Packers Trade Candidates

[Voyageur]

Just curious, so discussions based on what WR makes the most sense means you're rolling the bus over a guy? I love Doubs, everyone here knows it and I banged his drum even in the pre-draft process...but he does make the most sense from a "likely to trade vs desired to be traded for" type a guy in the WR room. Had Wicks had a better year last year I'd actually say Wicks because of extra year of control.

Right now, Doubs is considered damaged goods because of concussions and the suspension. What would you get for him? A provisional 5th round pick? That's giving him away to be honest. Most teams throw 5th to 7th round picks around as a cheap bargaining chip in trades, and often with the caveat that unless the guy does great, the pick round goes down, and you pretty much got nothing for him. Is that an acceptable risk when you have two untested rookies coming in, and several guys below the #3 receiver level who haven't shown they can step up and do the job at that high of a level.

Then there's the injury situations as the season progresses. Last year we had both Watson and Doubs on the bench at the same time. How did that work out for us? Not good at all. Until I'm totally confident that we have 5 receivers who are above Doubs in skill sets, and can offer the chain moving capability of Doubs, there is absolutely no way I would consider trading him or cutting him.

It's like the situation with Jaire Alexander. People saying that he should be dumped. But, when he's healthy, where does he fit in the structure of the team? Does he have the potential to be a solid contributor if healthy? Exactly which 4 to 5 CBs do they have when camp breaks who are better than him? Either way, the Packers would be eating a lot of contract money in dead cap with him, so hanging on to him is a good option. He'd be worth very little in trade, probably nothing. Teams would wait to see if we dumped him and be able to work a low-ball contract with him.

We all need to remember one important thing. Last year was still a growing year for Love. His major weakness was field vision. He became focused on one or two receivers on passing downs and did not see additional options on the field. It takes a deep dive into plays to see that, but this is something I'm always aware of because it's really the nuts and bolts of the difference of an elite passing game and a really good passing game. Guys like Manning and Montana had the peripheral vision and could see everyone on the field while looking at one particular spot off where the ball will be thrown. Love isn't there yet. It takes time. Doubs is the guy who was most consistently open, and Love never saw him out there because he hadn't developed that vision yet. If you're a receiver who works ******* perfecting your routes and making solid decisions after a play is busted to give your QB a target, you're going to get frustrated. Doubs did. It was obvious to me. It was also obvious to me that when Love was making it a point to see him out there, Doubs was our primary chain mover. We all saw the amazing catches Doubs had to move the chains on those 3rd catches, but for some reason, too many people have ignored that in favor of being more concerned about the 1 game suspension and the concussions.

When people say that we also have to be concerned about him ending up a free agent after the year but at the same time talk about dumping him for a late round draft pick, I don't see that logic. The question of who and who doesn't get a contract extension is a decision that can be made during the season. But not now, before we even hit training camp.

 

[tynimiller]

Right now, Doubs is considered damaged goods because of concussions and the suspension. What would you get for him? A provisional 5th round pick? That's giving him away to be honest. Most teams throw 5th to 7th round picks around as a cheap bargaining chip in trades, and often with the caveat that unless the guy does great, the pick round goes down, and you pretty much got nothing for him. Is that an acceptable risk when you have two untested rookies coming in, and several guys below the #3 receiver level who haven't shown they can step up and do the job at that high of a level.

Then there's the injury situations as the season progresses. Last year we had both Watson and Doubs on the bench at the same time. How did that work out for us? Not good at all. Until I'm totally confident that we have 5 receivers who are above Doubs in skill sets, and can offer the chain moving capability of Doubs, there is absolutely no way I would consider trading him or cutting him.

It's like the situation with Jaire Alexander. People saying that he should be dumped. But, when he's healthy, where does he fit in the structure of the team? Does he have the potential to be a solid contributor if healthy? Exactly which 4 to 5 CBs do they have when camp breaks who are better than him? Either way, the Packers would be eating a lot of contract money in dead cap with him, so hanging on to him is a good option. He'd be worth very little in trade, probably nothing. Teams would wait to see if we dumped him and be able to work a low-ball contract with him.

