Special Teams 2021-22

[gopkrs]

I think some of us were surprised when BOJO fell into our lap given that he is one of the best punters in the league. His holding leaves something to be desired. Maybe that's why this is his third team in the past year. He's too much of a weapon as a punter to be replaced. Just have to hope that the kicking operation improves. Not to put it all on him. He's dealing with a new snapper. Crosby isn't blameless either, but he was 100% last year and has 5 misses in 9 games now. If this doesn't get fixed soon, it's going to cost them another game or two down the road.

Where does it say the punter has to be the holder? And I totally agree that you don't get rid of your punter because he is a bad holder. Just have someone else do it.

 

[mradtke66]

Someone said that our punter had problems holding in Buffalo.

That was me. I thought I read something to that effect, but I cannot find a source now.

Why not Love?

I don't know any teams that let backup QB hand holding anymore. On Offense periods, the backup QB takes his 3-5 snaps and is taking mental reps the rest of the time. During Defensive periods, the backup QB is running the scout team.

Meanwhile, the entire time, all day, everyday, the specialists can be drilling snap-hold-place-kick. It's an issue of practice time.

And since the punter HAS to field long snaps on punts, he's probably the best at fielding those snaps.

. But he should get blamed if the kickers are jittery because of the rush.

I agree with this point, but I'm not sure if this is a problem with coaching, scheme, or player execution. If the roster doesn't have good enough players, it'll look bad. Of if certain players are deemed to important to block on field goals?

Honestly, it's possible that FGs get fixed when Bhak comes back too. If Kelley is the 4/5 OT, then an Active #69 means Kelley is in-active and the blockers across the board go up a notch.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The bright spot, if there is one, is that there are not usually as many big gaffs in one game as there were yesterday. Even BOJO, who averaged 54 yards, pinged a short 39 yarder his first attempt. Coincidentally it was the only drive the Chiefs scored a TD on.

Also, there were no screw ups on our kick coverage. The Chiefs had 1 KR for 12 yards and 3 PR for 3 yards. Granted it was only 3 attempts but its better than giving up 50 yards.

The rest was simply atrocious however so my bright spots are still mighty dim.

Thank you for providing a little bit bigger spoon to try and bail out a sinking ship

I don't remember anyone here not questioning the Drayton hire. I think it was one of the most consensus bad moves, that we all agreed it was bad. I don't even think the thread lasted very long, because just like something everyone agrees on, there isn't anything to debate.

I guess we should have invite MLF to the Packer forum, to debate the hiring with us. It was a real head scratcher back then and even more so now. I realize that until the college season is over, the Packers aren't really going to find much out there to replace him with. Mennenga appears to still be unemployed. I was surprised to see that Shawn Slocum appears to be having a decent career with ASU as their special teams coordinator.

Shawn Slocum - Assistant Head Coach/Special Teams Coordinator - Staff Directory - Arizona State University Athletics

Former NFL assistant and long-time college assistant coach Shawn Slocum enters his sixth season as the associate head coach/special teams coordinator at ASU. “Coach

thesundevils.com

 

[gopkrs]

Meanwhile, the entire time, all day, everyday, the specialists can be drilling snap-hold-place-kick. It's an issue of practice time.

So you stick with it and hold your breath each kick? Make the time.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Where does it say the punter has to be the holder? And I totally agree that you don't get rid of your punter because he is a bad holder. Just have someone else do it.

For years, they used to have the backup QB due it, but do to the way practices were run, it was easier to split out the 3 guys involved, punter, kicker, long snapper and let them work through drills. Otherwise, your backup QB is missing QB stuff.

I doubt many of the other players have much experience, since that is the way it seems to go in college now (punter holds). You would hate to use a roster spot on someone who's one job was kick holder, but JK Scott is still out there unemployed, just saying.

 

[gopkrs]

I agree with this point, but I'm not sure if this is a problem with coaching, scheme, or player execution. If the roster doesn't have good enough players, it'll look bad. Of if certain players are deemed to important to block on field goals?

Your only as good as your weakest link sometimes. If someone makes you nervous; I think you gotta find another. Or do extra coaching for individuals. Just can't see living with it.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

So you stick with it and hold your breath each kick? Make the time.

Well if I am Drayton and they haven't changed the locks on my office yet, first thing I do is sit Mason, Bozo and Wirtel down. Tell them that they aren't leaving practice until they can give him 20 straight perfect exchanges. Then I would huddle up the return team in a tight formation, pour 5 gallons of gas around them, set it on fire and say....if you can't feel that heat on your ***, then you are doing something wrong!

