Tony Dungy Questions Cutler Trade & QB's Maturity

[Philtration]

Philtration, I've already had this discussion with you, and already stated that I think the bears got the better end of the deal. But IMO not by much, since you guys have needs that can only be satisfied by draft, since the FA takes so much of the Salary Cap. If you had not given the future first round pick, I would say that you would be a SB caliber team in some years. But Urlacher hasn't been the same in the last 2 years, your corners are old (though you did get D.J. Moore in the draft), you need a bonafide edge rusher (IMO you have very good complementary guys, but noone that deserves real attention), you need at least 1 very good safety, you need a LT (Pace won't play for long. Don't even know of he'll play this year.), and of course you need someone from that Wr corps to step up, AND a surefire #1 receiver. Don't know how much of that you can get from late round picks and FA. (I haven't put Kreutz or the guards in that, because I think Kreutz can still play at a high level for at least 3 years, and Beekman and Garza can be very good if the line is stable.)
AND you still need to figure it out how to be a better running team, since you were 24th in Avg and in total yards last year, and 14th in TDs. Even with one of the best Rbs in the league (11th in YPG, 7th in total yards, though 18th in TDs, and a poor 3.9 avg). Maybe with both Tackles being replaced, you can get better, but if it's coaching, it's bad...

Next years draft is loaded with OG's and OT's and they can get a very good player with their 2nd round pick.
They have to go with O line in my opinion but they could draft a DE.

As far as the Bears CBs... Vasher is 27 and Tillman is 28.
I would not call a 27 or 28 year old player old by any means and that certainly puts them a lot younger than the Packers CBs.
Drafting D.J. Moore at corner who was originally pegged as a possible first round pick was one of the biggest steals of the draft for the Bears.
The guy is a play maker so we will see about him.
Jerry Angelo drives me nuts sometimes but he does draft well on defense.

I do want a good end rusher put you can't have every thing in one draft and fix everything in one season. Let's see if Mark Anderson regains his form because he looked pretty damn good as a rookie. They did a very poor job of using him last year and he did not know if he was coming or going.
That was bad coaching there.

I believe that the Bears will be better at running the ball for no other reason then teams cannot just stack the box and wait for Forte to take the snap with Cutler at QB instead of the crap that we had before.

Orton would have been a UFA after this season and they would have had to pay up to keep a player who is just a so-so QB or find someone else.
That problem is solved now and two first round picks was worth it.
Not having a first rounder is not the end of the world.
Fixing the never ending problem at QB was the right thing to do and there are more than a few teams in the NFL who would rather have Cutler as their QB over what they have right now.

 

[Schmitty327]

I think Cutler can make these Bears recievers better. He can put the ball where he wants to. I am a little more worried then a lot of Packers fans about the Bears offense. I dont see them winning the division, but they will be much better then last year I think.

 

[PackersRS]

As far as the Bears CBs... Vasher is 27 and Tillman is 28.
I would not call a 27 or 28 year old player old by any means and that certainly puts them a lot younger than the Packers CBs.

You're right about that. Your corners aren't nearly as good as ours, but they certainly aren't a problem IMO. Don't know why I got the impression that they were old...

 

[Philtration]

You're right about that. Your corners aren't nearly as good as ours, but they certainly aren't a problem IMO. Don't know why I got the impression that they were old...

I am a lot more worried about the Safety position for the Bears.
Someone had better step up because that position is so crucial in the cover-2.
I think that this is going to be the biggest question mark they have this season.
Even bigger than the WR issue.

Vasher and Tillman where both banged up and were in and out of the line up all season last year. I hope that is all behind them now.
I always thought that Tillman could make the move to safety. He is big enough to play run stopper and it is great at stripping the ball.

 

[PackersRS]

I am a lot more worried about the Safety position for the Bears.
Someone had better step up because that position is so crucial in the cover-2.
I think that this is going to be the biggest question mark they have this season.
Even bigger than the WR issue.

Vasher and Tillman where both banged up and were in and out of the line up all season last year. I hope that is all behind them now.
I always thought that Tillman could make the move to safety. He is big enough to play run stopper and it is great at stripping the ball.

Bigger than the pass rush? Harris IMO is top 5 DT in pass rush, but because of his injury history, the coaches already admitted that they'll take out some reps of him. Anderson played well as a rookie, but not since then. And Brown and Ogunleye haven't show up in a while...

 

[Philtration]

Bigger than the pass rush? Harris IMO is top 5 DT in pass rush, but because of his injury history, the coaches already admitted that they'll take out some reps of him. Anderson played well as a rookie, but not since then. And Brown and Ogunleye haven't show up in a while...

I believe that part of the Bears pass rush problem is that Lovie wants to recreate the Bears D in the image of the unit he had in St. Louis.
He likes fast undersized players on defense and that may be fine when you play in a dome with plastic turf.
When you are on grass and it gets cold and wet it is a different story and their linemen get pushed around far too often because of the size difference.
The Packers did this to perfection in one of their games against the Bears last season. They just blew the Bears D linemen off the ball all the way down the field until they reached the end zone and that was not a great O line the Packers had.

I am hoping that he is going away from that method and they did draft Jarron Gilbert (6'5" 285 lbs) but they are just too light up front in my opinion.
I want to see more of Marcus Harrison (6'3" 312 lbs) at DT but they really need a couple of big guys to clog up that middle.
That can open up things for the DTs and Brian Urlacher was a much better player when he could roam sideline to sideline with the big guys up front.
Rod Marinelli is supposed to be great at teaching defensive linemen how to play and get the most from them and Warren Sapp credits him with making him into the player that he was.
I don’t care about the 0-16 record he had with the Lions. That was a different situation and it really has no bearing on what his job is now.
The Bears D linemen and LBs are fine at getting to the RB to make a stop because they are very good at stretching out the line of scrimmage but they are not getting to the QB.

The Bears made a big mistake when they let go of Chris Harris at safety and now Mike Brown is gone and I don't see that they have done enough to replace him.
When Brown was healthy he was outstanding. He could defend the pass, stuff the run, was great on the safety blitz and had a nose for the ball.
He was the kind of player that could, and often did change the course of a game and they are missing that now.

I hate the cover-2. It takes Urlacher and Briggs away from the line of scrimmage too much and it depends heavily on your safeties and right now their safeties concern me.
I would love to see Urlacher and Briggs play to attack the QB more instead of dropping into coverage all the time and with their current safeties I don’t see that happening any time soon.
Based on their personal, I actually believe that the Bears are more suited for a 3-4 defense myself.

 

[Philtration]

You're right about that. Your corners aren't nearly as good as ours, but they certainly aren't a problem IMO. Don't know why I got the impression that they were old...

Well now they have a problem.
I just heard that Tillman has had back surgery and will miss all of camp and the pre-season.
Moore had better be as good as he looked in college.

 

[Passepartout]

Say what you will about Dungy but IMHO, the guy is a class act and hopefully he will get onto Vick!

 

[Philtration]

Say what you will about Dungy but IMHO, the guy is a class act and hopefully he will get onto Vick!

If he were a class act then he would not be criticizing a player whom he does not know and does not deserve the stupid gossip act while defending and playing up a convicted felon.
In his eyes Cutler has question marks as a person but Vick does not and other than race what would lead him to believe that?
That is not class.

If Tony Dungy knows the secret to life and how to motivate and guide people then he should have spent more time doing that with his own son.

 

[longtimefan]

If he were a class act then he would not be criticizing a player whom he does not know and does not deserve the stupid gossip act while defending and playing up a convicted felon.
In his eyes Cutler has question marks as a person but Vick does not and other than race what would lead him to believe that?
That is not class.

If Tony Dungy knows the secret to life and how to motivate and guide people then he should have spent more time doing that with his own son.

wow that was harsh

YOU have no idea what Tony did or did not say and do with his son, so for you to accuse him of not being able to help his son is just wrong.

There are many people that try their hardest but sometimes it all goes down the drain because the people they are helping just do not want help

 

[PackersRS]

Yeah, too much Philtration.
Criticizing him for defending Vick and attacking Cutler is a personal opinion.
But saying he's an incompetent father, without even knowing him, is too much man...

 

[Philtration]

Yeah, lets leave the evaluations and criticism of others to Tony Dungy because he is a football coach so that makes him an expert on people.
Not just people that he knows but everyone.

I am just a mere mortal but if I were in Tony Dungy’s shoes I would think really hard about whom I am raking through the coals and I would not be putting my eggs in Michael Vick’s basket.
If you really want to save someone then try finding a candidate who does not still have millions of dollars in the bank, does not still have at least one really nice house to live in and does not have someone waiting to hand you more money while they turn a blind eye to your criminal past.
There are millions of people in this country that fit that description and Tony Dungy is not visiting them with words of wisdom.

The NFL is also loaded with wife beating, gun toting thugs and Tony is not making a stand against them or calling them out in public either.
Why is that?
Let's contrast Tony Dungy's handling of the Marvin Harrison situation with Tom Coughlin's handling of Plaxico Burriss. Burriss didn't shoot anyone except himself, but he was immediately removed from the team for the remainder of the season.
And what did Dungy do? Nothing.

You can’t act all preachy one moment and then be off limits the next.
He is critiquing and judging other people and that does not make you righteous and holy and it certainly does not make you above the same criticism.
Your job in the NFL should never ever be priority over your own kid and if Tony Dungy wants to be the voice of the people then having some of those people disagree with you is part of the deal.

 

[Philtration]

wow that was harsh

YOU have no idea what Tony did or did not say and do with his son, so for you to accuse him of not being able to help his son is just wrong.

There are many people that try their hardest but sometimes it all goes down the drain because the people they are helping just do not want help

I can tell you what I do know.
I know that Tony Dungy admitted that his son had some real issues and he was aware of this and instead of him spending as much time as he possibly could with him trying to get him help he set him up with his own apartment instead.
That's right.
He left an 18-year-old kid with some real problems to deal with them on his own while he poured out his feelings to strangers on Myspace.

Not exactly father of the year material.