Packers Trade Candidates

[Voyageur]

You lost me here? In a totally unbiased of NFL peers (these were not Packer fans) he was rated the #80 best NFL player in 2024. Although his 2024 Probowl season reflected his change to a new scheme. He led the team in Sacks (7.5/8.0) QB hits (15) and tied his career high 47 tackles, but hit a career high 9 TFL’s. He also had 8 QB knockdowns and only 1 missed tackle across 639 Defensive snaps, which is near perfection.

PFF graded Gary 83% tile of the Edge class. Most impressive was his 75.3% Run grade in a brand new 4-3 scheme.
He did not rank below 50% tile in ANY of the 9 separate key categories used to judge Edge players.

ProBowl

A lot of fans don't see the total impact of a player, just the glitzy plays that show up in highlight reels. A lot of that has to do with their ability to watch games and dissect what they actually see transpiring on the field, often not even mentioned by the announcers.

 

[Thirteen Below]

Parsons would definitely make the Packers defense better, but after this year we'd more than likely loose players to free agency that we need to secure other positions on the team.

That's where I'm at with it too. This team is being built to be a steady, perennial contender, not a "yo-yo" team that goes all in on high-priced talent to hit a 2-3 year window, then spend a a few years drafting in the top 10 or 15 and and trying to rebuild again. It sounds as though it'll take $35-40m X 3 to sign him, and I don't see how we can do that without losing several key players.

It's an intriguing idea, to pull a Reggie White V2, but it's not a practical idea.

No matter what, he isn't going to make up for what's a perceived weakness we have at CB and being a little think on the DL.

That's true, but there's another way of looking at that.

Look at Micah's numbers last year - 12 sacks, 23 QB hits, and 70 pressures in 13 games. You extrapolate that over a 17 game season, and you're looking at 16 sacks, 30 QB hits, and 91 pressures - in other words, that's 8 times per game that he's busting through the O line into the backfield, and almost 3 times per game he's putting the quarterback on the ground.

That makes life significantly easier on the DBs. Doesn't literally "make them better", but gives them an advantage because the quarterback has a fraction of a second less time to make a decision and get rid of the ball. Compensates somewhat for a mediocre secondary.

Having a Parsons on the field also makes things easier for the rest of the DL, because he draws maximum attention every snap.

At this point we have a couple of LB players who could become pretty darned good players this season.....

I think this will be a breakthough season for Cooper, and I've been very high on Hopper ever since the draft. A lot of fans here were down on him, but I never gave up. I knew he was a guy who probably needed a year or ss to hit hos potential, and from what we're hearing from camp, I think he's primed to take a big step forward.

And from what they're sauing about Simons, it sounds as though this may be the year the league finally see why he was a Top 10 pick. Offemsive players who've gone up against him are very impressed.

I think linebacker is going to be one of the key strengths of this team in 2025, and by the end of the year Cooper will be regarded as one of the best linebackers in the league.

and we would be fine without Parsons.

I agree. I just hope to god he doesn't wind up with one of the other Norris Division teams.

 

[Voyageur]

That's where I'm at with it too. This team is being built to be a steady, perennial contender, not a "yo-yo" team that goes all in on high-priced talent to hit a 2-3 year window, then spend a a few years drafting in the top 10 or 15 and and trying to rebuild again. It sounds as though it'll take $35-40m X 3 to sign him, and I don't see how we can do that without losing several key players.

It's an intriguing idea, to pull a Reggie White V2, but it's not a practical idea.



That's true, but there's another way of looking at that.

Look at Micah's numbers last year - 12 sacks, 23 QB hits, and 70 pressures in 13 games. You extrapolate that over a 17 game season, and you're looking at 16 sacks, 30 QB hits, and 91 pressures - in other words, that's 8 times per game that he's busting through the O line into the backfield, and almost 3 times per game he's putting the quarterback on the ground.

That makes life significantly easier on the DBs. Doesn't literally "make them better", but gives them an advantage because the quarterback has a fraction of a second less time to make a decision and get rid of the ball.

Having a Parsons on the field also makes things easier for the rest of the DL, because he draws maximum attention every snap.



I think this will be a breakthough season for Cooper, and I've been very high on Hopper ever since the draft. A lot of fans here were down on him, but I never gave up. I knew he was a guy who probably needed a year or ss to hit hos potential, and from what we're hearing from camp, I think he's primed to take a big step forward.

And from what they're sauing about Simons, it sounds as though this may be the year the league finally see why he was a Top 10 pick. Offemsive players who've gone up against him are very impressed.

I think linebacker is going to be one of the key strengths of this team in 2025, and by the end of the year Cooper will be regarded as one of the best linebackers in the league.



I agree. I just hope to god he doesn't wind up with one of the other Norris Division teams.

That's what I see with Cooper and Hopper as well. Plus, I think Van Ness is going to show some moves this year. He's also ready to come out of his shell.

 

[Thirteen Below]

That's what I see with Cooper and Hopper as well. Plus, I think Van Ness is going to show some moves this year. He's also ready to come out of his shell.

I agree on Van Ness. I don't know if he's ever going to fully justify the 13th pick (especially when you stop to consider that Parsons was a 12), but I don't think 8 sacks, 35-40 pressures, and 12-15 hits is an unreasonable expectation for his draft position.

I like the kid, and hope he does well.

