Packers sign Devin Funchess

[Sunshinepacker]

You're right that last season's top rookie receivers (I included Metcalf in the list as well) were pretty good compared to other years.

The top four in receiving yards rank fifth in combined receptions, second in yards and third in touchdowns compared to their pals since 2008.

They weren't anywhere close to the best class of 2014 though.

First, looking back at that 2014 class is kind of amazing. THREE 1,000 yard rookies (and a fourth that only missed by 18 yards)!

My concern with relying on a rookie to make a substantial impact (and by "substantial" let's say 55 receptions for 650+ yards) is that it's really tough to get that kind of production reliably and receiver is a real weakness on the current roster. Last year's offense was underwhelming and really lacked anything resembling a #2 receiving threat on offense.

The chance for the team to get a decent free agent receiver has passed which is why I'm so hopeful they will draft a receiver in the first round. A physically elite WR is the kind of guy that the Packers could really use to open up the offense and drafting a guy like that after round 1 means that you're drafting a project. There should be a couple of guys at the bottom third of round 1 that could provide an impact in their rookie seasons AND would add the element of deep speed that this offense is currently missing.

 

[tynimiller]

Observations Offensively for comparison last 5 years because I was curious as well to how 19' compared. To stress pure stats such as these don't illustrate truly how efficient or well the offense did, merely was curious and figured I'd share.

2019 Season
5528 Total Offensive Yards
3733 Passing
1795 Rushing

2018 Season
5905 Total Offensive Yards
4238 Passing
1667 Rushing

2017 Season
4891 Total Offensive Yards
3167 Passing
1724 Rushing

2016 Season
5900 Total Offensive Yards
4199 Passing
1701 Rushing

2015 Season
5353 Total Offensive Yards
3503 Passing
1850 Rushing

 

[HardRightEdge]

Well, with an extremely weak receiving corps entering this offseason it was pretty obvious the Packers will have to rely on a rookie to make an immediate impact.

While I would prefer to have three bona fide veterans atop the depth chart as well that was completely unrealistic to expect entering next season.

If the rookie doesn't perform up to expectations the passing game will most likely struggle in 2020 again. It's that easy.



With Funchess all but guaranteed to make the roster he will at least earn $2.25 million.



A quarterback will first move through his progressions to find an open receiver. It's close to impossible for him to find one if the WR isn't in the correct spot at that point.

That changes once the QB has to scramble to throw the ball but that shouldn't be the case on a regular basis.



You're right that last season's top rookie receivers (I included Metcalf in the list as well) were pretty good compared to other years.

The top four in receiving yards rank fifth in combined receptions, second in yards and third in touchdowns compared to their pals since 2008.

They weren't anywhere close to the best class of 2014 though.



True, although I wouldn't mind the Packers drafting a receiver solely excelling in the slot.

 

[gopkrs]

It's a general impression of where the primary opportunity lies relative to the route calls, defensive positioning and how the receiver attacks the route. There's a progression in the playbook. There's an adjustment at the line. Then an adjustment post snap if he doesn't like the release of the first guy and how it is defensed.

Like I said, every play is fluid. Depending a lot on the DB, the receiver will go where he has to in order to be open...or should.

Nobody can be any good if he's not looking where he plans to throw, right?

Yes, but he is often throwing it to where the receiver is going and not to a spot. The QB can anticipate where the w/o will be. Yes, that is backyard football.

It doesn't matter much if the guy has separation but not in the right way. There's no time to be hunting for the guy.

Just don't agree with this. If he sees him, he sees him. QBs are hunting down receivers all the time after they go through progressions.

Rodgers doesn't have trust issues with Adams because Adams is fine route runner, makes the right reads and executes the route accordingly as that "2nd. QB on the field" good route runners as said to be. Rodgers is comfortable throwing him open because he has trust that he'll come out of the break the way he expects.

Yes, all that is true. But Adams also gets open. Not just where he is expected to be.

Actually, you sound like McCarthy. He just did not allow his receivers flexibility. Except I think you try and make it more complicated. Basically, why would I, as a receiver, run the route I am supposed to, if it has no chance of being open? Unless, I will be interfering with another receiver's route.

 

[Mondio]

Actually, you sound like McCarthy. He just did not allow his receivers flexibility. Except I think you try and make it more complicated. Basically, why would I, as a receiver, run the route I am supposed to, if it has no chance of being open? Unless, I will be interfering with another receiver's route.

Because YOU are expected to function within the offense. Those in the position to tell you what your role is have been trying to teach you how to play your position because in an offense there is more to every single play than YOUR success or failure of a route. Just like there is more to calling a game plan than having success on every play. Sometimes the real success comes 20 plays later. Sometimes your route, despite it's chances of being open are what make the rest possible and it's not YOUR job to decide on the fly.