 

[gopkrs]

For years, they used to have the backup QB due it, but do to the way practices were run, it was easier to split out the 3 guys involved, punter, kicker, long snapper and let them work through drills. Otherwise, your backup QB is missing QB stuff.

I doubt many of the other players have much experience, since that is the way it seems to go in college now (punter holds). You would hate to use a roster spot on someone who's one job was kick holder, but JK Scott is still out there unemployed, just saying.

For me, if I have a great punter that does not hold well; then I find someone else to hold. And make the time to have enough practice. After awhile, it does not take that much practice.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Your only as good as your weakest link sometimes. If someone makes you nervous; I think you gotta find another. Or do extra coaching for individuals. Just can't see living with it.

After the Cincy game, I think Rodgers said something very similar when asked about his friend Mason. He was "Rodgers clear" on the fact that it wasn't Mason that was the problem. Which is why I thought they cut Hunter Bradley the old LS. So that just leaves Bozo or Mason.

 

[gopkrs]

Well if I am Drayton and they haven't changed the locks on my office yet, first thing I do is sit Mason, Bozo and Wirtel down. Tell them that they aren't leaving practice until they can give him 20 straight perfect exchanges. Then I would huddle up the return team in a tight formation, pour 5 gallons of gas around them, set it on fire and say....if you can't feel that heat on your ***, then you are doing something wrong!

Yes I like it. But maybe he just is not going to be good at it. Round peg in a square hole. Find someone else. To hell with their schedule.

 

[mradtke66]

So you stick with it and hold your breath each kick? Make the time.

You're not wrong, but again, modern CBA. Limited practice time.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

For me, if I have a great punter that does not hold well; then I find someone else to hold. And make the time to have enough practice. After awhile, it does not take that much practice.

Maybe they should teach Rodgers how to hold...oh wait, he isn't vaccinated.

 

[gopkrs]

Maybe they should teach Rodgers how to hold...oh wait, he isn't vaccinated.

He could wear a mask.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

He could wear a mask.

Hear we go again...... *grabs a comfy chair and some popcorn*

 

[Pkrjones]

For me, if I have a great punter that does not hold well; then I find someone else to hold. And make the time to have enough practice. After awhile, it does not take that much practice.

Agreed. I'm sure Malik or Patrick Taylor, Randall Cobb, Deguara/Dafney could be spared for 15 minutes/practice. All should have as good/better hands than Bojo, are active every game and could more than adequately do the job.

Absolutely no excuse for the blockers to be overwhelmed EVERY PAT/FG attempt. If they're passively trying to "hold the line" and allowing 6'5+ DL's to push the line AND jump then it should be coached to fire-out and keep the DL's at least grounded or behind the LOS.

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[Pokerbrat2000]

I assume the Packers have a backup holder and that would need to be someone who is usually on the active 46 or it wouldn't be that useful. Time to give them a try and same thing with a backup LS.

Several years ago I read a really good article that broke down why the punter has slowly evolved into the natural holder for NFL teams, when it used to be the backup QB. I can't remember it all, but it mentioned simple things like "good hands", "good under pressure", "takes a roster and game day spot anyway," "that is how its done in college." The article then spent quite a bit of time discussing how practices have evolved into certain units practicing together and that it was difficult for a backup QB to practice with the Kicker and long snapper. Same with the starting center, trying to be the LS too.

Anyway, the article all made sense, maybe the Packers aren't thinking outside the box enough or maybe they just need better coaches working with those 3 guys, which pretty much have only a few duties to practice and play.

 

[OldSchool101]

i don't remember when, but yes they did. If there was a mistake to be made it seems our ST's are going to make it.

That lining up thing should never happen. Zero times in a season. It reminds me of when we used to get some ST infractions from our Punting team. Namely holding.
What in the world are you doing holding if you’re the guy trying to break free to tackle a guy? That doesn’t even make a lick of sense!

 

[KiDcUdI]

It’s just inexcusable to be going into week 10, the problem was identified week 3 and it hasn’t been fixed.

There is no way around that fact. It falls on Drayton but ultimately falls on LaFleur who overseas what happens on the field. After having this problem the first week you say ok we got something work on. It happens again, alright As the coach I’m stepping in to oversee this issue. If this happens 3 times there needs to be consequences and we are beyond that point.

 

[mongoosev]

Every ST coach they get is worse than the last.

And you would think the next one would be special.

 

[milani]

that's partly because they keep choosing assistants to the last bad coach. another factor is that they wait too long to make a decision and we are left with the worst possible choices.

I guess like everywhere else there is loads of jobs but no one who wants to work. So you hire anything on two legs.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

First place I would look for a new ST coach is other NFL teams that have top Special teams. I would look for an assistant to the current ST coach. Should be easy enough to convince him/her to take a jump in salary and be in charge. I might steer clear of college coaches. College teams can suit up a ton of guys, thus they can literally create special teams out of players that do nothing but special teams. So I would think their transition to the NFL involves a bit of a learning curve. I also think its a whole different animal to coach. College you have 90 or so guys, that while they were the best players in H.S. they aren't necessarily great players with big heads. Many of them just play football to get a college education. Then you have the elite athletes and players that do make it into the NFL. These guys have always been at the top and perhaps never had to play special teams. Trying to get NFL guys motivated to play special teams, has to be a bit of a challenge.

 

[KiDcUdI]

First place I would look for a new ST coach is other NFL teams that have top Special teams. I would look for an assistant to the current ST coach. Should be easy enough to convince him/her to take a jump in salary and be in charge. I might steer clear of college coaches. College teams can suit up a ton of guys, thus they can literally create special teams out of players that do nothing but special teams. So I would think their transition to the NFL involves a bit of a learning curve. I also think its a whole different animal to coach. College you have 90 or so guys, that while they were the best players in H.S. they aren't necessarily great players with big heads. Many of them just play football to get a college education. Then you have the elite athletes and players that do make it into the NFL. These guys have always been at the top and perhaps never had to play special teams. Trying to get NFL guys motivated to play special teams, has to be a bit of a challenge.

This is what I said. You teach what you know and you know what youve learned. Get a guy who was an understudy to a successful STs unit. Why would you hire from within a bad STs unit? It just makes no sense.

 

[JKramer64]

First place I would look for a new ST coach is other NFL teams that have top Special teams. I would look for an assistant to the current ST coach. Should be easy enough to convince him/her to take a jump in salary and be in charge. I might steer clear of college coaches. College teams can suit up a ton of guys, thus they can literally create special teams out of players that do nothing but special teams. So I would think their transition to the NFL involves a bit of a learning curve. I also think its a whole different animal to coach. College you have 90 or so guys, that while they were the best players in H.S. they aren't necessarily great players with big heads. Many of them just play football to get a college education. Then you have the elite athletes and players that do make it into the NFL. These guys have always been at the top and perhaps never had to play special teams. Trying to get NFL guys motivated to play special teams, has to be a bit of a challenge.

I'm not sure motivation is that big of a challenge. Summers and Burks are still on an NFL roster. Yiadom is a lousy CB, but he's still there because of ST. Jarret Bush made a good living for years. These guys know their limitations and ST is how they stay on a team.

 

[Schultz]

I assume the Packers have a backup holder and that would need to be someone who is usually on the active 46 or it wouldn't be that useful. Time to give them a try and same thing with a backup LS.

Several years ago I read a really good article that broke down why the punter has slowly evolved into the natural holder for NFL teams, when it used to be the backup QB. I can't remember it all, but it mentioned simple things like "good hands", "good under pressure", "takes a roster and game day spot anyway," "that is how its done in college." The article then spent quite a bit of time discussing how practices have evolved into certain units practicing together and that it was difficult for a backup QB to practice with the Kicker and long snapper. Same with the starting center, trying to be the LS too.

Anyway, the article all made sense, maybe the Packers aren't thinking outside the box enough or maybe they just need better coaches working with those 3 guys, which pretty much have only a few duties to practice and play.

Earlier this year a reporter asked Belichek about the roster spot that a long snapper takes up, whether it is worth it or not. Well one word answer Bill went on for over 5 minutes on the history of the long snapper. It was like he had been waiting for that question his whole career and Christmas had come early that day.

 

[PikeBadger]

I think some of us were surprised when BOJO fell into our lap given that he is one of the best punters in the league. His holding leaves something to be desired. Maybe that's why this is his third team in the past year. He's too much of a weapon as a punter to be replaced. Just have to hope that the kicking operation improves. Not to put it all on him. He's dealing with a new snapper. Crosby isn't blameless either, but he was 100% last year and has 5 misses in 9 games now. If this doesn't get fixed soon, it's going to cost them another game or two down the road.

If Bojourquez needs to be replaced, have Cobb or Love work on it.