The path for Aaron Rodgers to become the GOAT

[Deleted member 6794]

Interesting, although that doesn't necessarily mean it is easier to win the NFC. It seems like there have been more top tier teams in the NFC that you have to go through to get to the Super Bowl, and I would argue that those NFC teams are tougher. Atlanta last year, Seattle, Green Bay of course, Dallas is coming on, San Francisco was very good for a few years there, New Orleans, Arizona, Carolina, the Giants get hot in the playoffs some years. It seems like there is always a serious roadblock in the way.

I'm not saying there aren't good teams in the AFC, but I think the road to the Super Bowl has been more difficult in the NFC for the last decade or so.

Once again, that might be the general perception but in my opinion it's entirely possible the Patriots, being the most dominant team in the NFL over the past 17 seasons, have made it look way easier to get out of the AFC than it is in reality.

As a side note, New England has a higher winning percentage against NFC opponents (.797) than AFC teams (.751) since 2001.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I mean, the Patriots practically are awarded with a 2nd bye week more years than not in the divisional round. The Houston Texans this past year? Makes me sick.

Like when the Packers played a Vikings team being quarterbacked by Joe Webb in 2012???

 

[PackAttack12]

Like when the Packers played a Vikings team being quarterbacked by Joe Webb in 2012???

Read it again. More years than not. Your one isolated example doesn't change my opinion.

 

[Packer Brother]

I'll give him credit for bringing the team back against AZ ( 15) & Dallas playoff wins. Losing at home in chilling temperatures ( & being outplayed) to Colin Kapernick? Unable to capatilize on Seattle gifts in 14? Playing average against a mediocer Redskins ( Ugly win btw) team? SF disaster 2012? Not good enough. It's a results oriented business. So until he wins a few more titles, he's not close to the goat.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Read it again. More years than not. Your one isolated example doesn't change my opinion.

I don't consider the Patriots facing inferior competition in the playoffs to be a valid explanation for them having made it to seven Super Bowls in the last 17 years.

I'll give him credit for bringing the team back against AZ ( 15) & Dallas playoff wins. Losing at home in chilling temperatures ( & being outplayed) to Colin Kapernick? Unable to capatilize on Seattle gifts in 14? Playing average against a mediocer Redskins ( Ugly win btw) team? SF disaster 2012? Not good enough. It's a results oriented business. So until he wins a few more titles, he's not close to the goat.

You have to realize that Rodgers was hampered by injuries during the 2013 and '14 playoffs though. In addition there's no reason to blame him for losing at San Francisco in 2012 with the defense giving up 45 points and close to 600 yards in that game.

 

[Packer Brother]

I don't consider the Patriots facing inferior competition in the playoffs to be a valid explanation for them having made it to seven Super Bowls in the last 17 years.



You have to realize that Rodgers was hampered by injuries during the 2013 and '14 playoffs though. In addition there's no reason to blame him for losing at San Francisco in 2012 with the defense giving up 45 points and close to 600 yards in that game.

He was outplayed twice by a guy who was out of the league in three years.

He's not going to be close to the goat until he wins at minimum four more titles. That's not happening. I'll go a step furthrr and say he won't win another title in GB.

2010 looks like the outlier in a series of unfulfilled playoff letdowns.

 

[rmontro]

He was outplayed twice by a guy who was out of the league in three years.

The dumbest thing San Francisco ever did was get rid of Harbaugh. I was so happy when they let him go, that guy had our number.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

He was outplayed twice by a guy who was out of the league in three years.

He's not going to be close to the goat until he wins at minimum four more titles. That's not happening. I'll go a step furthrr and say he won't win another title in GB.

2010 looks like the outlier in a series of unfulfilled playoff letdowns.

Rodgers actually performed at a decent level in both playoff games against the 49ers, posting a combined passer rating of 94.0 against the second best defense in the league during those two seasons. In addition there's absolutely no doubt the defense is to blame for the Packers losing at San Francisco during the 2012 playoffs.

I don't care about the GOAT discussion all that much but believe you're being way too pessimistic expecting #12 not to win another Super Bowl in Green Bay.

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

Rodgers actually performed at a decent level in both playoff games against the 49ers, posting a combined passer rating of 94.0 against the second best defense in the league during those two seasons. In addition there's absolutely no doubt the defense is to blame for the Packers losing at San Francisco during the 2012 playoffs.

I don't care about the GOAT discussion all that much but believe you're being way too pessimistic expecting #12 not to win another Super Bowl in Green Bay.