 

[OldSchool101]

That Parsons plays like he was a #3 overall player. He’s fantastic. That said you have to trust in your process. One thing the Packers stress is bringing players along gradual. I think that shows up in rating those players because often it’s like Jordan Love.. they take 4 years to Shine. Looks horrible on those 3 years lost for a 1st Rounder. However what’s not accounted for is the 15 seasons of Postseason Visits that player provides.

Id say judge your talent based on team results. If you told me I had a team with a #8 scoring Offense and #6 Scoring Defense? I can tell you that’s nearly EXACTLY the averaged scoring model for the SB Winning teams going back nearly 60 years of results. Some seasons that would get you a Championship, some they’ll be an Eagles team overlapping that with a #7 ranked scoring O and #2 ranked scoring Defense.

Now some seasons you’ll see a #15 ranked Offense with a #2 ranked Defense win a SB (KC) Or #7 ranked Offense with a #2 ranked Defense (Eagles) or a #1 ranked Offense with a #16 ranked Defense (KC). There’s different ways to get it done. Yet if GB improves even the slightest bit (#5 rated D with a #6 rated Offense? A #5 rated Offense with a #5 rated Defense? they will cause significant problems for opponents into Postseason… unless our opponent is #2 Defense—#4 scoring Offense

 

[Sunshinepacker]

You lost me here? In a totally unbiased of NFL peers (these were not Packer fans) he was rated the #80 best NFL player in 2024. Although his 2024 Probowl season reflected his change to a new scheme. He led the team in Sacks (7.5/8.0) QB hits (15) and tied his career high 47 tackles, but hit a career high 9 TFL’s. He also had 8 QB knockdowns, 1 FF/FR and only 1 missed tackle across 639 Defensive snaps, which is near perfection.

PFF graded Gary 83% tile of the Edge class. Most impressive was his 75.3% Run grade in a brand new 4-3 scheme.
He did not rank below 50% tile in ANY of the 9 separate key categories used to judge Edge players.

ProBowl

Okay, sure, last year was just an off year for a very good player. Did you happen to read about his value added from early round picks? Cause Gary is part of that 6th worst ranking. Btw, I’m not trying to claim that Gute is the sixth worst in the early rounds of the draft (i don’t think that value measure is accurate enough for that) but it does show he’s certainly below average.

 

[Voyageur]

Okay, sure, last year was just an off year for a very good player. Did you happen to read about his value added from early round picks? Cause Gary is part of that 6th worst ranking. Btw, I’m not trying to claim that Gute is the sixth worst in the early rounds of the draft (i don’t think that value measure is accurate enough for that) but it does show he’s certainly below average.

What I will say is that Gute has found a way to bring the Packers through a difficult series of years where the Packers have seen a huge amount of cap space no longer being with the team. I'm not saying he didn't help to create the problem, but he has stocked the shelves well enough that the wheels haven't come off the bus and we haven't seen a 6 win season or worse. That's rarely the case for teams that create cap problems like the Packers did. They usually fall for years as they try to rebuild and rid themselves of the dead cap.

Good drafting or bad drafting, I think you need to look at the record as we've navigated through this period of time and quite honestly, it's pretty impressive.

As for the question of players taken in the early rounds, there have been first round picks that have contributed significantly to the team since his arrival. They may not be names that ring out as the finest and best of a draft but when you draft outside the top 20 year after year, you look for players who have a bright future in the league because they can't miss caliber players are usually already gone.

Under Brian Gutekunst's leadership as Packers GM, the team has made the following first-round draft picks: 2018: Jaire Alexander (No. 18), 2019: Rashan Gary (No. 12) and Darnell Savage (No. 21), 2020: Jordan Love (No. 26), 2021: Eric Stokes (No. 29), 2022: Quay Walker (No. 22) and Devonte Wyatt (No. 27), 2023: Lukas Van Ness (No. 13), and 2024: Jordan Morgan (No. 25).

You can always look at a player or two that's drafted after them who are much better and wonder why they didn't take them but that's not considering the need the team had at the time the pick was made. Grading a draft simply by asking if the player was better than everyone drafted after them isn't realistic. Teams fill needs if they're smart to stay competitive. The stats junkies rarely see that. All they see is numbers that are meaningless.

Solid teams win even when they have off years because they plan for unexpected events. Even grabbing Malik Willis in a trade was genius on the part of Gute. They gave up a 7th round pick which would have been one of the last 6 or 7 players taken in the entire draft. To me, the Packers could claim that Willis was a 7th round pick, added for depth but nobody is talking about that because nobody sees that as a stat. Fact is, it is a stat because it was a genius move. Willis pulled the Packers out of a potential disaster when Love went down with an injury, and now his stock is higher than it's ever been, and if they do decide to trade him, they could get a much better pick than a 7th and that is just how good Gute has done with the draft.

Maybe I see the game differently than a lot of people. I see it from a perspective that it takes 11 guys on the field for every play, and you can't afford 5 super stars out there and 6 clowns with floppy shoes. No matter how good those stars are, the clowns are going to cause them to be neutralized because of their ineptness. Anyhow, I'm a team builder, not a star chaser.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I think the belief in most front offices is that an experienced free agent who is game ready is worth more than a rookie draft pick who needs to spend time learning the game and is therefore fairly useless in most cases for at least part of a year and often longer.

If you look at a 4-year rookie contract that pays someone $2 mill a year and won't be of value until often year 3, you only get two years where the real return is felt, so it's essentially costing $4 mill a year for his productive years on the contract. Then there's the obvious situation where the guy is given a contract and never makes it to the field as a regular. You take those two concerns, for a new player, and compare it to the value of a game ready player in free agency and you see that giving that FA $4 mill a year in a contract is a fair trade off, in fact a better deal in a way, because he fills both roles in one. He becomes the starter, and he reduces the need for a backup on the bench who is instantly game ready all in respect to protecting that rookie who just isn't ready to offer the team what they need.