We all need to remember one important thing. Last year was still a growing year for Love. His major weakness was field vision. He became focused on one or two receivers on passing downs and did not see additional options on the field. It takes a deep dive into plays to see that, but this is something I'm always aware of because it's really the nuts and bolts of the difference of an elite passing game and a really good passing game. Guys like Manning and Montana had the peripheral vision and could see everyone on the field while looking at one particular spot off where the ball will be thrown. Love isn't there yet. It takes time. Doubs is the guy who was most consistently open, and Love never saw him out there because he hadn't developed that vision yet. If you're a receiver who works ******* perfecting your routes and making solid decisions after a play is busted to give your QB a target, you're going to get frustrated. Doubs did. It was obvious to me. It was also obvious to me that when Love was making it a point to see him out there, Doubs was our primary chain mover. We all saw the amazing catches Doubs had to move the chains on those 3rd catches, but for some reason, too many people have ignored that in favor of being more concerned about the 1 game suspension and the concussions.

When people say that we also have to be concerned about him ending up a free agent after the year but at the same time talk about dumping him for a late round draft pick, I don't see that logic. The question of who and who doesn't get a contract extension is a decision that can be made during the season. But not now, before we even hit training camp.

Appreciate the feedback, does help me understand your perspective more...but I'd still disagree that even after all this, the discussion of whom is the most likely trade piece in the room is throwing shade or putting the bus on someone.

I don't see Doubs as damaged goods nearly as much as apparently some do - concussions are for sure a concerning thing, however teams trust doctors and if cleared Doubs is 1000% an attractive option for a team that needs that surehanded, smart and savvy WR due to their room have no one as a clear WR2 type guy (likely due to injury in the coming months). Doubs has just simply produced from the jump and his route skills have only gotten better.

Your thought of when Watson and Doubs were out how did we fair had me curious so I checked:

Week 5 - neither one played. We beat LAR 24-19 at their house. Love was 15 for 26 and 224 yards. 2 TDs 1INT and a 95.7 Rating. Reed had 78 yards receiving while Kraft had 88

That was it for 2024.

I personally see the Jaire thing same as you - but I also in zero way see that trade discussion even in the same realm as Doubs due to the money thing.

As for the "why trade now" conversations. I think many fail to realize just how tough it is to continually build and transition a roster. We have a TON of expiring contracts...normal....we have a TON of expiring contracts for true starters and contributors - not normal. This is by far the biggest grouping of rookie contracts expiring for a class that are not just contributors but starters I can remember for a long time. Now with Wyatt getting that fifth year option picked up, that answered one question....but there is still a ton more. The advantage to trading a guy now that you don't envision (and they know more than we do of course) signing after the season for whatever reason - a 5th rounder in 2026 say, is guaranteed commodity that isn't going away. You don't trade him, they sign elsewhere they may or may not get you a pick back for compensatory reasons...but not in 2026, but in 2027...two years from now not one.

I think everyone believes unless the offer is very sweet, Gute isn't trading anyone right this moment, but once TC starts and rosters are wittling down and potential injuries hit other teams guys like Doubs, Enagbare, Walker, Rhyan and Willis all have true value in the right scenario to be traded depending on the organizations' belief of what we have elsewhere in the room OR the simple logic of get what we can guarantee now or arguably get nothing back potentially.

 

[Heyjoe4]

My argument to a GM that said that is this. You called me I didn’t call you, so there’s obviously a need.
While Walker isn’t an All Pro, he IS a plug n play, starting level LT in the NFL. Btw one who was part of a Top 8 scoring Offense. If you think you can wait another season, be prepared to take heat from your fan base first, then your Owner next..
A future Day 1 is a complete gamble, I could easily end up with Darnell Savage 2.0 or CB Damarius Randall or any number of players who never finished their Rookie contract or worse. Plus I wait a full year just to experience that? Losing the equivalent of a round in value due to lost time value.
BTW just so you know Joe I don’t want to part from any current players because I believe we are talented enough to make it to a SB. We’ve got some tough competition but at those above terms those contract year players would be ones we look hard at. The only guys really untouchable are Tom and possibly Devonte because Kenny is winding down soon.

The way I read your comment was that Walker would fetch a first-round pick in a trade. Is that correct?

 

[OldSchool101]

The way I read your comment was that Walker would fetch a first-round pick in a trade. Is that correct?

No. I never said I thought Walker was worth a Day1 pick. Im assuming you meant our LT not LB? Parting with our starting LT for me is not smart right now.
These are similar to your home. “make me move prices”

If I own a 400K home. Would i take 430K to pack up my belongings?? Likely not.

