Pettine poll

[Dantés]

And then there's the most obvious-- 44 sacks (8T) without any exceptional edge rushers.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

Shouldn't we see at least one good game from him? The only two good defensive performances were against teams which were allergic to offense.

Here's what LaFluer dealt with:

1) A nerve injury to his QBs throwing arm which affected his ability to grip a ball in the first half of game 1. This lingered throughout the year and he was pulled out of several games after aggravating it.

2) His pro bowl TE went down in game 1. Backup TE went down later in the year.

3) Leading receiver from the previous year quit after 3rd game. Remaining #2-#3 receivers were injured at various times throughout the year.

4) His best lineman never fully recovered from ACL injury in January and went back to IR

He had a skeleton crew in the passing game throughout the entire season. Despite this, he put up 28 against Dallas, 34 against NE, 30 against Jacksonville- All Top 10 defenses. His offense had two game winning drives with Blaine Gabbert at QB (4 with both QBs). His starting QB significantly improved his QB rating, completion percentage, YPA, and TD/INT ratio despite a nerve injury and missing his top receivers the entire year. His receivers averaged half a yard more of separation per Target than the previous year, per Next Gen stats. They were top 10 in plays per drive,TOP per drive, and competition percentage, converted 3rd downs at a higher rate than GB, and were the least penalized offense in the league.

Looking deeper into his performance, as I did above, you can see that LaFluer actually did a much better job than the box score indicates. In his first year as an OC. You can see the potential.

Looking at the advanced defensive statistics of GB, they are mediocre to awful all the way around. Literally all you have to go off of with the Pettine is the "eye test", because he didn't do a good job in any area.

As far as blaming the offensive ineptitude for the defensive woes, GB was 22nd in yards allowed per drive. It wasn't the offense. It was them.

 

[longtimefan]

Shouldn't we see at least one good game from him? The only two good defensive performances were against teams which were allergic to offense.

Here's what LaFluer dealt with:

1) A nerve injury to his QBs throwing arm which affected his ability to grip a ball in the first half of game 1. This lingered throughout the year and he was pulled out of several games after aggravating it.

2) His pro bowl TE went down in game 1. Backup TE went down later in the year.

3) Leading receiver from the previous year quit after 3rd game. Remaining #2-#3 receivers were injured at various times throughout the year.

4) His best lineman never fully recovered from ACL injury in January and went back to IR

He had a skeleton crew in the passing game throughout the entire season. Despite this, he put up 28 against Dallas, 34 against NE, 30 against Jacksonville- All Top 10 defenses. His offense had two game winning drives with Blaine Gabbert at QB (4 with both QBs). His starting QB significantly improved his QB rating, completion percentage, YPA, and TD/INT ratio despite a nerve injury and missing his top receivers the entire year. His receivers averaged half a yard more of separation per Target than the previous year, per Next Gen stats. They were top 10 in plays per drive,TOP per drive, and competition percentage, converted 3rd downs at a higher rate than GB, and were the least penalized offense in the league.

Looking deeper into his performance, as I did above, you can see that LaFluer actually did a much better job than the box score indicates. In his first year as an OC. You can see the potential.

Looking at the advanced defensive statistics of GB, they are mediocre to awful all the way around. Literally all you have to go off of with the Pettine is the "eye test", because he didn't do a good job in any area.

As far as blaming the offensive ineptitude for the defensive woes, GB was 22nd in yards allowed per drive. It wasn't the offense. It was them.

Many call ins to radio sports talk, Twitter, etc majority.. Huge majority are in favor of Pettine . And.so far here as well...

Is it everyone but you are wrong?

 

[Patriotplayer90]

Many call ins to radio sports talk, Twitter, etc majority.. Huge majority are in favor of Pettine . And.so far here as well...

Is it everyone but you are wrong?

I'm just waiting for proof that he actually did a good job. Ladarius Gunter was our #1 CB in 2016, and Clark and Martinez were nothing close to what they are now. Capers had a skeleton crew, yet we the defense was roughly the same as it was this year. And people couldn't wait to be rid of him.