Even within the MM system where WR's had to make a lot of reads on the fly, it was still within the system they were being taught. They weren't just going off script, of course until it was time to go off script and that hasn't changed. And that also isn't what HRE was getting at when talking about "hunting for receivers". That comes when the reads are over.

 

[bigbubbatd]

I feel like some people here have not played qb. It takes time to read through progressions and if a wr isnt where he is supposed to be during a progression that disrupts everything. Sure when a play breaks down there is flexibility but even then most teams have a design for where receivers go. Backyard football rarely works outside the backyard. In backyard football you can hold the ball for 10 seconds until someone gets open. In the NFL people complain if Rodgers holds the ball for longer than 3 seconds.

 

[gopkrs]

Because YOU are expected to function within the offense. Those in the position to tell you what your role is have been trying to teach you how to play your position because in an offense there is more to every single play than YOUR success or failure of a route. Just like there is more to calling a game plan than having success on every play. Sometimes the real success comes 20 plays later. Sometimes your route, despite it's chances of being open are what make the rest possible and it's not YOUR job to decide on the fly.

Even within the MM system where WR's had to make a lot of reads on the fly, it was still within the system they were being taught. They weren't just going off script, of course until it was time to go off script and that hasn't changed. And that also isn't what HRE was getting at when talking about "hunting for receivers". That comes when the reads are over.

The problem being that Mccarthy's play calling got very sterile and did not work anymore. I'm not saying it is a free for all out there. I am only saying that you should know where your teammates are running their routes so that you don't interfere with them but if you are not open; then continuing to run the pattern is not productive.

 

[gopkrs]

I feel like some people here have not played qb. It takes time to read through progressions and if a wr isnt where he is supposed to be during a progression that disrupts everything. Sure when a play breaks down there is flexibility but even then most teams have a design for where receivers go. Backyard football rarely works outside the backyard. In backyard football you can hold the ball for 10 seconds until someone gets open. In the NFL people complain if Rodgers holds the ball for longer than 3 seconds.

He does not throw the ball until he sees the receiver is open. So even if it is a spot to throw to; he has to see that the ball will not be intercepted. That spot is just where the receiver and QB have agreed that the receiver is going for. But you still have to throw to the receiver if you want a completion. And there is not so much time that the receiver, even though he has changed his route because he could not get open, would not be seen by the QB. I think you should throw to the receiver more than to the spot.

 

[Mondio]

The problem being that Mccarthy's play calling got very sterile and did not work anymore. I'm not saying it is a free for all out there. I am only saying that you should know where your teammates are running their routes so that you don't interfere with them but if you are not open; then continuing to run the pattern is not productive.

sometimes it is, because it clears an area or it sets up a play latter. and it's not so much getting into a route and seeing you're not going to be open, it's more along the lines of, is he going 7 yards and breaking in this time or 5 or 9. Is he going to break in or out this time. He's supposed to go in, but if he doesn't, it will be picked. It's that sort of stuff. This the NFL, it's timing and rhythm and spots are where most QB's throw the ball. If you're supposed to break a route at 5 yards and go out because the DB is off 8 yards it dictates where you throw so he can't undercut it. If he's off 10 yards and your WR goes 8 yards this time, now he has more room to close and undercut and the ball is in the air that split second longer. That's bad, that makes QB's hesitate. That makes things not look smooth or work well play in and play out.

 

[gopkrs]

I don't disagree with you Mondio. There are a lot of variables.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Yes, but he is often throwing it to where the receiver is going and not to a spot. The QB can anticipate where the w/o will be. Yes, that is backyard football.

I'm not sure what you mean since the QB is always throwing to a spot, whether after the break or at the break in throwing the guy open. There are a bunch of both in the several youtube videos that come up under a "Davante Adams route running search," including this one which is kinda humerous given the source, but also to the point:

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There are elements of playground in every route, some subtle and others less so, not just in extended play scramble drills. I don't think this is generally appreciated.

In the category of less subtle and cringe worthy, last season we saw MVS cutting short an inside slat short, I guess a zone sitdown choice, while Rodgers is leading him with the throw. Post play, we see Rodgers mouthing, "keep running". A game or two later on the same route, MVS runs through and the QB is throwing behind to the sit down spot, with the ensuing stink eye or head shaking, I cannot remember which. Not getting this right entails high INT risk. If one wants to contemplate whether there are QB errors in judgement in these throws, one might consider how these routes work out when Adams runs them--money.

In the category of "subtle", if the picture of a play in the playbook has a line that that goes to 10 yards and 90 degrees out, that's just a template. Where you break that route is dependent on CB techique, down and distance.

Another in the category of "less subtle" is where the lines in the playbook show a vertical release and then an option, stick in or stick out. The receiver has to read the defense the way the QB does.

Adams ran a 4.56 at the Combine, which is an object lesson in how route running technique negates some track speed deficiency. Richard Sherman ran a 4.56 which is an object lesson in defensive side of the same coin. The further up the quickness and technique scale, which meld together, the less critical the track speed.

 

[tynimiller]

A lot of what you describe HRE is precisely why I truly have fallen in love with Van Jefferson this draft. He is a technician with his routes and I truly bet more money on college receivers that have used their route technique to get open over pure foot speed any day. Obviously a guy like Jeudy has it as well....Laviska on horizontal ones and honestly a late rounder with great route skills is Quintez Cephus

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Just saw someone online with this mock-pick for the Packers....predicting they could wait until day 3 and round 4 to first address their needs at WR! This guys has to be a Viking or Bear fan.

Round 4

Trishton Jackson – Wide Receiver
Profile: A converted quarterback and former basketball standout, Jackson is another player still learning his position.

 

[tynimiller]

Just saw someone online with this mock-pick for the Packers....predicting they could wait until day 3 and round 4 to first address their needs at WR! This guys has to be a Viking or Bear fan.

Round 4

Trishton Jackson – Wide Receiver
Profile: A converted quarterback and former basketball standout, Jackson is another player still learning his position.

Yikes that isn't even a WR on my radar in the 4th/5th round area....

 

[HardRightEdge]

Observations Offensively for comparison last 5 years because I was curious as well to how 19' compared. To stress pure stats such as these don't illustrate truly how efficient or well the offense did, merely was curious and figured I'd share.

2019 Season
5528 Total Offensive Yards
3733 Passing
1795 Rushing

2018 Season
5905 Total Offensive Yards
4238 Passing
1667 Rushing

2017 Season
4891 Total Offensive Yards
3167 Passing
1724 Rushing

2016 Season
5900 Total Offensive Yards
4199 Passing
1701 Rushing

2015 Season
5353 Total Offensive Yards
3503 Passing
1850 Rushing

Under the heading, "Points not Yards", or more correctly "Winning not Yards", we have the following record of Packer Red Zone TD efficiency and turnovers which includes special teams but is predominantly a function of offensive ball security:

2019: 68%, 2nd. ranked / 13, 2nd. ranked
2018: 62%, 14th. ranked / 15, 2nd. ranked
2017: 62%, 4th. ranked / 25, T23 ranked [Hundley 12 INTs in 9 starts]
2016: 64%, 9tth. ranked / 17, T8th. ranked
2015: 55%, 17th. ranked / 17, T4th. ranked
2014: 57%, 11th. ranked / 13, 1st. ranked
2013: 51%, 26th. ranked / 25, T17th ranked [backups 10 INTs in 7 starts]
2012: 69%, 1st. ranked / 16, T2nd. ranked
2011: 65%, 3rd. ranked / 14, 2nd. ranked
2010: 63%, 4th. ranked / 22, T10th. ranked
2009: 57%, 7th. ranked / 16, 1st. ranked
2008: 60%, 5th. ranked / 21, T8th. ranked

13 - 3 was not exactly offensive smoke and mirrors.

 

[tynimiller]

Under the heading, "Points not Yards", or more correctly "Winning not Yards", we have the following record of Packer Red Zone TD efficiency and turnovers which includes special teams but is predominantly a function of offensive ball security:

2019: 68%, 2nd. ranked / 13, 2nd. ranked
2018: 62%, 14th. ranked / 15, 2nd. ranked
2017: 62%, 4th. ranked / 25, T23 ranked [Kizer 22 INTs]
2016: 64%, 9tth. ranked / 17, T8th. ranked
2015: 55%, 17th. ranked / 17, T4th. ranked
2014: 57%, 11th. ranked / 13, 1st. ranked
2013: 51%, 26th. ranked / 25, T17th ranked [backups 10 INTs in 7 starts]
2012: 69%, 1st. ranked / 16, T2nd. ranked
2011: 65%, 3rd. ranked / 14, 2nd. ranked
2010: 63%, 4th. ranked / 22, T10th. ranked
2009: 57%, 7th. ranked / 16, 1st. ranked
2008: 60%, 5th. ranked / 21, T8th. ranked

13 - 3 was not exactly offensive smoke and mirrors.

I'm confused...what does Kizer's 22 INTS with the Browns have to do with our 2017 season?

 

[HardRightEdge]

I'm confused...what does Kizer's 22 INTS with the Browns have to do with our 2017 season?