Would i take $500K?? Might still be debatable right? How about if I was offered 650K?? For me that’s an area I might swallow my pride and scoop the $$$. Then buy a home down the street or in the same neighborhood. I might upgrade to a $550K home and bank the $100K

Does all that mean i think my current home is worth 650K? Absolutely not. But if you came to me asking if $500K works? you might have $59Mil in the bank and love my home. $650K is totally doable for your kid going to university 6 blocks from where I reside. How do I know what your needs are maybe this home is a perfect fit and your daughter cried tears of joy doing a walk around.


it’s someone completely overpaying.. I basically said from the start. At least you didn’t make false assumptions you were courteous and asked. Thank you

 

[Heyjoe4]

No. I never said I thought Walker was worth a Day1 pick. Im assuming you meant our LT not LB? Parting with our starting LT for me is not smart right now.
These are similar to your home. “make me move prices”

If I own a 400K home. Would i take 430K to pack up my belongings?? Likely not.

Would i take $500K?? Might still be debatable right? How about if I was offered 650K?? For me that’s an area I might swallow my pride and scoop the $$$. Then buy a home down the street or in the same neighborhood. I might upgrade to a $550K home and bank the $100K

Does all that mean i think my current home is worth 650K? Absolutely not. But if you came to me asking if $500K works? you might have $59Mil in the bank and love my home. $650K is totally doable for your kid going to university 6 blocks from where I reside. How do I know what your needs are maybe this home is a perfect fit and your daughter cried tears of joy doing a walk around.


it’s someone completely overpaying.. I basically said from the start. At least you didn’t make false assumptions you were courteous and asked. Thank you

Ok, thanks for clarifying OS. And no, I was looking at LB and Walker specifically based on your post #143, taking some of it here:

"Here’s my trade me now price where it’s realistic but costly for a trade partner...

Quay Walker
A 2026, Day 1 straight up."

I read that to mean you thought Walker was worth a first-round 2026 pick, right now. You did qualify it a bit by saying it would be costly for a trade partner. I just don't know how else to read it, or maybe I am just reading it wrong.

There has been a lot of speculation about who the Packers might trade before the season and what a fair trade would look like. The name that seems to come up most often is Doubs. I think Doubs had a lot of value, I'm just not sure another GM pondering a trade for him would see it the same way. He is certainly a gifted receiver, but questions remain about his durability (concussions), and high-maintenance scenario from last season. Out of the two, concussions present the largest concern.

And trade discussions make most sense for the WR group, where there are more candidates than roster positions. Could one of them be traded before the season starts? Well sure that could and probably will happen.

And there's also been discussion about the soon-to-be-former rookies, like Doubs, Watson, Reed - and extending deals. IMO, Gluten has to roll the dice here, and if one of these guys has a breakout year, he'll have to be paid. Gluten took out some insurance against that by drafting WRs in rounds 1 and 3.

 

[OldSchool101]

Ok, thanks for clarifying OS. And no, I was looking at LB and Walker specifically based on your post #143, taking some of it here:

"Here’s my trade me now price where it’s realistic but costly for a trade partner...

Quay Walker
A 2026, Day 1 straight up."

I read that to mean you thought Walker was worth a first-round 2026 pick, right now. You did qualify it a bit by saying it would be costly for a trade partner. I just don't know how else to read it, or maybe I am just reading it wrong.

There has been a lot of speculation about who the Packers might trade before the season and what a fair trade would look like. The name that seems to come up most often is Doubs. I think Doubs had a lot of value, I'm just not sure another GM pondering a trade for him would see it the same way. He is certainly a gifted receiver, but questions remain about his durability (concussions), and high-maintenance scenario from last season. Out of the two, concussions present the largest concern.

And trade discussions make most sense for the WR group, where there are more candidates than roster positions. Could one of them be traded before the season starts? Well sure that could and probably will happen.

And there's also been discussion about the soon-to-be-former rookies, like Doubs, Watson, Reed - and extending deals. IMO, Gluten has to roll the dice here, and if one of these guys has a breakout year, he'll have to be paid. Gluten took out some insurance against that by drafting WRs in rounds 1 and 3.

If we could do a player for player trade that would be preferable. In a win now trade doubs for another position with a year or two left on their Rookie deal. Yet someone who is already a starter. My vote would be trade Doubs for
a CB, a formidable TE or iDL.

 

[Heyjoe4]

If we could do a player for player trade that would be preferable. In a win now trade doubs for another position with a year or two left on their Rookie deal. Yet someone who is already a starter. My vote would be trade Doubs for
a CB, a formidable TE or iDL.

I like Doubs a lot and have from the start. IMO, he has too many unknowns to make him a valuable trade asset right now. Concussions and the suspension last year, especially the concussions, are a big deal for him, personally and professionally.

Anyway, I'm of the opinion that Doubs is just too good to think of trading, even if a trade partner was found. I hope he has a career year. Yeah that means he'll get paid next year. That's a risk worth taking.

