Packers release Hawk

[Carl]

I do not like his height, and think that he may get lost inside against bigger blockers, but from the aggressiveness, and instincts, cant ask for a whole lot more from an ILB in this draft.

Bobby Wagner is 6 ft even and a very good ILB. Height isn't a big deal if he can play.

 

[DaveRoller]

http://www.packersnews.com/story/sp.../2015/02/25/thompson-hung-hawk-long/24027753/

Excellent article. Hawk's subpar play really, really hurt the Packers the past couple of years, too bad TT didn't bite the bullet and send him packing earlier.

Easily TT's worst contract extension (except perhaps the one for Brad Jones).

 

[yooperpackfan]

Excellent article. Hawk's subpar play really, really hurt the Packers the past couple of years, too bad TT didn't bite the bullet and send him packing earlier.

Easily TT's worst contract extension (except perhaps the one for Brad Jones).

Brad Jones contract was worse.
At least Hawk was assignment sure and could stay on the field.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Bobby Wagner is 6 ft even and a very good ILB. Height isn't a big deal if he can play.

Wagner is way faster than Perryman though as he ran a 4.46 40 during his pro day.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Looks like we can stop all the speculation on drafting and FA's at ILB.....Packers scouts have been busy behind the scenes with this breaking news!

http://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2...-francis-from-wichita-falls-nighthawks-of-ifl

 

[PackerDNA]

Height can be a factor, but not so much , if at all, with exceptional players. What you need to find out is, is the guy a football player. If so, forget the 'measurables'.
Sam Mills, anyone?

 

[fanindaup]

Height can be a factor, but not so much , if at all, with exceptional players. What you need to find out is, is the guy a football player. If so, forget the 'measurables'.
Sam Mills, anyone?

Or Chris Borland?

 

[Half Empty]

Question came up in another forum, wonder if anyone here has the answer. Lots of articles referring to Hawk's Packer record of 1118 tackles, lot of articles showing career stats. Haven't seen one with both. All the sites I've check have him with (give or take a couple) 920 regular season and 40 postseason tackles. Where do the other 150 or so come from?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Question came up in another forum, wonder if anyone here has the answer. Lots of articles referring to Hawk's Packer record of 1118 tackles, lot of articles showing career stats. Haven't seen one with both. All the sites I've check have him with (give or take a couple) 920 regular season and 40 postseason tackles. Where do the other 150 or so come from?

According to the 2014 Packers Media Guide Hawk had a total of 1,025 career tackles before the 2014 season. Their numbers vastly differ from the ones on NFL.com.

 

[adambr2]

Guessing it's different ways of accounting for assisted tackles? Seems like a pretty big discrepancy.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

maybe they added one for each time his helmet came off?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Guessing it's different ways of accounting for assisted tackles? Seems like a pretty big discrepancy.

There's a huge difference in solo tackles as well.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Tackles are not an official NFL stat. See the following link for an indication of where the discrepancy comes from:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10000872396390444897304578044610803692432

 

[HardRightEdge]

Bobby Wagner is 6 ft even and a very good ILB. Height isn't a big deal if he can play.

I'd say he's better than very good.

 

[Half Empty]

Tackles are not an official NFL stat. See the following link for an indication of where the discrepancy comes from:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10000872396390444897304578044610803692432

Also found some articles that say tackles weren't an official stat until this century. So essentially, Hawk is the all-time leading tackler for the Packers because the Packers say so?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Also found some articles that say tackles weren't an official stat until this century. So essentially, Hawk is the all-time leading tackler for the Packers because the Packers say so?

The Packers are tracking tackles since 1975 and Hawk was leading the team in total tackles and was fourth in unassisted tackles before the 2014 season. He probably took over the franchise lead in unassisted tackles as well in 2014.

 

[Half Empty]

Not to beat a dead horse, but is the bottom line that the Packers can say whatever they want about Hawk and his tackles, regardless of what the NFL and other stats sites say?

