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This wasn't right either

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Forget Favre, Mar 8, 2012.

  1. weeds

    weeds Cheesehead

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    I just want to be clear. I wasn't saying what Martin did was OK, FF. Your opinion matters to me. It really does.
    I was just pointing out that Ditka and the Bears, during this hellish period, were not ... NOT, I say ... gracious winners. Ditka and Gregg despised each other and fanned the flames -- and I think actually embraced the animosity that seemed to engulf the rivalry during this time (and previously). You have to remember that Gregg was a Packer and Ditka was a Bear -- not just as coaches, but players as well (Oddly, both ended up being Cowbags at the end, but...these guys hated each other from wayyyyyyyyyyyyy back...) I wondered if the Bears didn't actually believe that it was their time to receive their comeuppance on the Packers for the consistent beating the Pack had been laying on them for the previous 20 years -- and they were going to milk it for all it was worth.

    It was a different time. Bears/Packers games were ALL about cheap shots, eye gouging and groin kicking -- and that was while tailgating in the parking lot pre-game. It was worse on the field. It was SEVERE dislike run amok and I'm not exaggerating. It really can't compare to the perceived 'rivalry' today's fans have with the Vikings and their fans ... no comparison at all. Now, it's just internet chatter ... back then it was internal seething for anything Bears related if you were a diehard Packers fan...if you didn't live it, it's hard to explain, but I think that Dan115 and PoppaSan know what I'm talking about. I recognize that it sounds ridiculously childish ... but hey, that's the way it was.
     
  2. weeds

    weeds Cheesehead

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  3. Dan115

    Dan115 Cheesehead

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    YES, You had to live it. Packers vs the HATED bears-- IT WAS WAR!!!
     
  4. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    I disagree with Dan115 and weeds. I remember the Packers/Bears rivalry from the Lombardi/Halas days very well and of course I’m no fan of McMahon or Ditka. But I don’t think you can point to anything the Bears did during the "Gregg era" that compares to what Martin did. It’s one thing nowadays to take an "extra step" to deliver a blow to a QB – that was allowed back then. And unlike today, it was allowed to block a QB after an INT whether he attempted a tackle or not, but look at what Martin did: He grabbed him from behind and body slammed him. That was in no way a “football move”. It was stupid and against the rules in any circumstance. And he did it well after the play was over while McMahon was defenseless. Remember the hit Warren Sapp laid on Clifton? That was a completely unnecessary hit against a player not protecting himself, but it was before the whistle and it was a hit, not a body slam. IMO Sapp’s hit was bad, but Martin’s actions were clearly worse.

    One more thing: It’s bad enough to be a thug and to allow and encourage thuggish behavior as a HC. It’s even worse to be openly stupid about it and that’s what Gregg and the Packers were. During that game Martin was actually wearing a towel with a “hit list” of the numbers of Bears players Martin and presumably other Packers were targeting for injury.

    I do understand what Bogart is saying on this thread: NFL players getting paid to knock other players out of the game - “I’m shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!” * But I think there is a distinct difference between beating the hell out an opposing QB within the rules and engaging in tactics outside the rules with the express purpose of injuring opponents. And the reason the bounties are wrong is they encourage the latter behavior.

    * For the youngsters here, this is a famous line delivered by actor Claude Rains in perhaps Humphrey Bogart’s most famous movie, Casablanca, regarding Rick's Cafe where Rains’ character had just been gambling.
     
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  5. Dan115

    Dan115 Cheesehead

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    I disagree with Dan115 and weeds. I remember the Packers/Bears rivalry from the Lombardi/Halas days very well and of course I’m no fan of McMahon or Ditka. But I don’t think you can point to anything the Bears did during the "Gregg era" that compares to what Martin did.


    I did not point to anything the bears did. I only gave my view of THE PACKERS VS bears during the 80's. You have your opinion I have mine. IT was war. I do believe that is the way Gregg looked at it.
     
  6. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    Dan115, of course we both have our own opinions, I just posted my disagreement with yours as I believe you and weeds said you were OK with what Martin did at the time. I wasn't. I viewed Gregg as a thug who besmirched the reputation of the Packers as HC. That’s my opinion; of course you’re entitled to a different one. Nowhere in my post did I say otherwise.

    If we all shared the same opinion on everything, there’d be no reason to discuss anything. When I post my disagreement with anyone else’s opinion, that’s all I’m doing – just posting a different point of view.
     
  7. Dan115

    Dan115 Cheesehead

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    OK Jack--- sounds good. You brought up the Clifton hit. I was REALLY PISSED --- VERY UPSET with the way The Packer players did not clear the bench after that hit. The only person on The Packers sideline who felt the same as me seemed to be Sherman.
    I wrote Coach Sherman a letter after that game. I told him how disappointed I was with the players that they did not show any emotion when one of their fellow teammates was clocked by Sapp. I asked where is the unity on YOUR TEAM?
    To my surprise I received a response letter signed by Sherman. Not sure if he really wrote the letter.
    He thanked me for my concern and told me that there was unity on the team and blah blah about thanking me about my support of the team.

    I was truly disgusted with the players that they did NOT GO AFTER SAPP.

    What do you think Gregg's Packer team would have done to Warren?

    I enjoyed the way Jack Tatum and Chuck Cecil played the game.
     
  8. weeds

    weeds Cheesehead

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    Never said I was OK with it, Jack. Just said that I understood where it may have been coming from...there were two volatile personalities on the sidelines that didn't like each other much..plus there was a more prevalent Bear hatred in Green Bay and a more prevalent Packer hatred in Chicago than the cyber sniping that goes on today.

    The only statement I've made thusfar that I'd term "unequivocal" is that McMahon was a steaming pile of dog excrement. I'll stand by that statement.
     