No offence intended here but you (and many others) can talk statistics until they come out of your ears, until he or the team actually WIN a superbowl again we will always be considered a Nearly team. AR has not done it and neither has the team. I`m optomistic as ever but until they do............

 

[Deleted member 6794]

No offence intended here but you (and many others) can talk statistics until they come out of your ears, until he or the team actually WIN a superbowl again we will always be considered a Nearly team. AR has not done it and neither has the team. I`m optomistic as ever but until they do............

There's no doubt the Packers have fallen short of the team's ultimate goal over the past six seasons but it's pretty obvious the defense underachieving is mostly to blame for it.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

I will say without hesitation that if I had to pick any qb out of the history of the NFL. Rodgers would be my pick....

 

[rmontro]

Rodgers may very well be the best quarterback to ever play the game. But Brady is a champion, and that's what people remember.

 

[PackAttack12]

Rodgers may very well be the best quarterback to ever play the game. But Brady is a champion, and that's what people remember.

Unlike the MVP of SB45...

 

[rmontro]

Unlike the MVP of SB45...

No need to give the confused emoticon. Brady is a five time champ compared to Rodgers once. Which quarterback do you think the public associates more with winning Super Bowls? That's the point.

 

[pacmaniac]

So is Rodgers' legacy all dependent on how healthy Jordy Nelson can be for the rest of his career?

 

[rmontro]

So is Rodgers' legacy all dependent on how healthy Jordy Nelson can be for the rest of his career?

Pacmaniac has a point here. The offense seems to stagnate when Jordy is out of the lineup. They need to find a replacement for this guy soon, he's not getting any younger, or healthier. It's a big concern. We know we can't afford to lose Rodgers to injury, you might as well say we can't lose Nelson either.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The Packers were 10-6 in 2015 and lost to AZ in overtime in the divisional round, all without Jordy. Yes, Nelson is a really good WR and probably AR's favorite target, but I think AR means more to Jordy, than Jordy means to AR.

 

[PackAttack12]

So is Rodgers' legacy all dependent on how healthy Jordy Nelson can be for the rest of his career?

Pacmaniac has a point here. The offense seems to stagnate when Jordy is out of the lineup. They need to find a replacement for this guy soon, he's not getting any younger, or healthier. It's a big concern. We know we can't afford to lose Rodgers to injury, you might as well say we can't lose Nelson either.

Lets not forget that the offense caught fire against the Giants in the 2nd half of the wild card game this past January with Jordy on the sidelines, and beat the #1 seeded Cowboys the very next week, putting up 34 points.

None of that is intended to say that Jordy isn't valuable, but to say that the offense is dependent on Jordy is a tough sell for me. I agree with Pokerbrat that Rodgers is way more valuable to Jordy than the reverse.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Read it again. More years than not. Your one isolated example doesn't change my opinion.

The margin for winning a title is small. For example, in December 2014 Mike McCarthy did one of the worst jobs of calling a game I've ever seen in the Packers' loss to the Bills. Aaron Rodgers was having the worst game of his career while Lacy was averaging over 6 yards per carry. So what did the team do? Have Rodgers throw the ball 42 times (only completing 17 passes with 2 picks) while letting Lacy run the ball 15 times. Now, that's just one game but it's probable that, given the coaching staff making the offensive adjustment to run the ball, the Packers leave that game with a win. It's only one game you might say but that one game is the game that cost the Packers home field advantage in the NFCCG against the Seahawks. We'll never know but the outcome of that game against the Seachickes is probably different if the game is played in Green Bay.

Just one example but you don't often see Belichick come into a game against an inferior team and stick to a gameplan that's obviously not working. That small difference is often the only difference needed between winning a title vs not winning. Last season, if Atlanta just runs the ball a couple more times in the Super Bowl, Belichick and Brady aren't being feted as greatest of all time. Same thing if Seattle just runs the ball at the end of the Super Bowl in 2014.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Pacmaniac has a point here. The offense seems to stagnate when Jordy is out of the lineup. They need to find a replacement for this guy soon, he's not getting any younger, or healthier. It's a big concern. We know we can't afford to lose Rodgers to injury, you might as well say we can't lose Nelson either.

It's been pointed out that the Packers' offense likes to count on the receivers beating their guys one-on-one without a lot of scheme help (though maybe some of the pick plays we've seen this season indicate the coaching staff is catching up). Nelson is really the only receiver on the team that can consistently do that, so when he's out the scheme is forced to count on guys beating coverage when those guys can't beat coverage. Additionally, Nelson is really the only reliable vertical threat in the offense. For all the credit Thompson gets for drafting WR, he's had trouble finding vertical threats.