Honestly, the opinion of fans and talking heads doesn't mean much. Most of them wanted to keep McCarthy, despite being less efficient in many areas with the best QB in the league compared to a first year OC who conducted an offense with a QB who couldn't grip a ball and has mostly spare parts at receiver. You all are loyal and faithful to a fault. I prefer to take an unbiased look at the results rather than judge a guy by his performance in 2010.

 

[longtimefan]

Honestly, the opinion of fans and talking heads doesn't mean much. .

so that includes you.. Thanks for admitting that

 

[Patriotplayer90]

so that includes you.. Thanks for admitting that

I've got something to support my opinion, at least. As well as some statistical data which supports another coach being able to elevate his talent despite dire circumstances. The only thing pro-Pettine people have are excuses.

 

[longtimefan]

I've got something to support my opinion, at least. As well as some statistical data which supports another coach being able to elevate his talent despite dire circumstances. The only thing pro-Pettine people have are excuses.

quarter poll, opposing QB'S were averaging a passer rating of 26 when the Packers blitzed

on December 10th, Been Fennell tweeted that Mike Pettine's defense was 7th in the NFL at getting 3 & outs, which was up from 26th in 2017 and 30th in 2016.

44 sacks (8T) without any exceptional edge rushers.

The Packers’ 44 sacks ranked eighth in the NFL and was the most by the team since 2013.

Injuries were a huge issue, with the entire starting defensive line winding up on injured reserve along with top cornerback Kevin King


Stats, not excuses

 

[rmontro]

Honestly, the opinion of fans and talking heads doesn't mean much. Most of them wanted to keep McCarthy, despite being less efficient in many areas

I don't believe that is true, most Packer fans were ready to move on from McCarthy if we missed the playoffs this year, although most were probably willing to wait until the end of the season. As it turns out, I think the early firing worked out. Things had just run their course in GB.

I do feel bad for McCarthy not getting the Jets job, I was hoping to watch him have some success elsewhere. Now he says he's going to sit out 201o. The Packers paid him well, so I'm sure he can afford to. The Jets wanted someone to develop Sam Darnell, and probably what happened with Brett Hundley didn't help him.

 

[Dantés]

I can recall multiple games (e.g. Rams, Seahawks) where the defense did a great job, but the offense wouldn't do anything with the ball. So as the game wore on, and the defense wore out, the opposing teams started scoring.

 

[longtimefan]

One key area where the Packers improved was third down, soaring from 28th to 13th

 

[Dantés]

I've got something to support my opinion, at least. As well as some statistical data which supports another coach being able to elevate his talent despite dire circumstances. The only thing pro-Pettine people have are excuses.

I've supplied you with quite a few statistical arguments whether from Pettine's past or from this most recent season. You're ignoring them or dismissing them without consideration.

You literally asked "what is DVOA?" and stated that "it's meaningless" in one breath. You don't know what it is, but you know it doesn't have meaning...

Now you're correct in that you have plenty of statistical argument from 2018 that stacks against Pettine. So your take is that he sucks and you're sticking with it. That's fine. But those who are happy he's getting another crack at it aren't holding that opinion blindly.

He came in with excellent credentials and his unit flashed some potential and promise in year one. As has been stated, his talent wasn't amazing (e.g. his best edge rusher was Kyler Fackrell; his best safety was mistake prone and then traded; his best corner was a rookie who took his lumps at time) and his unit did not prove durable (Wilkerson played 11% of the snaps; Perry 28%; King 29%; Daniels 39%; Clinton-Dix 43%). Here's the entire list of players who played more than half of the snaps on the season: Brice (61), Lowry (65), Jackson (67), Clark (68), Matthews (71), Alexander (71), Martinez (99), and Williams (99).

Literally he had two difference-making, impactful players who played more than half the time: Clark and Alexander (the latter being a rookie).

These are not excuses. These are realities that provide context. No one is saying that Pettine is perfect and has no room to improve-- none of it is his fault. But if you're going to consider his results without the context, you're wasting your time.

If the Packers want a great defense, they need to 1) improve the talent, 2) stay healthy, whether by improved practices or luck, and 3) teach the game better to their players, ideally with an improved staff behind Pettine as the coordinator.

 

[longtimefan]

https://lombardiave.com/2018/10/29/packers-rams-three-takeaways/amp/2/

The Packers sacked Jared Goff five times and had eight quarterback hits. They forced the Rams into a number of third-and-long situations, and got some key stops.

