Ted's way

[Bus Cook]

I think its great to build a team through draft and develop, and given the realities of the salary cap there really isn't much alternative if you want to be successful. I do think a strategic acquisition on the free agent market can make sense, too. The Reggie White acquisition was absolutely huge, and Pickett has been a great player for us.

No different that what I've said all along. Then it gets translated to "fans are throwing up their arms and beg TT to just sign a guy to appease the masses"

 

[13 Times Champs]

...or sign two or three just because they don't like the number count at a particular position.

 

[El Guapo]

...He gave big contracts to aging veterans and constantly traded to move up in the draft and get his guy. Exactly the approach that some still inexplicably want us to take, even though what we are doing is working.

Your entire post is spot on, except for this nugget. I'm clearly on the TT side but I can't see anyone calling for what you describe above. Nobody, not Bus Cook, Rodell, or any of the other guys want a return to the Sherman era. In general - speaking for all of them - they want more balance.

I like the way that TT has built this team and therefore I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt about how to handle gaps in the roster, which are as inevitable as death and taxes in the NFL. But there is no debating that TT is at the far spectrum of the Draft vs Free Agency debate. Guys on these forums that advocate for the Packers to get this guy or that guy aren't pushing the Sherman model of implosion, but just less Draft & Develop and more Free Agency.

 

[Bus Cook]

Your entire post is spot on, except for this nugget. I'm clearly on the TT side but I can't see anyone calling for what you describe above. Nobody, not Bus Cook, Rodell, or any of the other guys want a return to the Sherman era. In general - speaking for all of them - they want more balance.

I like the way that TT has built this team and therefore I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt about how to handle gaps in the roster, which are as inevitable as death and taxes in the NFL. But there is no debating that TT is at the far spectrum of the Draft vs Free Agency debate. Guys on these forums that advocate for the Packers to get this guy or that guy aren't pushing the Sherman model of implosion, but just less Draft & Develop and more Free Agency.

or instead of 3 guys on our roster that never played for another NFL team, go crazy and have it be 4. I know, Dan Snyder, Jerry Jones, Al Davis.

 

[longtimefan]

No different that what I've said all along. Then it gets translated to "fans are throwing up their arms and beg TT to just sign a guy to appease the masses"

You are to sensitive...


This forum does have some posters that tend to get mad during free agency

So relax... that post wasnt dircted at you

 

[AmishMafia]

Your entire post is spot on, except for this nugget. I'm clearly on the TT side but I can't see anyone calling for what you describe above. Nobody, not Bus Cook, Rodell, or any of the other guys want a return to the Sherman era. In general - speaking for all of them - they want more balance.

I like the way that TT has built this team and therefore I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt about how to handle gaps in the roster, which are as inevitable as death and taxes in the NFL. But there is no debating that TT is at the far spectrum of the Draft vs Free Agency debate. Guys on these forums that advocate for the Packers to get this guy or that guy aren't pushing the Sherman model of implosion, but just less Draft & Develop and more Free Agency.

I am of the belief that it is more of a whole model approach. If you go the TT approach, you can't compromise the integrity with any dabbling in other methods. You draft or you pick up FAs. You draft and mold them to your system. You are very selective in the personalities/attitudes that you allow in the locker room. A synergy/cohesiveness will develop on your team. What many people don't realize, I think, is that the difference between a top tier team and a bottom level team is not that great in terms of talent. A bigger issue is getting them all on the same page - playing as a team. Look at the Chiefs. Worst team in the NFL, now the best. Did they have a huge turnover in talent? Nope. Got a coach who did an amazing job at getting them to play together.

 

[Bus Cook]

I am of the belief that it is more of a whole model approach. If you go the TT approach, you can't compromise the integrity with any dabbling in other methods. You draft or you pick up FAs. You draft and mold them to your system. You are very selective in the personalities/attitudes that you allow in the locker room. A synergy/cohesiveness will develop on your team. What many people don't realize, I think, is that the difference between a top tier team and a bottom level team is not that great in terms of talent. A bigger issue is getting them all on the same page - playing as a team. Look at the Chiefs. Worst team in the NFL, now the best. Did they have a huge turnover in talent? Nope. Got a coach who did an amazing job at getting them to play together.