  9. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    This was the source of my confusion:

    Not having a problem with it and being OK with it are similar IMO but I’m certainly not playing “gotcha” here, I just had and still have a different take on it. IMO what Martin did was WAY over the line and Gregg bears a lot of responsibility for it, even though I acknowledge the animosity between the two franchises at the time. I was extremely happy to see Gregg leave Green Bay, and that had as much to do with what I saw as his “thugishness” as it did with his record as HC.
     
  10. weeds

    weeds Cheesehead

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    Well then I guess that I had an easy conscience where P.O.S.'s in the 80's were concerned. ;)
    No question about the fact that it was dirty and uncalled for ... however, it was the Bears. If Martin had slam dunked Joe Montana, I'd have been pissed beyond belief because Montana wasn't a P.O.S. :)

    Gregg... I couldn't stand the guy neither for many of the same reasons as you. The Packers were a team out of control - a complete about-face from the Starr era where the measure of a Packer was a model citizen that couldn't win neither.

    The Mossy Cade thing was ridiculous... he was referred to as the "Aunteater" up here...
     
  11. Dan115

    Dan115 Cheesehead

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    I did not have a problem with the play. And I was ok with it. I remember thinking dabears have lost McMahon and THE PACKERS have loss Martin for the game. That sounded good to me. The ONLY reason I was happy to see Gregg go was because his teams did not win. I did not have a problem with his "thugishness" for me it was JUST WIN BABY!
     
  12. The Drew

    The Drew #packergang

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    Yeah that play was terrible...
     
  13. Forget Favre

    Forget Favre Cheesehead

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    Cool. Gotchya.
    I wasn't targeting you specifically, Weeds.
    I was responding mainly to other posts which seemed OK with Martin's dirty play.
    Also, I used the word "could" in my post just in case if I'm mistaken of Packers fans here being OK with Martin's dirty play.

    Since I wasn't a Packers fan then, I don't know how I would have felt of the illegal throw down.
    I know now that I would feel very, very ashamed if the Packers did that now.
     
  14. Rocky11

    Rocky11 Superbowl bound Pack

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    okpackerfan. All is well. I never thought that you didn't like me. This is a great place to state your opinions. I have no problem with you. Arguing is kind of fun. I don't offend that easily. I never played in college but did play through high school. I made all city my senior year but went right to work after high school. Looking back I should have continued but I am doing alright.
     
  15. GreenBayGal

    GreenBayGal Cheese Goddess

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    Last night I dreamt I was at a Packers/Bears game. Totally unrelated to the thread but I needed to share.
     
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  16. Dan115

    Dan115 Cheesehead

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    Who won???
     
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  17. weeds

    weeds Cheesehead

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    Oddly enough... I watched the NFC Championship game from the year before last yesterday. :) In my tired, old-geezerish mind, there was nothing more sweet than receiving the Halas Trophy deep in the bowels of Soldier Field.
     
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  18. PFanCan

    PFanCan That's MISTER Cheesehead, to you.

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    When I dream those kinds of dreams, I am not just AT the game, I am IN them-- often even the QB throwing the winning pass!:p

    Then again, I am also naked and running from uzi-armed ninjas while trying to drink a lemonade while the entire stadium is tipping over causing me to have to hang on to the walls.

    Now that I think of it, I like your dream better.
     
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  19. GreenBayGal

    GreenBayGal Cheese Goddess

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    LOL. Sounds like you could use the same anxiety meds I take.
     
  20. Bogart

    Bogart Duke Mantee

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    just have to post this cause it's so damn funny


    http://www.theonion.com/articles/details-of-the-nfl-bounty-scandal,27589/


    • Then-Saints defensive coordinator came up with the plan as a tax dodge when his old system of fining players for leaving opponents unhurt generated too much income
    • The 31 NFL defensive coordinators who are not Gregg Williams heard the words "NFL bounty scandal" and began sweating
    • Unfortunately, no Saints player was able to collect the $500,000 bounty offered to anyone who destroyed that stupid pirate ship in Tampa Bay's stadium
    • Some players felt the bounties were cruel and wrongheaded, as the bonus for player death was only $500
    • When the bounty program was suspended out of fear of discovery during the 2010 playoffs, Saints defensive players went on a tackling strike against Marshawn Lynch and the Seahawks in the Wild Card round
    • One of the few positive aspects of the bounty system was that Saints players volunteered to brutally injure middle school bullies free of charge as part of the NFL's United Way initiative
    • Pool to injure Brett Favre was actually funded by fans across the country, every other team in the league, and the NFL itself
    :roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

    The one about Lynch is probably true, cause I have no clue how they ran the bounty thing in the playoffs the last two seasons when they couldn't tackle anyone at all (Vernon Davis, Marshawn Lynch, Frank Gore, Calvin Johnson)
     
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  21. GeeDogWarrior

    GeeDogWarrior 0 - 0

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    I'd be lying if I said I didn't have moments during a Packer game, where I want our team to just start laying out people left and right.... "Oh My Gawd! Eli just got broken in half! ...Oh No, Victor Cruz is dow--nope---he dead? ...geez, the Packers are having non of that mercy crap, they're on a warpath of destruction!"

    but only for like a split second or so.... depends on the outcome tbh.
     
  22. Rocky11

    Rocky11 Superbowl bound Pack

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    I think we all think those thoughts during a game, especially if we are losing. The bottom line is I don't think anyone wants to see a player seriously hurt. If you do you have a problem. Every player has a story. He has a wife, kids, and so forth. We all would like to see someone knock the **** out of someone to get them out of our hair for that game but after that they should be able to go home and plan again next week.
     

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