was, and remains, a player who tilts the field, though he had some major, sometimes prohibitive, warts. Moss is a player who can strike fear into opponents like few of his generation, but who, because of his shortcomings, could have been had on the cheap. There might have been only two teams that could have made it work with him: New England and Green Bay.
That's why General Manager Ted Thompson's biggest mistake in what's turned out to be a good Packers offseason wasn't failing to find a good running back, but was failing to wrap up the trade for Moss in the week leading to the draft.
Quarterback Brett Favre isn't qualified to be a general manager, but he justifiably was upset when Thompson let Moss slip away to New England at the 11th hour.
Favre knows Moss, and Favre's agent, Bus Cook, has been a longtime Moss adviser. Add in that Favre was one of maybe two or three quarterbacks Moss respects, and a Packers-Moss relationship had a chance to work. Not to mention the price was cheap enough that if Thompson and coach Mike McCarthy didn't like Moss' influence in the locker room, they could have cut him at a palatable financial loss.
Thompson has taken far more heat for doing nothing more to upgrade the Packers' running game than drafting Brandon Jackson in the second round and DeShawn Wynn in the seventh round.
I don't buy it.
Free agency offered no substantial gain. The draft had only one realistic possibility: trading up from No. 16 overall to No. 11, just ahead of Buffalo, to select California running back Marshawn Lynch. But with Moss, there was a chance for something special.
First, Thompson was right in not competing with Houston to re-sign halfback Ahman Green, who's in major decline, not worth the $8 million in first-year pay Houston gave him and not surprisingly has missed the last two games because of a knee injury.
In free agency, there was only one good running back, Tennessee's Travis Henry. The cost? Denver paid him a $6 million signing bonus and will pay him a $6 million option bonus next year.
This for a player with two major red flags on his resume: He's one positive drug test away from a one-year suspension and he's fathered nine children with nine women. Broncos coach Mike Shanahan guaranteed $12 million to this guy. Now that's a major risk, and one that probably won't pay off. Henry failed a drug test recently and is playing while appealing that positive test.
What about Chris Brown? The Tennessee halfback was available last spring, and it didn't go unnoticed that he rushed for 175 yards on 19 carries in the Titans' opener. Since, he's gained 99 yards on 33 carries for a 3.0-yard average.
Via the trade market, Thompson could have gone after San Diego's Michael Turner. But Chargers GM A.J. Smith wanted at least a first-round pick, and nobody knows whether LaDainian Tomlinson's backup is good enough to be the guy for another team. Pass.
Buffalo sent Willis McGahee to Baltimore for two third-round picks and a substantial financial investment: $15 million in signing and option bonuses that are all-but guaranteed. That's too pricey for a guy who's never averaged more than 4.0 yards a carry for a season.
Thompson can be criticized more justifiably for not trading up to get Lynch, whom Buffalo drafted at No. 12 about 1½ months after trading McGahee.
The price for Thompson to move up from No. 16 probably would have been a second-round pick. Steep, no doubt, and if he's a bust, you've lost two draft picks, not just one. Knowing what we know, however, it would have been worth it.
But Thompson didn't do it, and miscalculated in projecting Jackson as a viable option to start as a rookie.
Regardless, the failure to trade for Moss was by far the bigger mistake. Why? Because Moss, for all his formidable foibles, offered the possibility of the highest of rewards — far higher than any of those running backs — at an incredibly low financial risk.
"It's all about getting rare players," said a former NFL scout who follows the league closely. "This guy is a rare player."
Thompson could have finished that deal before the draft if he'd offered Moss a one-year contract instead of two, and a straight $3 million salary (plus about $2 million in incentives), rather than insisting a substantial portion of the $3 million come in weekly bonuses paid only if Moss was on the 45-man game-day roster.
Moss balked at the roster bonuses and second year of the deal, and hoped for a better offer the first night of the draft. New England swooped in with the same deal, minus the roster bonuses and second year, and Moss spurned the Packers for the Patriots.
Its unclear whether it would have cost Thompson a fifth-round pick or the fourth-rounder New England spent, but he could have had that deal done Thursday or Friday of that week.
Of course, trading for Moss, 30, is easy to argue now that he's playing at an MVP level (34 receptions, seven touchdowns). There's no guarantee it would have gone this way in Green Bay, or that it will continue to in New England, for that matter. Moss rarely has been a good teammate, he can be a major boor and for most of his career, he's only done well as a front-runner.
The point is, this was a low-risk move on a player who had a lot to prove after two seasons in the NFL dregs in Oakland. But let's say it didn't work. With that contract and the Packers' salary-cap space, they could have cut him loose. There would have been no future financial repercussions.
There's reason to think it could have worked as well with the Packers as it has in New England.
Moss has performed well in New England in large part because of Tom Brady, an elite leader who has Moss' respect as possibly the league's best quarterback. Moss has Grand Canyon-sized character flaws, but several scouts this week said there's no denying his love for football and his competitiveness when he feels he has a chance to excel. They were adamant he's a much more stable and reliable person than Dallas' Terrell Owens, not to mention a more gifted player.
"This guy's a competitor now," another NFL scout said.
Moss is known to have great respect for Favre, just as he does for Brady. So, everything was in place for an amicable relationship in Green Bay: Cook as a common dominator and intermediary and Favre's hard lobbying on Moss' behalf, which suggests the quarterback would have gone to great lengths to ensure it worked out. The Packers could have done like the Patriots and put Moss' locker next to their quarterback to help that chemistry work.
Yes, the Packers might have ended up spending a fourth- or fifth-round draft pick to rent Moss for a year, but there's a chance they would have re-signed him, especially if Favre returned for another season. Either way, the Packers would have added the best big-play receiver in football to a good receiving corps that would have rendered their run-game shortcomings even less important.
"These are two guys on the back nines of their career," the first scout said of Favre and Moss. "It could have been magnificent: two guys having fun playing football again. Ted (Thompson) didn't take the opportunity. I don't understand that."
op:
