Trevor Davis traded to Oakland

[gbgary]

kumerow has a shoulder (again). they need a safety. they could bring lazard on board or pluck a safety from someone's ps...or trade for one. it boggles.

 

[firstdown]

There was also the one that he totally got creamed on, lucky he didn't fumble it. IMO, that was probably one of the worst non fair catch decisions he could have made. I would have to rewatch the game, but I think there was another one on the other end of the field where you and I were sitting, that he did fair catch and left some yards out there.

Needless to say, this isn't just due to bad decisions made in the Viking game, its something that seems to have plagued him since taking over the job.

No it wasn't. When Davis looked downfield before he caught the ball, he could see we had a blocker in perfect position in front of the gunner, and one right behind the gunner too. But inexplicably, our blocker abandoned his position in front of the gunner, turned right, stopped and turned to face the oncoming Minnesota players, leaving the gunner a wide open path to smash into Davis.

This was a blocking failure, not a returner failure.

The field was wide open to Davis' right, he had started that way when he got hit. That return would have gone for 25+ yards had the blocker done his job.

 

[XPack]

Hmmm not really bothered. Smith looks to be a better prospect anyway.

6th round ain't bad, though I'd have hoped for a 5th.

 

[Poppa San]

With Davis removed that makes the 4th WR....Kumerow? Or maybe Lazard/Shepherd?

Kumerow was on the field for Allison's TD catch. I saw him for a few other snaps so I think he had passed Davis for #4 already.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

No it wasn't. When Davis looked downfield before he caught the ball, he could see we had a blocker in perfect position in front of the gunner, and one right behind the gunner too. But inexplicably, our blocker abandoned his position in front of the gunner, turned right, stopped and turned to face the oncoming Minnesota players, leaving the gunner a wide open path to smash into Davis.

This was a blocking failure, not a returner failure.

The field was wide open to Davis' right, he had started that way when he got hit. That return would have gone for 25+ yards had the blocker done his job.

I would tend to disagree with you on this. While yes, Chandon Sullivan may have not turned fast enough to block the streaking Viking gunner, it was well up the field and well before Trevor fielded the ball. If you watch it again, you might see the same thing as I did or totally disagree with me still. After viewing it several times, I would still contest that Davis either has really bad vision, by not seeing the gunner running free and bearing down on him and/or he used poor judgement and risked turning the ball over, by not signalling for a fair catch.

This is actually an excellent example of the quick decisions required by a punt returner. Decisions that could be a difference maker in a game. Davis was not known for making good decisions as a returner and that coupled with his inability to climb the WR depth charts made it an easy decision for the Packers to trade him away and get some value while they could.

The Play is at 2:15 of this video.

https://www.vikings.com/video/full-highlights-packers-21-vikings-16

 

[rodell330]

Exactly. All the more reason to bury Denver this weekend. Sanders would be a pretty nice get.

I’ve been wanting Sanders for to seasons now. I have several post to back that up. He would be a great #2.

 

[tynimiller]

kumerow has a shoulder (again). they need a safety. they could bring lazard on board or pluck a safety from someone's ps...or trade for one. it boggles.

If King continues to stay healthy I foresee Tramon rolling back to Safey some IMO. I do feel while I was a fan of Josh Jones being released, his departure mixed with our Safety injuries left a reserve void I don't quite feel comfortable with still.

There is also IFs at WR though as well...GMo has the chance to truly separate and become a clear #2...shoot even MVS for that matter....I personally say unless a clear #2 has bubbled up by week 4 or 5 Gute would be doing the team a disservice not trying to use some of these late round picks we've gathered for an older but still savvy guy to role out in our WR corps.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

Kumerow was on the field for Allison's TD catch. I saw him for a few other snaps so I think he had passed Davis for #4 already.

Well we've been hyping Kumerow for like 2 seasons so let's at least rally behind him and see what he can do. We've brought Lazard back twice so the same goes for him and Shepherd fought hard to make this team as well. I personally don't remember Keon Hatcher at all and he only has one career catch but I'm going to trust that Gute knows what he's doing because so far I think we can all agree that we've liked what we've seen so far.

 

[PackerDNA]

We have Adams, and guys and mvs and Allison that we hope end up at least adequate. Kumerow, lazard, and Shepherd are question marks who have basically done nothing at this level.
In my opinion, the team will probably have to trade for a quality veteran wide receiver before the deadline.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Well we've been hyping Kumerow for like 2 seasons so let's at least rally behind him and see what he can do. We've brought Lazard back twice so the same goes for him and Shepherd fought hard to make this team as well. I personally don't remember Keon Hatcher at all and he only has one career catch but I'm going to trust that Gute knows what he's doing because so far I think we can all agree that we've liked what we've seen so far.

