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Ted's way

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Royal Pain, Oct 28, 2013.

  1. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Those are two of the top 5 free agent acquisitions of all time across all teams

    The roster wasn't up to par when we brought Charles in. It was a mess. Thus we needed to go into free agency.
     
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  2. DevilDon

    DevilDon Inclement Weather Fan

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    Ever notice people who argue for signing FAs always refer to the past?
    FA is different now folks. Teams are jettisoning their aging players to FA and some teams are scooping them up at high prices, killing their cap and killing their roster.
    The Packers cannot and will not compete for a Julius Peppers nor a Reggie White these days. They don't need them and they can't afford them. If a steal like Woodson falls to them I promise that TT would jump all over it like a dog on bacon.
    Those kinds of players are rare these days as many teams will resort to anything to try to sell tickets. Cleveland wants Tolzien!
    I can only complain about one TT move and that was not getting Lynch but it's since come out that he was trying, just fell short.
     
  3. ls1bob

    ls1bob Cheesehead

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    I am a huge Favre fan,but also a huge TT fan. What and how TT builds this team is phenomenal and have room left in the cap. TT takes people that have good talent and teach (brainwash)lol them the Packer way. I think there is more of a sense of loyalty and respect for the team and the coaches when TT does this because he is giving them a chance when the players feel no one else would. Would I like to see TT do something sometimes in free agency,yes. But in the end TT and the coaches have their fingers on the pulse of the team and they know best. Even with the way things went down with Favre and Thompson(faults on both sides) I wouldn't want any other GM period.
     
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  4. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    Cap and cash management are an important part of this discussion as well. Having cap space available shouldn't nudge a team into the FA market just for the sake of using what is available. It's sort of like taking that big step to start saving money for your own personal finances, but then spending it down as soon as you realize that you've got a surplus.

    I guarantee that TT is helping the Packers bottom line by not maxing out the salary cap every year, which endears him to the Board and Mark Murphy. At the same time, he's got the ability to go into the FA market if needed, but otherwise has the money to pay his stars.

    I think what has put a team like the Packers above all else are the two recent contract extensions of Rodgers and Matthews. How many teams hold on to such players of value while still keeping most of their roster intact? Not many. The Ravens are an example of a team that reached for its QB but then hemorrhaged many of its core players. Much of our core remains and with the cap space to address the situation. We surely will lose a guy or two this coming off season, but it's uncanny how well we ARE able to hang onto our core players. That great fiscal management born from restraint in the FA market.

    On a fishing forum that I frequent, the guys in the Sports area are arguing about next year's draft already for the Vikings. I can't even count the number of times that Vikings fans have said things such as "...they should consult with Ted Thompson" or "...what would the Packers do?"
     
  5. jaybadger82

    jaybadger82 Cheesehead

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    Ever notice how often folks misconstrue others around here? -Who's "arguing for signing FAs?" -That isn't the same as saying that free agency shouldn't be entirely dismissed and, given the bold portion of your post, it seems like you would agree.

    Reggie White and Charles Woodson came up to show that quality additions can come about through free agency. Not saying we need to sign anyone right now.

    I'm just saying I disagree with the attitude that categorically dismisses free agency. Not sure about y'all but I've found some nice parts at the junk yard.

    Free agency is an option that can yield positive or negative results. It seems like some only want to see the negative.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2013
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  6. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

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    jack, click on the posters name then hit ignore. Makes the problem go away, makes responses to said poster confusing, but well worth it.

    as far as FA being different, I think it is. There have been only a few signings of HOF players who have great years for their new teams. White and Woodson, and the only other one is Brees. But he only became a FA when SD thought they had a better option in Rivers.

    instead players like Haynesworth get the big bucks. A guy who pissed off coaches at Tennessee, not for his play, but for slacking on the practice field and telling the rookies he needs to take it easy and save it for game day. Some leadership, eh? Its not all about play on the field.
     
  7. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    Last edited: Nov 1, 2013
  8. Bus Cook

    Bus Cook You're never alone with a schizophrenic

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    Couldn't help but notice that 4 of the 20 players on that all time free agent list were packers. Not bad for a team that shouldn't even discuss butchering the cap
     
  9. easyk83

    easyk83 Cheesehead

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    Except 2 were ex Packers.
     
  10. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    We shouldn't butcher the cap to keep our own or sign others. However, we shouldn't eschew free agency altogether either. It's a tool in your tool box. Unused it's no good to you.
     
  11. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    With out looking to hard at it... How many current free agents are listed??? Meaning this past offseason...

    I have seen some lists like that and seems like they always have fa from early 90 and some early 2000 era
     
  12. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    One from 92 and one from 2006

    How many out of 20 from before 2006?