We say they are overpaying, they feel they are protecting the future by giving others a chance to grow into the part and keep the cost of replacements on the bench down. It's a gamble of course because the experienced free agent can be a flop too, but most teams don't put too much out there in advance for their services if they aren't positive, they will need them.

A prime example of the latter is Hardman. If he doesn't make the team this year, the Packers are only out about $130K. He was brought in to insure they had enough bodies to move forward and protect the fact they have two rookies taking the field or at least gracing the sidelines most of the time as they go through their learning curve.

When you think about it, Banks might be an excellent decision on the part of the brain trust. He's game ready, and from what I'm gathering, still getting better at the position. Those are positives in my book.

Very thoughtful comments on the "value" of a FA. And I agree. The NFL is quite a jump for even the best players from college. It's faster, the guys are stronger, the playbook complex. So acquiring a FA means not having to pay for years of lost production, as you point out.

I'm still not happy that TT didn't make greater use of FA. In fairness, he did acquire Woodson. Other than that, Ted just seemed unwilling to pay for experience. That may have cost the Packers another SB - during Rodgers's time in GB.

 

[Heyjoe4]

What I will say is that Gute has found a way to bring the Packers through a difficult series of years where the Packers have seen a huge amount of cap space no longer being with the team. I'm not saying he didn't help to create the problem, but he has stocked the shelves well enough that the wheels haven't come off the bus and we haven't seen a 6 win season or worse. That's rarely the case for teams that create cap problems like the Packers did. They usually fall for years as they try to rebuild and rid themselves of the dead cap.

Good drafting or bad drafting, I think you need to look at the record as we've navigated through this period of time and quite honestly, it's pretty impressive.

As for the question of players taken in the early rounds, there have been first round picks that have contributed significantly to the team since his arrival. They may not be names that ring out as the finest and best of a draft but when you draft outside the top 20 year after year, you look for players who have a bright future in the league because they can't miss caliber players are usually already gone.

Under Brian Gutekunst's leadership as Packers GM, the team has made the following first-round draft picks: 2018: Jaire Alexander (No. 18), 2019: Rashan Gary (No. 12) and Darnell Savage (No. 21), 2020: Jordan Love (No. 26), 2021: Eric Stokes (No. 29), 2022: Quay Walker (No. 22) and Devonte Wyatt (No. 27), 2023: Lukas Van Ness (No. 13), and 2024: Jordan Morgan (No. 25).

You can always look at a player or two that's drafted after them who are much better and wonder why they didn't take them but that's not considering the need the team had at the time the pick was made. Grading a draft simply by asking if the player was better than everyone drafted after them isn't realistic. Teams fill needs if they're smart to stay competitive. The stats junkies rarely see that. All they see is numbers that are meaningless.

Solid teams win even when they have off years because they plan for unexpected events. Even grabbing Malik Willis in a trade was genius on the part of Gute. They gave up a 7th round pick which would have been one of the last 6 or 7 players taken in the entire draft. To me, the Packers could claim that Willis was a 7th round pick, added for depth but nobody is talking about that because nobody sees that as a stat. Fact is, it is a stat because it was a genius move. Willis pulled the Packers out of a potential disaster when Love went down with an injury, and now his stock is higher than it's ever been, and if they do decide to trade him, they could get a much better pick than a 7th and that is just how good Gute has done with the draft.

Maybe I see the game differently than a lot of people. I see it from a perspective that it takes 11 guys on the field for every play, and you can't afford 5 super stars out there and 6 clowns with floppy shoes. No matter how good those stars are, the clowns are going to cause them to be neutralized because of their ineptness. Anyhow, I'm a team builder, not a star chaser.

Good points, and thanks for the recap of Gluten's first round choices. I haven't seen them all in one place like this. It's a decent track record, especially if Love can get close to playing as well as Rodgers and Favre. The only real "busts" are Stokes and Savage, and even they played pretty well early I their careers. I recall Stokes had a very good rookie season.

And while it isn't really captured anywhere or in any specific stats, Gluten has done a terrific job at cap management while fielding competitive/winning teams during a few years of cap hell (mostly caused by Rodgers's last deal, Bakhtiari, a few others).

As far as cap management, New Orleans is a good example of a bad example. It will take them many years to recover from a lot of bad decisions. Anyway, Gluten is a very good GM and he balances winning now with providing for the future. Not easy.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Okay, sure, last year was just an off year for a very good player. Did you happen to read about his value added from early round picks? Cause Gary is part of that 6th worst ranking. Btw, I’m not trying to claim that Gute is the sixth worst in the early rounds of the draft (i don’t think that value measure is accurate enough for that) but it does show he’s certainly below average.

I wouldn't rate Gluten as below average among the NFL GMs. That's my subjective view of what he's done.

I am upset when Gluten uses 1st round picks as projects, and that was/is true for Gary. He was a solid DE at Michigan but didn't put up high sack/pressure numbers. It took hime at least two years to become an impact player in GB. Wyatt, Walker, and VanNess all fall under the "project" label imo. They're still with the team and they are, for the most part, above average at their positions. But considering all the first round picks for defense, the results have been mixed.