 

[OldSchool101]

I like Doubs a lot and have from the start. IMO, he has too many unknowns to make him a valuable trade asset right now. Concussions and the suspension last year, especially the concussions, are a big deal for him, personally and professionally.

Anyway, I'm of the opinion that Doubs is just too good to think of trading, even if a trade partner was found. I hope he has a career year. Yeah that means he'll get paid next year. That's a risk worth taking.

It’s far more likely he stays, I’d agree with that 100%. Trading away players before the season is not common in GB. Right off the bat we’d be battling against our normal MO.
My thoughts are I generally don’t like trades that involve some future capital in a Win Now, unless as I said it’s stupid not to.
I think the Rasul trade was a lesson learned. It’s been 2 years and we still have no value on return. That’s why my preference is player for player whereas both teams involved get immediate benefit today.

 

[tynimiller]

I had an connection of mine say one time, "there is immense value in known return vs an unknown return". He was saying that in reply to a text I shot him a few years back about a guy being traded for what I thought was very little.

This is the same guy that provided insight on teams decisions to trade away guys is almost ALWAYS about the future and not the present, you never trade a guy away - or very rarely do so to make your current roster better, it's about the following year or even the roster structure incoming in the future. Now a team can for sure become better by younger guys or newly acquired guys taking over that now vacant roster position and shining....be like if we saw Enagbare traded and Sorrell comes in and puts up half dozen sacks as a rookie and plays well by seasons' end is seeing half the game in snaps...but that isn't often the motivation behind them.

It is coping with future salary decisions/costs, known decisions of the player's future and getting that known return a year earlier than waiting for a potential return in two years through compensatory picks.

Fact is there is a world where out of all the impending FAs (Quay, Watson, Doubs, Tom, Walker, Rhyan, Enagbare) we only sign maybe Tom....I think we do something with at least one other but in truth there is a world where that could potentially happen. That is a TON of starting experience gone....and you may not get anything in return for their loss depending on what contracts they get vs what contracts you bring in during UFA....and those picks you might get don't come till 2027 anyways....

That is why you'll see GMs from time to time move a guy like Enagbare and a 7th for another teams' 5th in the very next draft. Gives the team a quicker shot to replace, and a guaranteed return rather than wait and maybe not get anything.


Now of course the risk, and in truth a massive risk potentially (IF injuries hit) is doing this and sure you're going to get something in return but your immediate team ends up needing them far more than you envisioned...either injuries or others fail to step up make the trade in hindsight look like a mistake.

I still believe pretty confidential we are going to deal one of them at some point before the trade deadline...it could be a rather small return but I do believe it is a perfect storm of vastly too many likely leaving and Gute needing picks to reload next year to keep this ship plowing ahead like it is.

 

[Heyjoe4]

It’s far more likely he stays, I’d agree with that 100%. Trading away players before the season is not common in GB. Right off the bat we’d be battling against our normal MO.
My thoughts are I generally don’t like trades that involve some future capital in a Win Now, unless as I said it’s stupid not to.
I think the Rasul trade was a lesson learned. It’s been 2 years and we still have no value on return. That’s why my preference is player for player whereas both teams involved get immediate benefit today.

I'm with you on this, especially trading FOR a player and giving up draft capital. That works sometimes - the Rams won a SB after giving up a ton of draft capital to the Lions for Stafford. When the Rams tanked after their SB season, those picks the Lions got became much more valuable and put them in the SB hunt (well, except for that inconvenient game against the Commanders.....).

And I don't recall the last time the Packers traded a big-name player over the summer. I'm sure it has happened, I just don't recall.

 

[Curly Calhoun]

I'm with you on this, especially trading FOR a player and giving up draft capital. That works sometimes - the Rams won a SB after giving up a ton of draft capital to the Lions for Stafford. When the Rams tanked after their SB season, those picks the Lions got became much more valuable and put them in the SB hunt (well, except for that inconvenient game against the Commanders.....).

And I don't recall the last time the Packers traded a big-name player over the summer. I'm sure it has happened, I just don't recall.

 

[Curly Calhoun]

I'm not sure if this qualifies, but:

In 2000, (Ahman) Green was traded along with a fifth round draft pick to the Green Bay Packers for Fred Vinson and a sixth round pick.

Ahman Green - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

A mere 25 years ago.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I'm not sure if this qualifies, but:

In 2000, (Ahman) Green was traded along with a fifth round draft pick to the Green Bay Packers for Fred Vinson and a sixth round pick.

Ahman Green - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

A mere 25 years ago.

I would say that qualifies as a huge win for GB, although at the time, it was probably seen as a fair trade.