Should we draft 2 safeties

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HardRightEdge

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To get Barr we'd have to trade up to around the #5 or #6 pick. That would mean our #21 and #63 picks AT LEAST, and i don't think that would be enough for Oakland or Atlanta to agree to it. Plus, if this draft is supposed to be so deep, it would make sense to hold onto your 2nd and 3rd round picks because there should be some real talent still there.
A #21 and a #63 is way too low for a #5 or #6 pick.

Consider the draft value chart. While not universally accepted nor followed blindly, trades follow it pretty closely:

http://walterfootball.com/draftchart.php

#5 and #6 score 1700 and 1600 respectively. #21 + #63 only gets you to 800 + 276 = 1076.

We'd need to give up our 2014 and 2015 first rounders to get up into the #5 / #6 range, plus a kicker because of the uncertainty of where we'll finish next year.

The chart illustrates the value the league places on playmakers / impact players.
 
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ivo610

ivo610

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We paid Burnett a lot of money. He's going to play. Replacing him through the draft is about as likely as trading up for a top 5 pick. It's hardly worth considering.

So if we have a high value on a safety in the 5th round don't take one if we took one in the 1st or 2nd?
 

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Forget Favre

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You know your team had a lousy season when the SB hasn't even been played and you're looking forward to the draft. Do you think Broncs and 'Hawks fans are discussing the draft over on their fan forums? Somehow I doubt it.
 

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So if we have a high value on a safety in the 5th round don't take one if we took one in the 1st or 2nd?
In 2005, Thompson drafted three safeties getting Nick Collins in the 2nd round. Since then all of his safety picks in the 4th round or lower failed while his two picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds have proved decent.
 
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HardRightEdge

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So if we have a high value on a safety in the 5th round don't take one if we took one in the 1st or 2nd?
Well, by the time you get to the fifth round you're looking for backups, special teams guys, developmental players. If you get a starter out of that pick by dint of performance, not injury, that's an unexpected surprise, not something you plan for.

I interpreted your question as posed in the title of this thread to mean, "should we draft 2 safeties to compete as starters." Otherwise, I don't see the point of the post. We could take 2 guys at nearly any position by the time you start counting low round picks. I think it's a given that our #2 safeties have been fairly dreadful the past 2 years; that means our #3 would not take much to upgrade. That consideration hardly merits a standalone thread.

As an FYI, to chew on regarding my first statement in this post regarding the expected value of 5th. round picks, here are TT's 5th. round picks:

Hyde
Boyd
Manning
D.J. Williams
Quarless
Newhouse
Quinn Johnson
Jamon Merideth
Giacomini
David Clowney
Ingle Martin
Tony Moll
Junius Costin
Michael Hawkins

I could be mistaken, but the only guys on this list who got any meaningful snaps as rookies were Moll, Quarless and Hyde. Hyde would not have seen much of the field were it not for Heyward's injury. Same for Quarless vis a vis the injury to Finley. McCarthy said of Moll, "If you'd told me Tony Moll would be starting for us in the spring after the first minicamp, frankly, I would've taken that bet." Moll was not drafted with the expectation he'd play.

The better question would be, "will we take two D-Linemen high enough to expect both to compete to start".
 
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HardRightEdge

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Not a big deal but your post didn't reflect your comprehension that I was talking about Thompson, not myself.
Meet Morgan Burnett. He plays safety for the Green Bay Packers. The Packers are a team in the National Football League...
http://www.packers.com/team/roster/Morgan-Burnett/f6075ba5-5bde-4448-a5f8-26e03b0a9849 :D
I have a hard time thinking rodell forgot who Burnett is. I think he was trying to be funny, as in, "if a player doesn't show up, does he exist?"
 

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You know your team had a lousy season when the SB hasn't even been played and you're looking forward to the draft. Do you think Broncs and 'Hawks fans are discussing the draft over on their fan forums? Somehow I doubt it.
Odd time to post this since fans of 30 NFL teams are in the same boat. You would have a point if, for example, we were looking forward to the draft with three or four games left in the regular season. But we weren't ... so you don't. :D
 

Forget Favre

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Odd time to post this since fans of 30 NFL teams are in the same boat. You would have a point if, for example, we were looking forward to the draft with three or four games left in the regular season. But we weren't ... so you don't. :D
I dunno why you think my post has odd timing. :confused:
We would probably be discussing anything other than the draft if we were playing in the SB.
 