Gluten decided to stand pat, for the most part, with the D. He did add Hobbs to shore up a weak CB group. He mostly left the DTs/DLs as is, adding two late round picks. I think the hiring of Covington will pay big dividends.

 

[Heyjoe4]

You lost me here? In a totally unbiased of NFL peers (these were not Packer fans) he was rated the #80 best NFL player in 2024. Although his 2024 Probowl season reflected his change to a new scheme. He led the team in Sacks (7.5/8.0) QB hits (15) and tied his career high 47 tackles, but hit a career high 9 TFL’s. He also had 8 QB knockdowns, 1 FF/FR and only 1 missed tackle across 639 Defensive snaps, which is near perfection.

PFF graded Gary 83% tile of the Edge class. Most impressive was his 75.3% Run grade in a brand new 4-3 scheme.
He did not rank below 50% tile in ANY of the 9 separate key categories used to judge Edge players.

ProBowl

Good points. Gary is a good player, certainly in the top third in the NFL at his position (totally subjective on my part). He seemed a bit off last season. Then again, QBs are getting bigger and faster, and DEs are forced to play contain. That will affect sack/pressure numbers, it's just hard/impossible to quantify.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

What I will say is that Gute has found a way to bring the Packers through a difficult series of years where the Packers have seen a huge amount of cap space no longer being with the team. I'm not saying he didn't help to create the problem, but he has stocked the shelves well enough that the wheels haven't come off the bus and we haven't seen a 6 win season or worse. That's rarely the case for teams that create cap problems like the Packers did. They usually fall for years as they try to rebuild and rid themselves of the dead cap.

Good drafting or bad drafting, I think you need to look at the record as we've navigated through this period of time and quite honestly, it's pretty impressive.

As for the question of players taken in the early rounds, there have been first round picks that have contributed significantly to the team since his arrival. They may not be names that ring out as the finest and best of a draft but when you draft outside the top 20 year after year, you look for players who have a bright future in the league because they can't miss caliber players are usually already gone.

Under Brian Gutekunst's leadership as Packers GM, the team has made the following first-round draft picks: 2018: Jaire Alexander (No. 18), 2019: Rashan Gary (No. 12) and Darnell Savage (No. 21), 2020: Jordan Love (No. 26), 2021: Eric Stokes (No. 29), 2022: Quay Walker (No. 22) and Devonte Wyatt (No. 27), 2023: Lukas Van Ness (No. 13), and 2024: Jordan Morgan (No. 25).

You can always look at a player or two that's drafted after them who are much better and wonder why they didn't take them but that's not considering the need the team had at the time the pick was made. Grading a draft simply by asking if the player was better than everyone drafted after them isn't realistic. Teams fill needs if they're smart to stay competitive. The stats junkies rarely see that. All they see is numbers that are meaningless.

Solid teams win even when they have off years because they plan for unexpected events. Even grabbing Malik Willis in a trade was genius on the part of Gute. They gave up a 7th round pick which would have been one of the last 6 or 7 players taken in the entire draft. To me, the Packers could claim that Willis was a 7th round pick, added for depth but nobody is talking about that because nobody sees that as a stat. Fact is, it is a stat because it was a genius move. Willis pulled the Packers out of a potential disaster when Love went down with an injury, and now his stock is higher than it's ever been, and if they do decide to trade him, they could get a much better pick than a 7th and that is just how good Gute has done with the draft.

Maybe I see the game differently than a lot of people. I see it from a perspective that it takes 11 guys on the field for every play, and you can't afford 5 super stars out there and 6 clowns with floppy shoes. No matter how good those stars are, the clowns are going to cause them to be neutralized because of their ineptness. Anyhow, I'm a team builder, not a star chaser.

All 11 guys on the field absolutely need to contribute but if you don't have a few guys that force the other team to alter their game plan or be cognizant of at all times, then you're chances of winning a title are REALLY low. Difference makers are basically a requirement for winning a Super Bowl.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Good points. Gary is a good player, certainly in the top third in the NFL at his position (totally subjective on my part). He seemed a bit off last season. Then again, QBs are getting bigger and faster, and DEs are forced to play contain. That will affect sack/pressure numbers, it's just hard/impossible to quantify.

Gary certainly had an off year last season but I don't think that bigger/faster QBs are forcing edge defenders to play contain. Micah Parsons, Hendrickson, Garrett, Watt, Burns, etc. have all managed to be elite pass rushers and rushing the QB is what makes an edge defender elite. Gary had a good season last year against the run but I'll take the elite pass rusher who is average against the run over the elite run defender with an average pass rush.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Gary certainly had an off year last season but I don't think that bigger/faster QBs are forcing edge defenders to play contain. Micah Parsons, Hendrickson, Garrett, Watt, Burns, etc. have all managed to be elite pass rushers and rushing the QB is what makes an edge defender elite. Gary had a good season last year against the run but I'll take the elite pass rusher who is average against the run over the elite run defender with an average pass rush.

All good points and the examples you provided show that elite Edge guys are gonna get to the QB, a lot. I would also take an elite Edge player who can get to the QB versus one who is elite at stopping the run. Ideally, get both own the same team.

 

[OldSchool101]

Okay, sure, last year was just an off year for a very good player. Did you happen to read about his value added from early round picks? Cause Gary is part of that 6th worst ranking. Btw, I’m not trying to claim that Gute is the sixth worst in the early rounds of the draft (i don’t think that value measure is accurate enough for that) but it does show he’s certainly below average.

If he’s anywhere close to that drafting grade. Then he’s the most successful unsuccessful drafter in NFL history.

