Should Packers sign Zach Orr?

Should Packers sign Zach Orr?


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There's no reason for the Packers to sign Orr as he wasn't a dominant player by any means even before the congenital spinal condition was discovered.
 

jakemillar

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The situation is bizarre & if I was the Packers I'd be skeptical of a player who just retired from congenital spine issues who now wants to play again not even a year after deciding to retire because of it?

There's no reason for the Packers to sign Orr as he wasn't a dominant player by any means even before the congenital spinal condition was discovered.

He had 132 tackles, 5 PBUs and 3 INTs in 2016. Maybe my definition of "dominant" is different than yours...

He would be one of the best ILBs the Packers have ever had. Why the need for "dominant" when all you've ever had is average and you could significantly upgrade?
 
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He had 132 tackles, 5 PBUs and 3 INTs in 2016. Maybe my definition of "dominant" is different than yours...

He would be one of the best ILBs the Packers have ever had. Why the need for "dominant" when all you've ever had is average and you could significantly upgrade?

Orr was decent in coverage but the total number of tackles doesn't mean a whole lot without having any information about how many of those actually resulted in a positive play.

According to PFF he struggled mightily defending the run.
 

Dantés

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If the Packers signed a guy who already has a neck injury, he would probably die.
 

Mondio

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it's not an injury though and depending on surrounding anantomy and exactly what the issue is, as most non unions are completely benign, it may be just one of those things you see that never causes anything. But where it is certainly gives a lot of cause for concern. Absent any symptoms for my entire life, I might be inclined to lace them up again. Sounds like he loved playing for the Ravens, if he's cleared I would t be surprised to see him give them a good shot at signing him back.
 
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Sounds like he loved playing for the Ravens, if he's cleared I would t be surprised to see him give them a good shot at signing him back.

This quote by Ravens GM Ozzie Newsome doesn't make me believe he's overly excited about Orr wanting to play again:

I spoke with Zach yesterday and he informed me that he would like to continue to play football. He is a free agent.
 

Favre>Rodgers259

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I would call this a "John Dorsey Move". Sign him for peanuts and....

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jakemillar

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Orr was decent in coverage but the total number of tackles doesn't mean a whole lot without having any information about how many of those actually resulted in a positive play.

According to PFF he struggled mightily defending the run.

It's strange to me how some cling to PFF grades as the end all be all of how good a player is... if PFF says he's bad against the run than WHO CARES that the only LBs with better stats than him are Bobby Wagner & Luke Kuechly, right?!

Bottom line, Zach Orr is in another league than either Thomas, Ryan or Martinez. Period. If GB would be able to get him at a relatively lower price, based on the injury situation, why not?

To me, there's a striking correlation between the quality of ILB play the Packers have had and Haha Clinton-Dix & Burnett having almost 100+ tackles each of the last two years...
 

Dantés

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It's strange to me how some cling to PFF grades as the end all be all of how good a player is... if PFF says he's bad against the run than WHO CARES that the only LBs with better stats than him are Bobby Wagner & Luke Kuechly, right?!

Bottom line, Zach Orr is in another league than either Thomas, Ryan or Martinez. Period. If GB would be able to get him at a relatively lower price, based on the injury situation, why not?

To me, there's a striking correlation between the quality of ILB play the Packers have had and Haha Clinton-Dix & Burnett having almost 100+ tackles each of the last two years...

Isn't saying "he's better, period" based on stats kind of the same concept as basing is on pff?
 
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It's strange to me how some cling to PFF grades as the end all be all of how good a player is... if PFF says he's bad against the run than WHO CARES that the only LBs with better stats than him are Bobby Wagner & Luke Kuechly, right?!

I'm not considering PFF's grades as a perfect way to evaluate a player's performance by any means but it's a far more in-depth analysis than just using the total number of tackles.

Yet for some unknown reason you don't show any reluctane to use them as the be-all and end-ball measuring an inside linebacker although it doesn't tell anything about the quality of the play.

As an example, I for sure don't consider A.J. Hawk the best ILB to ever play for the Packers although leads in franchise in tackles.
 

AmishMafia

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As I recall, a vertebrae in his neck was so badly deteriated, experts were shocked that it hadn't already snapped.

Risk of death/paralysis is too great. Don't want to see that. No thanks.
 

Mondio

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i don't think it was a degenerative condition, I thought t was a case of non-union of a vertebra which is very different in terms of cause and prognosis. I knew nothing of his situation till I read an article the other day and I thought they said non union in C1, which he would have been born with.

I have no opinion on what he should do. Very little information out there. It may very well be one of those things that sounds so much worse than it is. a lifetime of football and no symptoms? I might keep playing. Disc herniation is not that common at that level and usually injury to that area is burst fracture type injuries and those are rare. Not sure he's at any more risk of that then the rest of those playing football.
 
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Why not make it a trifecta and bring him in to compete with Jermichael and Jonathan Franklin or Sam Shields :sneaky:
 

jakemillar

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As I recall, a vertebrae in his neck was so badly deteriated, experts were shocked that it hadn't already snapped.