TJV

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I dunno why you think my post has odd timing. :confused:
We would probably be discussing anything other than the draft if we were playing in the SB.
You know your team had a lousy season when the SB hasn't even been played and you're looking forward to the draft. Do you think Broncs and 'Hawks fans are discussing the draft over on their fan forums? Somehow I doubt it.
So a team that over-achieved and made the playoffs, or one that made the conference championship game had a "lousy season". (Wouldn't think I'd have to spell this out) Also, as I posted, 30 other teams are in the same position so your post is saying 30 teams had lousy seasons. Unless you expect a Super Bowl appearance every season, that's nonsense.
 

NelsonsLongCatch

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Get bodies in camp at the safety position any way possible.

Also, give MD Jennings a ticket on the same flight out of town as Marshall Newhouse.
 
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ivo610

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Well, by the time you get to the fifth round you're looking for backups, special teams guys, developmental players. If you get a starter out of that pick by dint of performance, not injury, that's an unexpected surprise, not something you plan for.

I interpreted your question as posed in the title of this thread to mean, "should we draft 2 safeties to compete as starters." Otherwise, I don't see the point of the post. We could take 2 guys at nearly any position by the time you start counting low round picks. I think it's a given that our #2 safeties have been fairly dreadful the past 2 years; that means our #3 would not take much to upgrade. That consideration hardly merits a standalone thread.

As an FYI, to chew on regarding my first statement in this post regarding the expected value of 5th. round picks, here are TT's 5th. round picks:

Hyde
Boyd
Manning
D.J. Williams
Quarless
Newhouse
Quinn Johnson
Jamon Merideth
Giacomini
David Clowney
Ingle Martin
Tony Moll
Junius Costin
Michael Hawkins

I could be mistaken, but the only guys on this list who got any meaningful snaps as rookies were Moll, Quarless and Hyde. Hyde would not have seen much of the field were it not for Heyward's injury. Same for Quarless vis a vis the injury to Finley. McCarthy said of Moll, "If you'd told me Tony Moll would be starting for us in the spring after the first minicamp, frankly, I would've taken that bet." Moll was not drafted with the expectation he'd play.

The better question would be, "will we take two D-Linemen high enough to expect both to compete to start".

If you have a question like that you should start a thread like that.

I don't expect much out of rookies, so to find 2 that could be starters would be a minor miracle even if we took the top 2 in the draft. I have such concern at the position that I think doubling down could be an option.

I used the 5th rd as an example of a place in the draft. It was not a concrete place I think we should draft a certain position. But in defense of a position I didn't take, just bc Ted hasn't had success in the 5th doesn't mean you give up on it.
 
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ivo610

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In 2005, Thompson drafted three safeties getting Nick Collins in the 2nd round. Since then all of his safety picks in the 4th round or lower failed while his two picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds have proved decent.
Packers did something similar with the corner position when randy moss came into the league.
 

NOMOFO

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which may (and i emphasize may) be true but i've gotten so desperate watching this defense man. Excuse me if i'm thinking outside the box but i'm tired of the defense holding the team back. At least if you're not going to invest in FA draft IMPACT players or trade up for them if you have to.

I am all for it if we can get a slam dunk pick. ...but...and maybe somebody can post an article on this if they have it...do you understand that history shows that top 10 draft picks more often than not don't play up to their money?
 

rodell330

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I am all for it if we can get a slam dunk pick. ...but...and maybe somebody can post an article on this if they have it...do you understand that history shows that top 10 draft picks more often than not don't play up to their money?


I just think of von Miller and the impact he has on the Denver defense...same with luke Kuechly. If we can just find one more backer who' s a game changer the dynamics of this defense would improve big time. TT needs to take more risk. I know you guys adore Teddy but he's not that good at picking impact players on defense in the draft, he's gotten lucky a few times but the proof is in the pudding. If you're also a baseball guy such as myself, i compared him to Ryan Dunn a while back... a guy who will hit alot of homeruns but strikes out way to much.
 

Packers_16-0

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The Seahawks picked an Impact player in round 5 pick 154 in the 2011 draft. Who was the player the player is the best corner in the league Richard Sherman. Maybe we could do the same thing but in the safety position
 

rodell330

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The Seahawks picked an Impact player in round 5 pick 154 in the 2011 draft. Who was the player the player is the best corner in the league Richard Sherman. Maybe we could do the same thing but in the safety position

doubt it..we will take some offensive linemen or linebacker who will never see the field.
 
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HardRightEdge

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If you have a question like that you should start a thread like that.
That's called a rhetorical question, and it would be premature. Among our 4 big body D-Linemen, including the 3 starters, we'll lose at least 1, maybe 3, probably 2. We'll see where free agency takes us in terms guys going out and perhaps a guy coming in. The way Capers plays it we need at least 3 on the roster...NT, strong side DE and a backup.
 

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