Tell me that doesn’t affect a productivity grading. We draft Edge players that rarely see 25% snaps.
Are Hopper or Lloyd or Morgan in this grade? They’re Day1,Day2’s.
How many of those Day 1 or Day 2 selections would not have even existed if not for crafty trade maneuvering?
Does that list properly weight LT or QB? Love himself sat 3 seasons!! Morgan Lloyd and Hopper barely played. That’s ZERO Productivity! Was that properly accounted for? I’ll answer that for you. Absolutely positively unequivocally without even a doubt in my mind NO.

Gute is easily in the top 16 best Day1-2 GM’s as of this minute. Total package drafting he’s likely top6-10 if you took a poll of peers.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

If he’s anywhere close to that drafting grade. Then he’s the most successful unsuccessful drafter in NFL history.

Tell me that doesn’t affect a productivity grading. We draft Edge players that rarely see 25% snaps.
Are Hopper or Lloyd or Morgan in this grade? They’re Day1,Day2’s.
How many of those Day 1 or Day 2 selections would not have even existed if not for crafty trade maneuvering?
Does that list properly weight LT or QB? Love himself sat 3 seasons!! Morgan Lloyd and Hopper barely played. That’s ZERO Productivity! Was that properly accounted for? I’ll answer that for you. Absolutely positively unequivocally without even a doubt in my mind NO.

Gute is easily in the top 16 best Day1-2 GM’s as of this minute. Total package drafting he’s likely top6-10 if you took a poll of peers.

You state he's above average in the early rounds and I can only assume you're going off vibes because a real analysis of his selections in rounds 1-3 shows he's actually pretty bad. As I said though, he's REALLY good at free agency and MLF is one of the best coaches out there. Gute has stocked this team with lots of good players, but not very many difference makers.

 

[OldSchool101]

You state he's above average in the early rounds and I can only assume you're going off vibes because a real analysis of his selections in rounds 1-3 shows he's actually pretty bad. As I said though, he's REALLY good at free agency and MLF is one of the best coaches out there. Gute has stocked this team with lots of good players, but not very many difference makers.

Ranking teams that draft in the Top 5 on average against teams that draft in the bottom 5 (KC, GB, Baltimore) is a TERRIBLE way to grade a GM imo. It’s a grading system that’s skewed from go.

Then using 3 seasons to judge a GM when he wasn’t even a GM? that’s 30% of your formula that needs to be completely extracted. 30% of those drafted plated from 2015-2024 is a massive 300+ players who should not make this argument. Brian wasn’t a GM from 2015,2016,2017 why is he being graded as such??

Now if these idiots nice people assigned draft value “points” such as Draftek? Ok I kinda see that. Then those nice people toss the players who either sat or missed extensive time to injury etc? Ok I’m there.


But for sake of comparing Brian. Let’s go ahead and play this exercise. Use years he wasn’t GM. Name the teams from 2015 to 2022 who Drafted a QB in Round 1 and how many of that group (because it absolutely goes into your formula) sat their QB for 3 years (or more). There’s DOZENs of QB’s drafted In Round 1 across the league so this should be an extensive list across almost all teams that are in the production formula.
1. Jordan Love

@Sunshinepacker
Certainly that formula extracts those seasons Drafted players did not play or barely played to injury. I mean they’d have to right?

Did they grade Jordan Morgan for 1 contest? Did they grade Marshawn Lloyd because he didn’t finish 1 quarter of 1 game. Is he in this production formula?

Let’s just watch 2025 and see who has the best drafted players. We’re all pretty good at picking out the really good players without help from some random graded list that includes players who are at home injured. Id rather you guys collectively let me know as the season transpires. I trust you guys as a group more than 75% of the chopped up draft driven grades.

 

[Voyageur]

Season records with Gutekunst as the GM

2018 - 6-9-1 (He inherited a team that was cap strapped and facing an uncertain future. It's hard to blame that record on him
2019 - 13-3
2020 - 13-3
2021 - 13-4
2022 - 8-9
2023 - 9-8
2024 - 11-6

That's 73-42-1 for a .634 clip. Throw out the 6-9-1 which wasn't on him and we're talking 67-33-0. That's a .670 clip.

Over the last 30 years, this is the records

TEAM	W%	GP	W	L	T	TD	PTS	PPG	OPP PTS	OPP PPG	1DWN	3DWN%	4DWN%
1		Patriots	.649	484	314	170	0	1,378	12,117	25.0	9,323	19.3	10,056	40.7	53.1
2		Packers	.636	484	307	175	2	1,438	12,296	25.4	10,066	20.8	9,875	42.1	49.7
3		Steelers	.623	484	300	181	3	1,192	10,835	22.4	9,148	18.9	9,484	41.1	47.5
4		Chiefs	.585	484	283	201	0	1,314	11,403	23.6	10,217	21.1	9,770	39.8	52.6
5		Ravens	.574	468	268	199	1	1,158	10,673	22.8	8,899	19.0	9,060	39.0	51.2
6		Eagles	.573	484	276	205	3	1,289	11,324	23.4	10,202	21.1	9,643	39.4	53.6
7		Colts	.569	484	275	208	1	1,308	11,612	24.0	10,941	22.6	9,982	41.8	55.0
8		Broncos	.558	484	270	214	0	1,274	11,312	23.4	10,329	21.3	9,809	38.8	50.0
9		Seahawks	.557	484	269	214	1	1,263	11,090	22.9	10,201	21.1	9,309	37.6	49.0
10		Vikings	.550	484	265	217	2	1,304	11,331	23.4	10,763	22.2	9,545	40.6	51.0
11		Cowboys	.543	484	263	221	0	1,254	11,144	23.0	10,277	21.2	9,636	40.2	51.7
12		Saints	.517	484	250	234	0	1,348	11,567	23.9	11,002	22.7	9,806	41.7	50.4
13		49ers	.511	484	247	236	1	1,224	10,862	22.4	10,492	21.7	9,205	38.1	51.2
14		Bills	.507	483	245	238	0	1,165	10,417	21.6	10,289	21.3	9,098	37.8	48.4
15		Titans	.502	484	243	241	0	1,164	10,406	21.5	10,733	22.2	8,896	38.8	47.0
16		Dolphins	.498	484	241	243	0	1,121	10,061	20.8	10,386	21.5	9,000	37.3	48.8
17		Chargers	.492	484	238	246	0	1,258	11,103	22.9	10,710	22.1	9,587	40.7	51.6
18		Falcons	.487	484	235	248	1	1,190	10,738	22.2	11,176	23.1	9,555	40.7	49.7
19		Buccaneers	.477	484	231	253	0	1,135	10,085	20.8	10,216	21.1	9,043	39.0	49.6
20		Rams	.468	484	226	257	1	1,169	10,513	21.7	11,205	23.2	9,226	37.7	50.9
21		Giants	.461	484	222	260	2	1,105	9,911	20.5	10,714	22.1	9,107	36.4	45.5
22		Bengals	.455	483	218	261	4	1,173	10,280	21.3	11,106	23.0	9,273	39.0	49.0
23		Panthers	.454	484	219	264	1	1,109	10,026	20.7	10,698	22.1	8,929	37.5	47.5
24		Bears	.446	484	216	268	0	1,067	9,642	19.9	10,449	21.6	8,693	35.6	48.4
25		Texans	.437	372	162	209	1	846	7,710	20.7	8,593	23.1	7,025	37.8	51.2

I think it's safe to say that the Packers have found consistency in winning seasons even though they haven't racked up a lot of Super Bowl wins. Arguing that anyone outside of the Patriots has done a better job of consistently winning would be a foolish argument.

 

[OldSchool101]

I

Season records with Gutekunst as the GM

2018 - 6-9-1 (He inherited a team that was cap strapped and facing an uncertain future. It's hard to blame that record on him
2019 - 13-3
2020 - 13-3
2021 - 13-4
2022 - 8-9
2023 - 9-8
2024 - 11-6

That's 73-42-1 for a .634 clip. Throw out the 6-9-1 which wasn't on him and we're talking 67-33-0. That's a .670 clip.

Over the last 30 years, this is the records

TEAM	W%	GP	W	L	T	TD	PTS	PPG	OPP PTS	OPP PPG	1DWN	3DWN%	4DWN%
1		Patriots	.649	484	314	170	0	1,378	12,117	25.0	9,323	19.3	10,056	40.7	53.1
2		Packers	.636	484	307	175	2	1,438	12,296	25.4	10,066	20.8	9,875	42.1	49.7
3		Steelers	.623	484	300	181	3	1,192	10,835	22.4	9,148	18.9	9,484	41.1	47.5
4		Chiefs	.585	484	283	201	0	1,314	11,403	23.6	10,217	21.1	9,770	39.8	52.6
5		Ravens	.574	468	268	199	1	1,158	10,673	22.8	8,899	19.0	9,060	39.0	51.2
6		Eagles	.573	484	276	205	3	1,289	11,324	23.4	10,202	21.1	9,643	39.4	53.6
7		Colts	.569	484	275	208	1	1,308	11,612	24.0	10,941	22.6	9,982	41.8	55.0
8		Broncos	.558	484	270	214	0	1,274	11,312	23.4	10,329	21.3	9,809	38.8	50.0
9		Seahawks	.557	484	269	214	1	1,263	11,090	22.9	10,201	21.1	9,309	37.6	49.0
10		Vikings	.550	484	265	217	2	1,304	11,331	23.4	10,763	22.2	9,545	40.6	51.0
11		Cowboys	.543	484	263	221	0	1,254	11,144	23.0	10,277	21.2	9,636	40.2	51.7
12		Saints	.517	484	250	234	0	1,348	11,567	23.9	11,002	22.7	9,806	41.7	50.4
13		49ers	.511	484	247	236	1	1,224	10,862	22.4	10,492	21.7	9,205	38.1	51.2
14		Bills	.507	483	245	238	0	1,165	10,417	21.6	10,289	21.3	9,098	37.8	48.4
15		Titans	.502	484	243	241	0	1,164	10,406	21.5	10,733	22.2	8,896	38.8	47.0
16		Dolphins	.498	484	241	243	0	1,121	10,061	20.8	10,386	21.5	9,000	37.3	48.8
17		Chargers	.492	484	238	246	0	1,258	11,103	22.9	10,710	22.1	9,587	40.7	51.6
18		Falcons	.487	484	235	248	1	1,190	10,738	22.2	11,176	23.1	9,555	40.7	49.7
19		Buccaneers	.477	484	231	253	0	1,135	10,085	20.8	10,216	21.1	9,043	39.0	49.6
20		Rams	.468	484	226	257	1	1,169	10,513	21.7	11,205	23.2	9,226	37.7	50.9
21		Giants	.461	484	222	260	2	1,105	9,911	20.5	10,714	22.1	9,107	36.4	45.5
22		Bengals	.455	483	218	261	4	1,173	10,280	21.3	11,106	23.0	9,273	39.0	49.0
23		Panthers	.454	484	219	264	1	1,109	10,026	20.7	10,698	22.1	8,929	37.5	47.5
24		Bears	.446	484	216	268	0	1,067	9,642	19.9	10,449	21.6	8,693	35.6	48.4
25		Texans	.437	372	162	209	1	846	7,710	20.7	8,593	23.1	7,025	37.8	51.2

I think it's safe to say that the Packers have found consistency in winning seasons even though they haven't racked up a lot of Super Bowl wins. Arguing that anyone outside of the Patriots has done a better job of consistently winning would be a foolish argument.