Risk of death/paralysis is too great. Don't want to see that. No thanks.

Hmmm.... :whistling:

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...h-orr-retire-lions-ravens-20170628-story.html

The above article is in relevance to the highly unlikely event that Orr suffers further reinjury. Specifically in the NFL, this exact same injury has been played through by many players previously, and even some currently who are unaware of it.

I'm not considering PFF's grades as a perfect way to evaluate a player's performance by any means but it's a far more in-depth analysis than just using the total number of tackles.

Yet for some unknown reason you don't show any reluctane to use them as the be-all and end-ball measuring an inside linebacker although it doesn't tell anything about the quality of the play.

As an example, I for sure don't consider A.J. Hawk the best ILB to ever play for the Packers although leads in franchise in tackles.

The correlation between LBs in the last 16 seasons with 120+ tackles in a season and the success of their defense is striking if you look into it on Pro Football Reference. I'm not trying to insult anyone by saying this, just something I noticed and should point out. Sure, not every tackle is the same, but having an ILB who is capable of making that volume of tackles would be of great value to everyone else on the defense, because if the LB doesn't, than your SS or FS is going to have to make it 8 yards further down field.

Speaking in hypotheticals here, which defense do you think would finish ranked higher at the end of a season in Yards Allowed Per Play & Yards Allowed Per Game, the team with 2 ILBs with 100+ tackles, or the team with 2 safeties with 100+ tackles?

All of the commonly rattled off "greatest defenses of all time" (85 Bears, 88 Browns, 00 Ravens, 12-current Seahawks, 15-current Broncos, early 90s Eagles, etc.) lowest ranking in YPG was 4th, and the only one of those teams who had a safety with 100+ tackles was Kam Chancellor, who truly plays more of an in-the-box, Leroy Butler, Rodney Harrison type of safety.

Long story short, if the injury issue is truly manageable and Orr could continue to play NFL football through it, he would be a significant upgrade to the Packer defense.
 
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The correlation between LBs in the last 16 seasons with 120+ tackles in a season and the success of their defense is striking if you look into it on Pro Football Reference. I'm not trying to insult anyone by saying this, just something I noticed and should point out. Sure, not every tackle is the same, but having an ILB who is capable of making that volume of tackles would be of great value to everyone else on the defense, because if the LB doesn't, than your SS or FS is going to have to make it 8 yards further down field.

Taking a look at last season, 11 teams featured at least one linebacker who finished with 120+ tackles. Out of those teams only the Seahawks, Cowboys and Ravens finished within the top 10 scoring defenses. On the other side five clubs out of that group ended the season in the bottom half of the league in that category.

Interestingly the Giants ranked second in points allowed with safety Landon Collins leading the team in tackles at 125.

Long story short, the numbers from 2016 indicate that having an ILB racking up a ton of tackles isn't compulsory a recipe for success.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Given what I have read about Orr, I would be fine with the Packers signing him.....at the right price. But I think there are other teams out there that will be willing to pay him more and the Packers won't even look at him before he signs elsewhere. Any improvement in the LB situation could help the defense. While an OLB would be my first choice, an ILB like Orr would solidify the Packers and their depth at what I view as a current weakness. Ryan, Martinez and Thomas all may have some room to improve, but I would view a 25 year old Orr as an upgrade over any of them.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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I see your trifecta and raise you a Terrance Murphy

I'll match your Terrance Murphy and raise you a 31 year old Nick Collins.

Let's face it, if you play in Green Bay, you best have a strong neck! Maybe someone needs to adjust their pad levels or the weight of that G on the helmet is making them more prone to injury? :whistling:
 

jakemillar

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IMO the the stat more relevant to the success of the defense in today's NFL is YPP and YPG, rather than scoring defense. They both have credence, but the winning teams/defenses lately in the NFL lead the league in yards per game/per play, not always scoring defense.

Not to get off topic, but note that both Landon Collins and Kam Chancellor play predominatly in the box, and as LBs in the big nickel & dime defenses, especially last year with NYG playing Leon Hall, a former CB, and Nat Berhe/Anthony Adams as the centerfielder on like 70% of their snaps.

My main point here is that in Capers defense, Clinton-Dix ideally isn't making 100+ tackles from his center field safety position. I don't think it's much of a stretch to say that if your predominant deep defender is making an absurd amount of tackles, that's in one way or another an indictment of the players who play underneath him in the front 7 not making the play sooner, more times than not. This isn't always the case, but logic tells me that if Mike Daniels or Blake Martinez make a tackle, it's probably not as far down field as the one Haha Clinton-Dix is then forced to make.
 
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IMO the the stat more relevant to the success of the defense in today's NFL is YPP and YPG, rather than scoring defense. They both have credence, but the winning teams/defenses lately in the NFL lead the league in yards per game/per play, not always scoring defense.

I vehemently disagree with your take that yards given up per play or game are even close to being as important as points allowed.
 

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