Thanks for pointing that out. "Duh" on my part. Correction made.

I suppose that's because in the moment Hundley and Kizer melded in my mind into a composite of "inadequate backup QB". The Hundley number was 12 INTs. The total turnover count was correct.

I hope you were not confused by the overriding picture presented.

 

[tynimiller]

Thanks for pointing that out. "Duh" on my part. Correction made.

I suppose that's because in the moment Hundley and Kizer melded in my mind into a composite of "inadequate backup QB". The Hundley number was 12 INTs. The total turnover count was correct.

I hope you were not confused by the overriding picture presented.

Oh not at all that was just a bump in a road I noticed, I got the point 100%

 

[HardRightEdge]

A lot of what you describe HRE is precisely why I truly have fallen in love with Van Jefferson this draft. He is a technician with his routes and I truly bet more money on college receivers that have used their route technique to get open over pure foot speed any day. Obviously a guy like Jeudy has it as well....Laviska on horizontal ones and honestly a late rounder with great route skills is Quintez Cephus

Well, you can't help but like V. Jefferson's tape, especially given the absence of somebody on this roster who looks like a slot route runner other than Adams. The perimeter flexibility opens up more matchup options, Jefferson inside / Adams perimeter or vice versa. He's one of my favorites in this draft, for his fit and polish.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Yikes that isn't even a WR on my radar in the 4th/5th round area....

If Gute ends up waiting until the 4th round to grab his first WR and that 4th WR is a former QB/basketball star, with only 1 year of decent college football under his belt, it tells me one of 3 things.

1. Our current WR situation was a lot better than I thought it was.
2. The draft WAS incredibly deep with quality WR's and he is picking one of them in the 5th round or later.
3. Gute is fricking looney and needs his head examined.

 

[HardRightEdge]

If Gute ends up waiting until the 4th round to grab his first WR and that 4th WR is a former QB/basketball star, with only 1 year of decent college football under his belt, it tells me one of 3 things.

1. Our current WR situation was a lot better than I thought it was.
2. The draft WAS incredibly deep with quality WR's and he is picking one of them in the 5th round or later.
3. Gute is fricking looney and needs his head examined.

4. He's channelling his inner Thompson who once fielded the best basketball team in the NFL. That might dovetail into 3.

 

[HardRightEdge]

You know, I kinda like Lazard. What he lacks in speed and quickness he is able to compensate to a degree with size, strength and competitiveness. He runs some good routes though you'll never call him an ankle breaker, too much of a long strider but without the last gear. Rodgers liked him from training camp, and more recently said something to the affect of, "he plays with a level of confidence he has no right to," probably a reference to UDFA and second year off the practice squad status.

He didn't play offense in the first 4 games, 17 snaps in week 5, no targets until week 6 when Adams went out. From then on it was less Kumurow and more Lazard. His season total offensive snap count was 43% with 35 catches, 477 yards, 3 TD. He wasn't much more than a rookie, getting his first offensive work other than one snap in 2018. There are a fair number of Day 1 and 2 picks who are not that productive as rookies as they get their feet wet.

Projecting out his stats last year over 16 games on 63% snap count you get 51 catches, 694 yards, 4 TDs.

The numbers that stand out in particular are the 67.3% catch percentage with 13.6 yards per catch, for a very good 9.2 yards per target.

OK, small sample size, possible "triumph of the uncluttered mind" factor, tape study could reveals to DBs some tells. Even if this is just as good as it gets, he's a good guy to have around as a #4 and he's not going kill you filling in for some games. And if a rookie draftee plays like many do, his year of experience might get him more snaps than one might think.

Then, there's the question of whether there is some progression in year 2. I would not totally discount this guy as some UDFA place holder.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

You know, I kinda like Lazard.

I remember watching the film of Lazard and hoping we drafted him. Then after the 2018 draft I hoped we signed him, but the Jags scooped him up. I was happy when the Packers plucked him of the Jags PS in Dec. of that year.

So yes, I like him too, but have to be cautious about being too optimistic about his potential. I think he was a virtual unknown to most teams last year. Teams will now have some tape on him and his job gets a bit harder. All that said, I think he has a better chance of being a solid WR than MVS, Kumerow or Allison. The book is still out on ESB, he could be a guy that Gute is counting on to be the #4 or #5 WR.

 

[Dantés]

Here's a thread on ol' Scrum Diddly Funchess from the best in the biz, Ben Fennell:

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[Do7]

Here's a thread on ol' Scrum Diddly Funchess from the best in the biz, Ben Fennell:

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Big body, good hands, can take a hit, and he's pretty quick. I like it.