I agree. If we are putting ourselves in position with a truly realistic opportunity to Advance to a SB I think that’s the key.



I’m also excited for 2025 more than many years. I think it’s highly likely we see several drafted players reach another higher plateau. It’s certainly not the year to imply our drafts aren’t very good or that we’re bottom feeders. I actually truly hope our opponent feel we draft poorly. I think they’ll be severely disappointed this year.

 

[Thirteen Below]

That's what I see with Cooper and Hopper as well. Plus, I think Van Ness is going to show some moves this year. He's also ready to come out of his shell.

I couldn't sleep, so I watched the video of Family Night. Van Ness just manhandled Morgan at left tackle all night long; if this had been real, he probably would have sacked Love at least twice, and one would have been a really hard hit. Morgan was just in over his head at left tackle; Van Ness was just walking him back. He looks a lot stronger than last year, and more aggressive. I thought I saw a bit of a mean streak that I don't recall noticing before.

Cooper was a monster. He looks significantly stronger and faster than last year, and obviously more sure of himself. He was just launching himself off the ball, with incredible burst. Several times, he was in the backfield before his man really had time to set himself, and he made Tom look silly on one of those damned jet sweeps where he just blew past him on the outside and stopped Golden in the backfield. He also stuffed a run over right guard by cleanly beating Jenkins, and forcing Jacobs to reverse field rather than get tackled for a loss.

He's going to have a very big sophomore season. He was just dominant out there.

Malik Heath had some circus catches, as always, and Barryn Sorrel really had some great reps. In a 1v1, 250 pound Sorrel just literally bulldozed all 335 pounds of Anthony Belton - bullrushed him, pushed him back a good 5 yards; Belton kept trying plant his feet and establish a base, but in the end just gave up and slid backwards like he was on ice. Sorrel's strength was incredible; I don't think Belton knew what hit him. He was completely overmatched on that rep. I don't see how Sorrel fails to make the final 53.

They matched up Golden with Melton on a number of reps, and Melton held his own. He went stride for stride with Golden on a go route and defended the pass. He did not look like a man who hadn't played CB since high school.

This was the defense's night, from what I saw. As good as our playmakers are on offense, the D was better. Year Two of the Hafley Era looks like it's going to be exciting.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Season records with Gutekunst as the GM

2018 - 6-9-1 (He inherited a team that was cap strapped and facing an uncertain future. It's hard to blame that record on him
2019 - 13-3
2020 - 13-3
2021 - 13-4
2022 - 8-9
2023 - 9-8
2024 - 11-6

That's 73-42-1 for a .634 clip. Throw out the 6-9-1 which wasn't on him and we're talking 67-33-0. That's a .670 clip.

Over the last 30 years, this is the records

TEAM	W%	GP	W	L	T	TD	PTS	PPG	OPP PTS	OPP PPG	1DWN	3DWN%	4DWN%
1		Patriots	.649	484	314	170	0	1,378	12,117	25.0	9,323	19.3	10,056	40.7	53.1
2		Packers	.636	484	307	175	2	1,438	12,296	25.4	10,066	20.8	9,875	42.1	49.7
3		Steelers	.623	484	300	181	3	1,192	10,835	22.4	9,148	18.9	9,484	41.1	47.5
4		Chiefs	.585	484	283	201	0	1,314	11,403	23.6	10,217	21.1	9,770	39.8	52.6
5		Ravens	.574	468	268	199	1	1,158	10,673	22.8	8,899	19.0	9,060	39.0	51.2
6		Eagles	.573	484	276	205	3	1,289	11,324	23.4	10,202	21.1	9,643	39.4	53.6
7		Colts	.569	484	275	208	1	1,308	11,612	24.0	10,941	22.6	9,982	41.8	55.0
8		Broncos	.558	484	270	214	0	1,274	11,312	23.4	10,329	21.3	9,809	38.8	50.0
9		Seahawks	.557	484	269	214	1	1,263	11,090	22.9	10,201	21.1	9,309	37.6	49.0
10		Vikings	.550	484	265	217	2	1,304	11,331	23.4	10,763	22.2	9,545	40.6	51.0
11		Cowboys	.543	484	263	221	0	1,254	11,144	23.0	10,277	21.2	9,636	40.2	51.7
12		Saints	.517	484	250	234	0	1,348	11,567	23.9	11,002	22.7	9,806	41.7	50.4
13		49ers	.511	484	247	236	1	1,224	10,862	22.4	10,492	21.7	9,205	38.1	51.2
14		Bills	.507	483	245	238	0	1,165	10,417	21.6	10,289	21.3	9,098	37.8	48.4
15		Titans	.502	484	243	241	0	1,164	10,406	21.5	10,733	22.2	8,896	38.8	47.0
16		Dolphins	.498	484	241	243	0	1,121	10,061	20.8	10,386	21.5	9,000	37.3	48.8
17		Chargers	.492	484	238	246	0	1,258	11,103	22.9	10,710	22.1	9,587	40.7	51.6
18		Falcons	.487	484	235	248	1	1,190	10,738	22.2	11,176	23.1	9,555	40.7	49.7
19		Buccaneers	.477	484	231	253	0	1,135	10,085	20.8	10,216	21.1	9,043	39.0	49.6
20		Rams	.468	484	226	257	1	1,169	10,513	21.7	11,205	23.2	9,226	37.7	50.9
21		Giants	.461	484	222	260	2	1,105	9,911	20.5	10,714	22.1	9,107	36.4	45.5
22		Bengals	.455	483	218	261	4	1,173	10,280	21.3	11,106	23.0	9,273	39.0	49.0
23		Panthers	.454	484	219	264	1	1,109	10,026	20.7	10,698	22.1	8,929	37.5	47.5
24		Bears	.446	484	216	268	0	1,067	9,642	19.9	10,449	21.6	8,693	35.6	48.4
25		Texans	.437	372	162	209	1	846	7,710	20.7	8,593	23.1	7,025	37.8	51.2