So then teams that are active in free agency can't draft?

 

[Dan115]

who was active in free agency this year?

 

[SpartaChris]

So then teams that are active in free agency can't draft?

That usually winds up being the case, yes.

 

[VolvoD]

So then teams that are active in free agency can't draft?

look to the nfc east.

 

[El Guapo]

I am of the belief that it is more of a whole model approach. If you go the TT approach, you can't compromise the integrity with any dabbling in other methods. You draft or you pick up FAs. You draft and mold them to your system.

Sorry, I can't buy into this position. So TT is clearly a draft & develop guy, right? Dan Snyder maybe is the opposite, right? So if there is no grey area in between, what was Ron Wolf? That guy certainly brought in a lot more free agents than TT, but was still big on drafting, and nobody complained about it or called him a "Free Agent GM."

I agree with everything that you said about synergies, cohesiveness, and being selective about personalities, etc. However, I think that your argument goes off track in thinking that there is a maginot line somewhere that you cannot cross without losing all of that. Like most sports, the NFL is about finding the right balance for your team in your team's specific situation - which of course is constantly changing. IMO, rigidly sticking to one philosophy because it worked in the past is foolhardy. TT didn't ruin any cohesiveness or synergies by getting Woodson or Pickett. You can still seek out guys in the FA market that will compliment or augment those facets of the team.

Back to the original issue, if TT got a couple of free agents this year or off-season I wouldn't think it was going to destroy our locker room. I like his current approach but it by no means ensures future success. Again, TT has my trust so if he leans more one way or another for a while then he's got my support until its no longer warranted.

 

[AmishMafia]

Sorry, I can't buy into this position. So TT is clearly a draft & develop guy, right? Dan Snyder maybe is the opposite, right? So if there is no grey area in between, what was Ron Wolf? That guy certainly brought in a lot more free agents than TT, but was still big on drafting, and nobody complained about it or called him a "Free Agent GM."

I agree with everything that you said about synergies, cohesiveness, and being selective about personalities, etc. However, I think that your argument goes off track in thinking that there is a maginot line somewhere that you cannot cross without losing all of that. Like most sports, the NFL is about finding the right balance for your team in your team's specific situation - which of course is constantly changing. IMO, rigidly sticking to one philosophy because it worked in the past is foolhardy. TT didn't ruin any cohesiveness or synergies by getting Woodson or Pickett. You can still seek out guys in the FA market that will compliment or augment those facets of the team.

Back to the original issue, if TT got a couple of free agents this year or off-season I wouldn't think it was going to destroy our locker room. I like his current approach but it by no means ensures future success. Again, TT has my trust so if he leans more one way or another for a while then he's got my support until its no longer warranted.

There are many ways to build a team - I never stated there was no grey area. Ron Wolf was Ron Wolf, he had his own style and reasons for them. The NFL has changed and I doubt Wolf would be as successful today as he was then. I think the 'TT way' is nearly always to go with draft picks or UFAs. I guessed at the reasons I stated, but they do sound like logical ideas to me. Bringing in several FAs each season would be a detriment to his particular system - or at least - what I perceive as his system.

Woodson and Pickett were brought in when this was a different team. There was to be a major overhaul in personnel and those two players had the opportunity to develop with the new blood. But clearly, having by far the fewest players who have ever played for another team, is some kind of tip-off to the MO of TT.

As far as sticking to one system as being foolhardy, the Packers are arguably the most talented team in the NFL this season, and the past few. If that wasn't the case, I would agree with you. I don't know how much the synergy/locker room is affected by bringing in FAs, but why mess with something that is working extremely well. You know, there are 31 other GMs vying for the same players and trying to stock their rosters as best they can. TT has them all beat to hell. And when you consider we continually draft at the end of the round, that is a very impressive feat by TT.

To me, asking TT to change his process would be like asking Rodgers to change up his throwing style. Why mess with something great? Rodgers doesn't complete every pass and TT doesn't hit on every draft pick and every position; but you know what? They are about the best at what they do - let them do what is working.