    15
     
  13. Bus Cook

    Bus Cook You're never alone with a schizophrenic

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    Figures lie and liars figure, but there are 32 teams and yet 20% of the top 20 FAs (on that list) were Packers. Coming or going, they're still free agents.
     
  14. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    The link was in early 2013 and did have Peyton Manning on it. But I was primarily addressing post # 56 which used White, Brees and Woodson as the only examples of successful free agent signings over the years.
     
  15. DevilDon

    DevilDon Inclement Weather Fan

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    There's the flaw in your post. Do you think NASCAR uses parts from the junk yard?
    This is a finely tuned football team, used parts are just that... used.
    I can't imagine you don't think that the FO looks at what's available out there. Of course they do, they just don't like what they see compared to what they end up signing.
     
  16. jaybadger82

    jaybadger82 Cheesehead

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    You're taking the used parts metaphor too literally. This isn't NASCAR. Players get injured and sometimes we miss with our draft picks. Enter FAs like Seneca Wallace, Jarrett Boykin and DuJuan Harris. I'm glad for their contributions.

    Have you been following this thread? -It seems like you're arguing with me without understanding what I've been saying.
     
  17. DevilDon

    DevilDon Inclement Weather Fan

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    Yes, I'm telling you that FA is always explored. It's nonsense to think they don't look at it because they don't sign many.
    Hey Jay, don't use metaphors you don't like coming back at you. You likened FA to a bone yard not me.
     
  18. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    BTW Paup was a Packer and Wolf let hm walk, next year he became defensive player of the year...So Wolf made bad moves too..


    Other than q/b ---what free agent on that list could the Packers have signed in Ted's era? Turner is only one..

    Better question to @Bus Cook ----During Ted's time, what free agent would you have liked seen here (dont worry about money, or roster spot.....Who woud you have loved to get
     
  19. jaybadger82

    jaybadger82 Cheesehead

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    Glad you understand that FA is always explored so I'll assume you agree with my argument here that it shouldn't be categorically dismissed and I hope you see the problem with criticizing a metaphor in the context of the wrong sport.
     
  20. DevilDon

    DevilDon Inclement Weather Fan

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    No, you felt that FA was ignored and I countered that it's never ignored. Glad to see you're paying attention to your own posts.
    I have no problem with metaphors but yours was an especially bad one. Look Jay, if you're going to refer to the FA NFL market in the terms of a bone yard you have to accept that someone with half a brain will call you on a stupid metaphor. You used the expression that you found good stuff in the junk yard. I only opened your eyes to the fact that the NFL is so competitive that junk parts don't get you a Lombardi.
    If you are too thick to see the inference then I can't help you buckaroo.
     
  21. toolkien

    toolkien Cheesehead

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    For those who don't comprehend that we're in a different free agency era, does anyone think that Reggie signs a four year, 27,000,000 deal today (the 1993 deal adjusted for inflation)? Granted the cap is a lot higher, but it stands that free agency was a lot cheaper in constant dollars twenty years ago. A guy like Jennings signs for 10,000,000 a year in this day and age. A Reggie White would make 15,000,000 a year, thrice the amount. A lot of the time it's just not worth it in the long run. If Free Agency was so wonderful we'd be able to rattle off a list of teams so impacted by Free Agent signings leading to championships there wouldn't be a debate. But more often than not, we see busts and teams nailed by broken budgets.

    Thompson does throw the hook into free agency, he just doesn't overpay for the declining years of a player, he leaves that for other teams to do.
     
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  22. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    What I was trying to point out
     
  23. jaybadger82

    jaybadger82 Cheesehead

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    It's clear you don't understand what I've been saying in this thread.

    If you can't recognize why a used parts metaphor makes sense in the context of NFL roster-building, then I can't help you either.
     
  24. jaybadger82

    jaybadger82 Cheesehead

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    Yeah, Reggie White is such a stiff these days. Terrible value.
     
  25. Bus Cook

    Bus Cook You're never alone with a schizophrenic

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    If Free Agency was so wonderful we'd be able to rattle off a list of teams so impacted by Free Agent signings leading to championships there wouldn't be a debate. But more often than not, we see busts and teams nailed by broken budgets.

    Except that no one on this or any other forum subscribes to the straw man that you propose. Your Reggie White example is spot on. At that time, we, like many other teams were just a player or two away from the level needed to win a title or two. We added that one piece (white) along with a few others (dotson, beebe) and we went over the top. I don't think ANYONE proposes making a team with mostly free agents, but adding a Beebe, Dotson or White seems to have helped fill holes then and could now. For the last 10 years our running games has been poor. Lynch and Jackson are names that have come up that may have helped in the run. Adding Lacy so far has shown the value of having a rushing attack. Some would argue that it may have made a difference in years past too.
     
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