 

[pacmaniac]

It's been pointed out that the Packers' offense likes to count on the receivers beating their guys one-on-one without a lot of scheme help (though maybe some of the pick plays we've seen this season indicate the coaching staff is catching up). Nelson is really the only receiver on the team that can consistently do that, so when he's out the scheme is forced to count on guys beating coverage when those guys can't beat coverage.

That has been generally accepted around here. But I read an article recently that was puzzling:

https://www.si.com/mmqb/2017/07/10/...inals-guest-monday-morning-qb-nfl-andy-benoit

"I think Aaron Rodgers is still the most difficult quarterback in football to reconcile. I was watching film the other night with one of my research guys, Allan Uy. What kept standing out was how often Rodgers left wide open receivers on the field. And these weren’t receivers who got open just because Rodgers extended the play. They got open within the context of the play’s design. And they were getting open because the play call was beating the coverage concept. Which means that Rodgers, reading the coverage, should have anticipated them being open. Rodgers leaves throws on the field almost every game."

Huh? This guy is saying the Packers receivers have no problems getting open every game, and Rodgers just doesn't throw to them because he's looking for an even bigger play I guess? I don't think he's been watching all the Packers games...

 

[Mondio]

The offense didn't stagnate because Jordy was out. he's a big time player but as usual there is so much more going on. 2 back up tackles, one who was a center guard and hasn't even played tackle in years. Drops on crucial 3rd downs by guys that are better than that like Bennett and Cobb. a couple crucial calls on big plays and our offense looked like it did. Of course it's better with Jordy out there, no doubt about it, but there is so much more going on than just one player.

and Rodgers does leave open receivers out there numerous times during a game. When it looks past them for what he thinks is going to be a big play and we hit it, we love it. When it's not working, we hate it.

 

[PackAttack12]

The offense didn't stagnate because Jordy was out. he's a big time player but as usual there is so much more going on. 2 back up tackles, one who was a center guard and hasn't even played tackle in years. Drops on crucial 3rd downs by guys that are better than that like Bennett and Cobb. a couple crucial calls on big plays and our offense looked like it did. Of course it's better with Jordy out there, no doubt about it, but there is so much more going on than just one player.

and Rodgers does leave open receivers out there numerous times during a game. When it looks past them for what he thinks is going to be a big play and we hit it, we love it. When it's not working, we hate it.

And for those that want to point to 2015, there were a million issues on offense that year besides just Jordy being out.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

It's been pointed out that the Packers' offense likes to count on the receivers beating their guys one-on-one without a lot of scheme help (though maybe some of the pick plays we've seen this season indicate the coaching staff is catching up). Nelson is really the only receiver on the team that can consistently do that, so when he's out the scheme is forced to count on guys beating coverage when those guys can't beat coverage. Additionally, Nelson is really the only reliable vertical threat in the offense. For all the credit Thompson gets for drafting WR, he's had trouble finding vertical threats.

Adams is capable of separating from defensive backs on short to intermediate routes without needing schematic help as well. He's not a vertical threat though.

Huh? This guy is saying the Packers receivers have no problems getting open every game, and Rodgers just doesn't throw to them because he's looking for an even bigger play I guess? I don't think he's been watching all the Packers games...

Rodgers tried to force big plays on occasion in the past but seems to have gotten more confortable with running a ball control offense starting with the Cowboys game last season.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I doubt this is the Path to being GOAT that anyone wanted to see #12 take, but I do believe there is a good possibility his injury will add one more big layer to his being the GOAT.

That layer is watching how well a team does or doesn't do after losing 1 player from their active roster of 53. The Patriots have lost Brady a few times for extended time periods and while they were better with Brady, there wasn't a substantial drop off in the success of the team.

Obviously, as a Packer fan, I hope this doesn't happen, but my prediction is, we are going to see a pretty substantial drop off with the loss of #12. This isn't going to just be a small decline, it's going to be pretty big. People may want to blame the decline on injuries to the OL, but actually #12 was winning with a very patchwork OL. Blame the defense for the loses? AR was winning despite a crappy defense.

Possibly when the 2017 Season concludes, the Packers will have won a game or 2 without Aaron Rodgers, when that happens people are going to have to really look at just how good Aaron Rodgers alone made the Packers. That to me, might be worth more than just being a guy who QB's a solid team to SB wins.