Los Angeles’ first five possessions all resulted in punts. That would’ve been hard to believe before the game.

 

[Poppa San]

https://lombardiave.com/2018/10/29/packers-rams-three-takeaways/amp/2/

Packers had the lead in this game with 3 minutes to play.

IRT the OP, 15 players received snaps at DB this season. Four were not on the opening roster. Two were gotten rid of by week 11 and two more went to IR by that time. Three of these four were penciled in as starters/high snap count guys coming out of camp.

 

[XPack]

Why am I not surprised by Patriotplayer posts in this thread?

Seems to be the only one with agenda against Pettine.

Perhaps we should have sent Dom Capers to the Pats.

 

[longtimefan]

Why am I not surprised by Patriotplayer posts in this thread?

Seems to be the only one with agenda against Pettine.

Perhaps we should have sent Dom Capers to the Pats.

This poll was to show him how many think Pettine does deserve to be back

 

[XPack]

This poll was to show him how many think Pettine does deserve to be back

fair point. But I thought it was obvious he was trolling about Mike!

 

[elcid]

There is no question that the defense immensely improved this year, what games have you been watching @Patriotplayer90 ? With pretty much a similar amount of talent we have been able to flat out stop the Rams, one of the most high flying offenses, for over a half. They produced a shut out. They hang for almost the entire game.

This year, it has been definitely been on the offense.

FWIW, I basically voted for all the options except for Pettine wasnt capable.

 

[HardRightEdge]

This poll was to show him how many think Pettine does deserve to be back

You give him that much credit?

 

[OldSchool101]

Many things in this game or this life, good or bad, cannot be attributed to a single cause.

That’s simple but profound with a flair of Thomas Jefferson in it. It’s a more complex version of the old saying “It is what it is”. Nicely done.

 

[HardRightEdge]

That’s simple but profound with a flair of Thomas Jefferson in it. It’s a more complex version of the old saying “It is what it is”. Nicely done.

Thanks for those kind words even if I'm not a big fan of T.J., a guy who hated Hamilton's construction of an increasingly strong Federal government then spun around and used that same federal framework and the Hamiltonianian strategy of federal assumption of debt to finance the Louisiana Purchase. And there's that little matter of slavery. But I digress.

My Second Law of Problem Solving Dyamics a problem become exponentially more difficut to fix the more causes there are.

The Third Law is if multiple problems exist, and you stop identying them at just one, you'll end up spinning your wheels or worse.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I know this has been re hashed all over but thought a formal poll would help

Good idea. And thanks for the last option. Other than the DL and maybe the secondary, there’s not a lot of deep talent on the D. Injuries to Daniels and Clark hurt, but this unit needs some impact players at rusher and safety. As for Fackrell, I’ll believe in him if he puts up another year like this last one.

 

[HardRightEdge]

People also forget how effective the defense was blitzing before all of the injuries. At the quarter poll, opposing QB'S were averaging a passer rating of 26 when the Packers blitzed.

That's an impressive stat.

And then there's the most obvious-- 44 sacks (8T) without any exceptional edge rushers.

That stat taken by itself is not so very meaningful without considering how it is done. If you generate that with a 4 man rush and zone, that's pretty impressive. If you generate it with heavy blitz packages and man defense where it is nearly axiomatic that you will get a reduced INT count with more vulnerabilities when the pressure isn't applied, that's something entirely different.

 

[rmontro]

Thanks for those kind words even if I'm not a big fan of T.J., a guy who hated Hamilton's construction of an increasingly strong Federal government then spun around and used that same federal framework and the Hamiltonianian strategy of federal assumption of debt to finance the Louisiana Purchase..

Is that really so bad though? If you lose the argument, you might as well take advantage of the new system to get what you want.

 

[Dantés]

I always find it weird when I post a statistic and get an "optimistic."

 

[Dantés]

That's an impressive stat.

That stat taken by itself is not so very meaningful without considering how it is done. If you generate that with a 4 man rush and zone, that's pretty impressive. If you generate it with heavy blitz packages and man defense where it is nearly axiomatic that you will get a reduced INT count with more vulnerabilities when the pressure isn't applied, that's something entirely different.

Yes, the latter is a good point.