 

[Royal Pain]

If you dig a little deeper into the two FA's mentioned (Pickett, Woodson), you can see that TT doesn't deviate much from his basic player evaluation philosophy. Both were undervalued (think Rodgers and Lacy going later than expected in the draft). I don't recall Pickett being on anyone's radar, and it's well known that no one wanted Woodson when he was on the market. Both have also been great for team chemistry. For some reason Woodson had the reputation of being a malcontent after his first stint in Oakland. Everytime I saw an interview with him during his time in Green Bay, he was intelligent and thoughtful. And who will ever forget his post game speech after the NFCC game in 2011. Pickett is soft-spoken, but he also comes across as very intelligent and you can tell he commands a lot of respect.
So, is TT smarter than the rest of the GM's in the NFL? I don't think so (with the exception of Jerry Jones). He definitely has an eye for talent, but I think his success can partly be attributed to discipline and also the fact that he's allowed to be disciplined, ie he doesn't have a knee-jerk owner putting pressure on him to make a splash.

 

[JBlood]

TT could be considered the new Jack Vainisi, assuming we win a couple more Championships with his players.

 

[El Guapo]

I never stated there was no grey area.

Well then I completely misinterpreted your statement that "you draft or you pick up FAs."

 

[AmishMafia]

Well then I completely misinterpreted your statement that "you draft or you pick up FAs."

Well, what the hell was I thinking? If you were a mod I'd accuse you of altering my text. Didn't mean to imply that you either draft or pick up FAs. Can't even explain what I must have meant. My apologies to you.

 

[adambr2]

Your entire post is spot on, except for this nugget. I'm clearly on the TT side but I can't see anyone calling for what you describe above. Nobody, not Bus Cook, Rodell, or any of the other guys want a return to the Sherman era. In general - speaking for all of them - they want more balance.

I like the way that TT has built this team and therefore I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt about how to handle gaps in the roster, which are as inevitable as death and taxes in the NFL. But there is no debating that TT is at the far spectrum of the Draft vs Free Agency debate. Guys on these forums that advocate for the Packers to get this guy or that guy aren't pushing the Sherman model of implosion, but just less Draft & Develop and more Free Agency.

I'm not directing that at you or anyone pushing for more activity in free agency. Just more the ones who go crazy every time a big name is available and we don't get active. I agree that no one wants a return to the Sherman era, but I think there are many that would get excited about the GM activity of Mike Sherman -- in the MOMENT.

TT is definitely at the far end of the draft/FA spectrum, but I've never seen any real evidence that being right in the middle of that spectrum is ideal.

 

[adambr2]

Is there a link to this thread were we are throwing our arms up and begging TT to sign any guy, just so that we are appeased? I wasn't posting here in March, so I must have missed all of them.

Well, March starts on page 22 and higher right now. It took me about 20 seconds to look that up for you. Page 22 itself is loaded with such posts, such as gems about not signing Steven Jackson, to predictions of 7 or 8 wins, to complaints about having "done nothing" to improve the defense and "don't even get me started on the run game".

Do you want me to bump all these, or can you handle the research from here?

 

[Bus Cook]

Well, March starts on page 22 and higher right now. It took me about 20 seconds to look that up for you. Page 22 itself is loaded with such posts, such as gems about not signing Steven Jackson, to predictions of 7 or 8 wins, to complaints about having "done nothing" to improve the defense and "don't even get me started on the run game".

Do you want me to bump all these, or can you handle the research from here?

Not sure if Steven Jackson = just any free agent but I guess to some that would be an example of the craziness that can infect Packer fans in the heat of the moment. There were a number of teams that considered Steven Jackson to be something greater than just any free agent, so I'm not sure that Packerdom should have simply dismissed him without any consideration. Most of us frequent forums to discuss the possibility of adding a player here or there, via the draft, free agency or trade. Not always does it indicate that we are throwing our arms up and begging TT to sign just any guy.