 

[HardRightEdge]

Not to beat a dead horse, but is the bottom line that the Packers can say whatever they want about Hawk and his tackles, regardless of what the NFL and other stats sites say?

The gist of the matter is the "unofficial official" stats you see at nfl.com are done on the fly by the official scorer, who also happens to be a team hire. He doesn't have time to study replays. He makes a best guess based on a first take of the play. Because they are unofficial, there's no effort to review and adjust after the game. Sacks are an official stat and it's not uncommon for post-game changes to be made.

The team numbers come out film review and player grading. Same with PFF. It would be interesting to see how PFF's numbers compare with the team numbers. Not interesting enough for me to pay for PFF's numbers, though.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

The gist of the matter is the "unofficial official" stats you see at nfl.com are done on the fly by the official scorer, who also happens to be a team hire. He doesn't have time to study replays. He makes a best guess based on a first take of the play. Because they are unofficial, there's no effort to review and adjust after the game. Sacks are an official stat and it's not uncommon for post-game changes to be made.

The team numbers come out film review and player grading. Same with PFF. It would be interesting to see how PFF's numbers compare with the team numbers. Not interesting enough for me to pay for PFF's numbers, though.

According to PFF Hawk has a total of 560 solo tackles and 134 assists in the regular season since 2007 (PFF doesn´t have any stats for earlier seasons). According to the NFL´s unofficial official stats he has 545 solo tackles and 257 assists over the same time period. It seems like the Packers are way off in their assessment.

 

[Half Empty]

That's pretty much all I was trying to say. Seemed like there had to be an answer someplace, but I can't find one.

 

[HardRightEdge]

According to PFF Hawk has a total of 560 solo tackles and 134 assists in the regular season since 2007 (PFF doesn´t have any stats for earlier seasons). According to the NFL´s unofficial official stats he has 545 solo tackles and 257 assists over the same time period. It seems like the Packers are way off in their assessment.

Then there's the 3rd. set of numbers.

The unofficial official stats from nfl.com, presumably from the official game scorer, total 921 solo+assist for his regular season career. The Packer press release gives him credit for 1,118 tackles. The press release does not indicate if they're throwing in playoff numbers. Even so, 12 playoff games would not account for 197 tackles.

Your comparison goes to illustrate that a solo tackle is relatively easy to identify whereas "assist" is a very squishy concept. I'd put "assist" on par with "pressure"; some imagination has to be applied as regards the outcome of the play in its absence. For example, if an ILB anticipates to the right hole, redirecting the runner into another player's tackle, does one scorer give him an assist even though he never laid a hand on the runner whereas another scorer does not?
How about Hawk's many late appearances at the ball these last few years? Are the Packers scorers more generous in this regard?

Clearly PFF more stringently constrains the imagination as regards tackles...or at least the guy(s) grading Packer games are more discriminating. I would not necessarily be confident of consistency from one PFF grader to another...just as the unofficial official scorers might count differently. Further, I'd be a bit skeptical of PFF's numbers prior to 2013. If memory serves, they did not have all-22 coaches tape until nfl.com started supplying them in 2013, though they're likely better than the official scorer's on-the-fly assessments.

The minor discrepancy in solos does beg a few questions. If a guy is run out bounds, is that a tackle for one scorer and not for another? Before Hawk cut his hair, was there an occasional confusion as regards the identity of the tackler?

My takeaways:

1. Solo tackle counts probably have some merit.
2. Beware the assists.
3. It's safe to assume Ray Nitschke is the all-time Packer tackle leader even if they were not being counted.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Then there's the 3rd. set of numbers.

The unofficial official stats from nfl.com, presumably from the official game scorer, total 921 solo+assist for his regular season career. The Packer press release gives him credit for 1,118 tackles. The press release does not indicate if they're throwing in playoff numbers. Even so, 12 playoff games would not account for 197 tackles.

The Packers numbers don't include playoff games. My advice would be to take the total amount of tackles with a grain of salt.