Starting to sound like Jeff Janis and Co. from a few years back. "These guys have been around and have potential, lets see what they can do." I don't mean to be a negative Nancy, but the inexperience of the WR group worried me starting the season and after 2 games, that hasn't changed. I still rationalize that it will get better as the offense "gels more" and we aren't playing top defenses, but I still think there are legitimate reasons to be concerned and I don't even want to talk about what happens without #17 in the mix.

Also doesn't help that the TE group hasn't done much to speak of.

 

[firstdown]

I would tend to disagree with you on this. While yes, Chandon Sullivan may have not turned fast enough to block the streaking Viking gunner, it was well up the field and well before Trevor fielded the ball. If you watch it again, you might see the same thing as I did or totally disagree with me still. After viewing it several times, I would still contest that Davis either has really bad vision, by not seeing the gunner running free and bearing down on him and/or he used poor judgement and risked turning the ball over, by not signalling for a fair catch.

This is actually an excellent example of the quick decisions required by a punt returner. Decisions that could be a difference maker in a game. Davis was not known for making good decisions as a returner and that coupled with his inability to climb the WR depth charts made it an easy decision for the Packers to trade him away and get some value while they could.

The Play is at 2:15 of this video.

https://www.vikings.com/video/full-highlights-packers-21-vikings-16

Thanks for the video, it proves my point exactly. Sullivan was in front of the gunner in perfect position to block him. The gunner was behind him to his left as they were both running towards Davis. He didn't even try to block him, he stopped and turned right and the gunner ran right past him. The gunner hit Davis within 2 seconds of Sullivan abandoning him. Punt returners don't look downfield 2 seconds before they catch the ball.

That was a huge gain that got ruined because of poor blocking. The right side was wide open. It also cost us, because if Davis got another 50 yard return, we might have gotten a 5th round pick instead of a 6th.

As far as receiver depth charts, did you see Allison't fumble last Sunday? Allison almost lost us the game with that one, and he lost us a game last year with another fumble at a critical time. He was known for fumbling at Illinois. Davis had the same sort of after the catch run in the first game, being surrounded by tacklers as he was trying to get more yards. Davis had the ball secured with both hands, and gained an additional 11 yards after the catch for 28 yards on a 2nd and 9 from our own 5 in the fourth quarter in a close game. Allison held onto the ball in close quarters with one hand and it got easily popped out.

Allison's fumble changed the momentum and created a 10 point swing, and almost lost us the game. Do you want to win games or do you want to lose? It's a small margin, winning or losing.

For example, in 2017 returning, Davis- no drops no muffs. 2018 Green Bay team (no Davis)- 11 fumbles/muffs- 5 lost.

Davis has a career (college and pro) receiver drop rate of 2%, while Allison's is 10%. 8 more drops out of a hundred by Allison (compared to Davis) doesn't seem like much, but it could be the difference that sends us home. Allison averages one drop every 10 targets, Davis 1 out of every 50. Davis' career YAC is over double Allison's, and probably double over any other receiver that we have, except Adams. Don't mean to pick on Geronimo, but just need to make the point that Davis is a good receiver.

All this Davis hate is dumb. They're gonna start throwing him the ball in Oakland, and he's gonna have a heck of a year.

That said, it was a decent trade for us. Davis was on the last year of his rookie contract, and probably would get more money on his next contract from another team, so Gute at least got something for Davis by trading him now. But we're a better team with Davis, he could have made a one or two game difference in wins this year. I'd be very happy with a Super Bowl this year, if it meant losing Davis next year.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Punt returners don't look downfield 2 seconds before they catch the ball.

You are kidding right?

 

[firstdown]

You are kidding right?

No, I'm not. If you look away from the ball, how much time do you think it takes to find it again in the air when you look back up, and position yourself in the correct spot to catch it? Track the ball at first, then look down, assess, look up, find the ball. That's gotta take a second and a half at best, probably 2-2.5 seconds.

Catching a punt is far, far harder than catching a pass. MVS was tried back there and he couldn't do it. Davis 0 drops 0 muffs 2017, team 11 drops/muffs 2018.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

No, I'm not. If you look away from the ball, how much time do you think it takes to find it again in the air when you look back up, and position yourself in the correct spot to catch it? Track the ball at first, then look down, assess, look up, find the ball. That's gotta take a second and a half at best, probably 2-2.5 seconds.

Catching a punt is far, far harder than catching a pass. MVS was tried back there and he couldn't do it. Davis 0 drops 0 muffs 2017, team 11 drops/muffs 2018.

Admittedly, I have never returned punts professionally, but based on observations of 1000's of punt returns, what you describe is not the case from what I have observed. A punt returner is constantly checking 2 things, the flight of the ball, probably the first thing he checks, then how the return itself is shaping up. This is a constant back and forth with his vision....ball...defenders....ball....

