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When Woodson comes back, T. Williams should be benched...

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Mr. StyleZ, Dec 30, 2012.

  1. PackFanNChiTown

    PackFanNChiTown Bear Fan's Bane

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    Think that was last year, he was outstanding in 2010.

    Can't see them moving Woodson back into the starting CB position, with his age and history of injuries they NEED to find his replacement in the offseason.
     
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  2. Southpaw

    Southpaw Endorphin Junkie

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    He's a rookie. It's understandable. Not necessarily excusable. Tramon is in his what? 4th season? Come on now.

    Alas though, we expect too much from Tramon. Usually undrafted players go undrafted for a reason. But a lot of fans like to look at one game or a few games and hold that player to those expectations all the time.
     
  3. GreenBlood

    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    Between Shields, Hayward, House and Williams I'm pretty sure his replacement is already on the roster. I think Hayward is the #1 guy next year and the other three could find themselves in any order from #2 to dime back.
     
  4. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Because Woodson hasn't been able to cover good WRs down the field for a few years.... like Tramon does.
    You say Tramon is riding his 2010 playoff run, but he played good this year, and Woodson hasn't been able to cover people without holding them for about 3, 4 years now.

    Woodson can help at safety though because he's so smart.
     
  5. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    I'll agree that Tramon should be benched, but for one reason and one reason alone, and its not that he can't play the position. In the beginning of the year MM said that the guys that tackled would be the guys that play, if you don't tackle, you don't play. As a coach, you have to stick to your word, any detriment caused to the team is the direct fault of the benched player at that point.
     
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  6. Alex

    Alex Cheesehead

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    I'd like to believe that but if he isn't benching Crosby no one is getting benched for anything they do. While McCarthy is a good coach there's a lot of things about him that bother me, especially today.
     
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  7. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    This was an issue he specifically called out the team for at the beginning of the year. While I don't think anybody will hit the bench, I can't say I'd be surprised.
     
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  8. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Hayward is too slow to play on the island. He's your nickel corner.
     
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  9. GreenBlood

    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    Since when? He's done fine when he's played CB. Playing CB is more than raw speed. It's the ability to anticipate and react. If a guy runs a 4.2 he's going to be a lousy CB if his reaction time is slow and he can't make good cuts.
     
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  10. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    Hayward got burned in the slot by Wright on a TD throw. Speed can be a factor
     
  11. GreenBlood

    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    It's only one of many though. You don't just automatically put the fastest guy at CB. Devon Hester is wicked fast. He's a horrible CB.
     
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  12. Mr. StyleZ

    Mr. StyleZ Banned Banned

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    Casey Hayward is faster than Tramon.. so now what?

    A brief google search showed that..

    Hayward:4.57 40
    Williams: 4.59 40
     
  13. burt packerack

    burt packerack Cheesehead

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    Quickness and agility is more important than speed at corner. You need to be able to twist your hips and make breaks faster to keep up with the receiver.
     
  14. NorthWestCheeseHead

    NorthWestCheeseHead Cheesehead

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    I know this reflects the prevailing wisdom since they time the 40 at the combine and all. But I don't really find the 40 time to be the end all when it comes to determining speed. It is just a strait line dash, only WR route that reflects that is a streak really, everything else has some sort of cut or juke to it. How fast can they follow a WR through those cuts? How fast is their closing speed? Etc.

    I don't know, I just wouldn't point to 40 time as the definitive representation of how "fast" someone is.
     
  15. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    For me 40's just say how fast he is..I think the cone and other agility tests give better indication of his talent
     
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  16. 7thFloorRA

    7thFloorRA Cheesehead

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    I would rather have a slower guy who is consistently in the correct position than a fast guy who has to rely on his speed to recover from being in the wrong position.

    As far as Tramon and most of the other D-backs. Would MM please take them to the olympic training center in the off season and have them schooled on basic wrestling technique. Once they learn the concept of a double leg take down and how to gain body leverage and a mechanical advantage they might finally understand some basic concepts of tackling.
     
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  17. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    Thought the leg whip was illegal
     
  18. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Williams field speed is much higher than that number. Heyward, not so much.

    "Nickel corner" is not a pejorative, by the way. Taking 70% of the snaps makes it a "starting position", more so than Pickett. To say he's not fast enough to play the island has nothing to do with his other talents.
     
  19. Harrison McCaslin

    Harrison McCaslin Cheesehead

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    Are you guys kidding me? Tramon Williams has proved to be a rising star CB in the league! He has not had poor performance just because his INT count is low. He is a Pro Bowl caliber cornerback, and because he had on unsportsmanlike conduct penalty called on him, you think he should be benched? You're out of your mind. If the packers defense is gong to succeed, they need Hayward, Shields, and Williams starting at CB, and Burnett(he's no good, but he'll have to do), and Woodson starting at the two safety spots.
     
  20. Harrison McCaslin

    Harrison McCaslin Cheesehead

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    If there is one defensive back player that needs to sit on the bench, it's Morgan Burnett. I've seen kickers that tackle better than him.
     
  21. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    Burnett was excellent for much of the season.
     
  22. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    Williams should be benched because he didn't tackle, and MM said you don't tackle, you don't play. The reason we were upset is because he blatantly avoided the tackle a few times.

    Burnett had more tackles than Williams with fewer opportunities to tackle. You must have mistaken him for MD Jennings, who looks very similar with a helmet on, plays next to Burnett, and is only a number off from him. Jennings was a bum too last night.
     
  23. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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  24. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

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    How about retaliating by making a play to win the darn game? or using that frustration to tackle AP? Tramon Williams has become the 4th best corner on the team this year.
     
  25. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    IMO the OP is an overreaction typical of fans after a loss, particularly one as significant as Sunday's. And I agree with those who have posted the starting CBs don’t have much to do with Woodson's return: Charles would be badly miscast as a starting CB. But a healthy Woodson replacing MD Jennings and/or McMillian at safety is a big upgrade IMO.

    My only problem with Tramon this season is his tackling – or lack thereof. He was playing with a very bad shoulder last year but assuming he’s 100% healthy this season he seems to have taken Shields spot in the secondary as the 'unwilling tackler'. Shields has improved a lot in that area this season but he didn’t have Tramon's injury excuse last year.
    Me too and IMO Williams is still a very good coverage CB who usually draws the opponent's best receiver. In McGinn’s mid season review he noted Tramon led the secondary in giving up the fewest pass completions of 20+ yards. And here are a few other excerpts from McGinn’s reviews for the second half of the season: Versus the Cardinals:
    Against the Vikings in their first game:
    Versus the Lions:
    Against the Bears:
    As
    I said, Williams has been bad tackling but he’s still very valuable as a cover corner. I do wonder if his bad shoulder is affecting his play but I have no idea how close it is to being 100%. But that’s still no excuse – he should at least try to “ride” AP until help arrives. Replacing Williams on obvious running plays as the Christl/Baranczyk article suggests is one thing. IMO sitting him on the bench all game would be foolish.
     
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