I think it's safe to say that the Packers have found consistency in winning seasons even though they haven't racked up a lot of Super Bowl wins. Arguing that anyone outside of the Patriots has done a better job of consistently winning would be a foolish argument.

Thanks for this chart V. Very interesting. (I can't quite follow the column headers, but assume the "W" column is win %.)

Yeah what happened with the Patriots and all the SBs may never happen again. Surely Bellichik and Brady payed key roles, but it's still the team that wins. The Pats just made excellent personnel choices, and had arguably the greatest QB to ever play in the NFL. Interesting that the Packers are so close in total win % over the last 30 years.

 

[Voyageur]

Thanks for this chart 13. Very interesting. (I can't quite follow the column headers, but assume the "W" column is win %.)

Yeah what happened with the Patriots and all the SBs may never happen again. Surely Bellichik and Brady payed key roles, but it's still the team that wins. The Pats just made excellent personnel choices, and had arguably the greatest QB to ever play in the NFL. Interesting that the Packers are so close in total win % over the last 30 years.

It wouldn't let me post the entire chart. Too many logo pics. So, I just pulled out the logo pics and it shifted everything over from the heading. But it still showed the stats over this period of time, so it was kind of self-explanatory once you realize it's moved columns. I could have done it better though. Sorry.

 

[OldSchool101]

Good Morning.
It’s a great reflection of what’s truly important. The Bigger Picture.

The one thing that Veterans bring is more immediate help. What I’ve noticed is we generally trade players
with signs of trouble. Preston Smith was traded when he wasn’t deemed a good fit in our 4-3. Rasul was traded when at that juncture, The Packers looked be in a hole and still in a mini-rebuild mode.

• Randall Cobb: The Packers traded a sixth-round pick to bring Randall Cobb back to Green Bay in 2021

*imo This was an out of character trade to appease Aaron Rodgers with tensions rising after drafting his successor.

• Rasul Douglas: Acquired via trade during the 2021 season, Douglas emerged as a key contributor. In 2024, the Packers later traded Douglas and a 2024 fifth-round pick to the Buffalo Bills for a 2024 third-round pick.

I listed some other acquisitions by our current GM. I think we start to see that Brian is not immune to adding players, but he’ll most often scrape a player at cutdowns, waivers etc. His most regular move is at Special Teams or bottom of the Roster spots. When he does rarely go get a Starter in season? it’s most often because of injury or a substantial need arises.

• Keisean Nixon: Signed as a free agent during the 2022 season, Nixon became a first-team All-Pro kick returner.
• Whitney Mercilus: Signed as a free agent during the 2021 season.
• Eric Wilson: Signed off the Saints practice squad in Week 5 of the 2022 season, Wilson made a significant impact on special teams.
• Justin Hollins: Claimed off waivers from the Rams in November 2022, Hollins provided depth at outside linebacker.

 

[Heyjoe4]

It wouldn't let me post the entire chart. Too many logo pics. So, I just pulled out the logo pics and it shifted everything over from the heading. But it still showed the stats over this period of time, so it was kind of self-explanatory once you realize it's moved columns. I could have done it better though. Sorry.

No need to apologize, and I apologize for thinking you were 13..... I corrected my post. Old age man, it messes wit ya.

Yeah the nature of the numbers was easy to see and I focused on win %, the most important stat on the sheet. Pretty amazing that this little town in "fly-over" territory has had such an amazing 100-year plus run. We talk a lot about how good the last 30 years have been, right up to today. All the years before that were, on the whole, very good. The Packers are to football what the Yankees are to baseball.

Nice work V, thanks.

 

[OldSchool101]

I say this to offer that it’s not impossible and I’m not here to crush anyone’s hopes for a High Profile trade. I think it’s always a tantalizing concept. However it would be highly out of character for us to go out and trade for a high profile player. The only outlier here is we let Jaire Alexander walk. So there could be some intentional focus at CB. We see evidence (no matter how small) of uneasiness at CB with Ballentine being brought back.

We have a moderate amount of Cap flexibility. I think it would be prudent to let the season unfold some. IF there is a concern at DL, CB etc? Then pull the trigger before Trade Deadline. There will likely be players at nearly every position that come up for sale when a team gets in a hole with that tough 1-5 start.