Why do you think a punt returner often waits until the very last second to put his hand up for a fair catch? Because that is the last moment he looked and saw that his return options weren't very good.

In the case of Sunday, Davis should have seen the defender (Ameer Abdullah) not get blocked 20 yards down the field, he didn't and he got clocked. Kudos to him for hanging on to the ball. Thumbs down to Sullivan for not turning the right way and blocking the guy that eventually hammered Davis. I will say though, you are probably right on one thing, I rewatched that video and focused on Davis's head, he seemed to only be staring into the sky for most of that punt.

We can go back and forth all day on this one play, however, this is just one of many punts that Davis made bad decisions on, including one in the same game, when he decided to block after making a fair catch and then letting the ball hit.

 

[PikeBadger]

I’m glad Davis is gone and we got a very decent pick in return. Was mildly surprised he made the final 53. Gutekunst did good on this one imo.

 

[OldSchool101]

I have no problem moving on. I would’ve liked to see him get some more playing time here in GB, but that wasn’t in the cards. The only thing I don’t like is losing another veteran presence in an already young group. There’s a bit of redundancy there at WR #4 so..

We got a 6th rounder so nothing lost, nothing borrowed.

Let’s get Kumerow more involved. He’s been around the circuit, it’s time to either poop or get off the pot.

We’ve recently lost Monty, Cobb, EQ, Moore and Davis. I still wouldn’t be shocked to see us work a trade deal for a more established veteran WR. If Davis is worth a 6th.. what type of upgrade is a mid round pick worth?

 

[firstdown]

Admittedly, I have never returned punts professionally, but based on observations of 1000's of punt returns, what you describe is not the case from what I have observed. A punt returner is constantly checking 2 things, the flight of the ball, probably the first thing he checks, then how the return itself is shaping up. This is a constant back and forth with his vision....ball...defenders....ball....

Why do you think a punt returner often waits until the very last second to put his hand up for a fair catch? Because that is the last moment he looked and saw that his return options weren't very good.

In the case of Sunday, Davis should have seen the defender (Ameer Abdullah) not get blocked 20 yards down the field, he didn't and he got clocked. Kudos to him for hanging on to the ball. Thumbs down to Sullivan for not turning the right way and blocking the guy that eventually hammered Davis. I will say though, you are probably right on one thing, I rewatched that video and focused on Davis's head, he seemed to only be staring into the sky for most of that punt.

We can go back and forth all day on this one play, however, this is just one of many punts that Davis made bad decisions on, including one in the same game, when he decided to block after making a fair catch and then letting the ball hit.

Well, no matter what it's going to be an interesting year Poker. Especially when we go to Oakland. It looks like we're going to have Shep do punts, and the new guy do kickoffs. That's a good idea. Hopefully Shepard doesn't further hurt his hammy.

 

[PackAttack12]

I have no problem moving on. I would’ve liked to see him get some more playing time here in GB, but that wasn’t in the cards. The only thing I don’t like is losing another veteran presence in an already young group. There’s a bit of redundancy there at WR #4 so..

We got a 6th rounder so nothing lost, nothing borrowed.

Let’s get Kumerow more involved. He’s been around the circuit, it’s time to either poop or get off the pot.

We’ve recently lost Monty, Cobb, EQ, Moore and Davis. I still wouldn’t be shocked to see us work a trade deal for a more established veteran WR. If Davis is worth a 6th.. what type of upgrade is a mid round pick worth?

I think the Raiders reached in giving up a 6th.

 

[Poppa San]

I think the Raiders reached in giving up a 6th.

Raiders also got more info on this weeks game vs Minnesota.

 

[PackAttack12]

Davis just took it to the house on a 60 yard end around

 

[swhitset]

Starting to sound like Jeff Janis and Co. from a few years back. "These guys have been around and have potential, lets see what they can do." I don't mean to be a negative Nancy, but the inexperience of the WR group worried me starting the season and after 2 games, that hasn't changed. I still rationalize that it will get better as the offense "gels more" and we aren't playing top defenses, but I still think there are legitimate reasons to be concerned and I don't even want to talk about what happens without #17 in the mix.

Also doesn't help that the TE group hasn't done much to speak of.

Yeah think about how great we’d be right now if only they had kept Janis

 

[greengold]

It was only Week 4...

 

[PikeBadger]

Yeah think about how great we’d be right now if only they had kept Janis

Uh oh, here we go again. The legend makes a reappearance.

 

[XPack]

Yeah think about how great we’d be right now if only they had kept Janis

That's 2 missed SBs, I tell ye.

 

[OldSchool101]

Yeah think about how great we’d be right now if only they had kept Janis

It’s like the ghost of Christmas past.. NFL Version