 

[jaybadger82]

I like the way that TT has built this team and therefore I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt about how to handle gaps in the roster, which are as inevitable as death and taxes in the NFL. But there is no debating that TT is at the far spectrum of the Draft vs Free Agency debate. Guys on these forums that advocate for the Packers to get this guy or that guy aren't pushing the Sherman model of implosion, but just less Draft & Develop and more Free Agency.

Nicely said and I share your sentiments.

Overall, the draft and develop approach is the right one for us and TT deserves the benefit of the doubt. With that said, there have been times where I would've liked to see us address a weak spot with a sensible free agent addition.

I always think it's a bit silly when someone starts a thread linking some high profile player to the Packers, though...

 

[TJV]

Most of us frequent forums to discuss…

And one of us – you – frequent this forum to spew your admitted hatred of Ted Thompson. In my opinion that makes you a Favre fan, not a Packers fan. Because how could a Packers fan proudly state on a Packers forum he hates a man who has accomplished the following as General Manager & Director of Football Operations of the Packers:

• Built teams which have made the playoffs four consecutive years, and five times in the past six seasons – the only NFC team to have done so.

• Built teams which have won 19 consecutive games over two seasons, setting the franchise record and second best in NFL history.

• Built a team that won the Packers 13th Championship; and not only that but …

• That Championship team was so deep it won it all even though it finished the season with 15 players on IR, including eight who started at least one game and six starters on opening day who sustained injuries in the first seven games of that season.

• Built teams with a winning percentage over 61%, which is closing in on his mentor’s winning percentage in Green Bay.

This is a man who has twice been voted NFL Executive of the Year – an award voted on by his peers. Even most foolish Bears fans don’t call Thompson “a hack”, yet you have done so at least twice on this forum and beyond that, insulted him personally. [IMO] You can hate him all you want – that reflects much, much more on you than it does Thompson. But what true Packers fan in his right mind calls Thompson “a hack”? The answer is none. You are apparently still so head over heels in love with Favre you can’t think straight.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but not every opinion deserves respect and because you can’t refute any of the above facts, your opinion on Thompson deserves no respect. How can a GM with those accomplishments be called a hack as compared with the other GMs in the league over the same period of time?

Some say to ignore you and I do that a lot. You can be toyed with because your bias and blindness allow you post things like you don’t care at all what players do off the field (how could a Favre fan post anything else?). And I have done that, too. But every now and then the board needs to be reminded that you have such a strong and irrational bias against Thompson you pollute the site with your venom.

I enjoyed the reports from that other site where Favre fans admitted they couldn’t fully enjoy the Packers Super Bowl XLV win. And although you probably won’t admit it, I enjoy that you are undoubtedly in that group. That's Thompson's ultimate revenge: You and other Thompson haters can't fully enjoy the success of the team you purport to root for.[/IMO]

 

[ivo610]

Teams use free agency bc they are unsuccessful in the draft. Teds method has proven to be highly successful. Look at New England, lately they have been active in FA bc they were so bad in the draft.

 

[jaybadger82]

Teams use free agency bc they are unsuccessful in the draft.

I love a good axiom as much as the next guy, but this seems to ignore injuries and the fact that even the best scouting departments miss in the draft periodically.

I'm still unclear why this discussion continues to be framed in terms of draft and develop versus free agency, as if the latter can't complement the former.

 

[ivo610]

I love a good axiom as much as the next guy, but this seems to ignore injuries and the fact that even the best front scouting departments miss in the draft from time to time.

I'm still unclear why this discussion continues to be framed in terms of draft and develop versus free agency, as if the latter can't complement the former.

I'm all for small pick ups but if the front office is drafting right we should have no need to panic and break the bank for a big name. This season ted has shown he drafted well enough to justify not going into FA

 

[jaybadger82]

I'm all for small pick ups but if the front office is drafting right we should have no need to panic and break the bank for a big name. This season ted has shown he drafted well enough to justify not going into FA

What about significant free agents that put a good team over the top like, say, Reggie White or Charles Woodson?

I won't draw any conclusions about this season until it's over but it seems a bit extreme to dismiss free agency as the pursuit of teams that don't draft well. Just my opinion.