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Packer's O-line is one player away.

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by DILLIGAFF, Jan 26, 2010.

  1. DILLIGAFF

    DILLIGAFF Cheesehead

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    www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/82691402.html

    The Packers O-line needs at least one addition to help take this team to the next level. This is what I see

    Right tackle - I think if Tauscher is healthy and does not break the bank in a new contract, has enough gas in the tank for another year

    Right Guard - Sitton, played well and will only get better

    Center - let Wells and Spitz battle it out

    Left Guard - I can see Lang doing well here replacing Colledge, also I know people will say I am crazy but I believe Barbre could also do well here if Lang is needed at right tackle if Tauscher is unable to stay healthy.

    Barbre biggest strength was his run blocking, he just does not have it against the speedy DE in pass blocking. I think at the guard position maximizes his strength and may be a more natural position.

    Left Tackle - This needs to be high draft pick/trade/free agent. Clifton barley made it through this year and I can not see him taking a hugh reduction in pay and retires. Lang is a good back up here but not the person you want to take this team to the next level.

    Here are other options with Tauscher not returning, working for the future with the young guys. This is where I think the Pack should go.

    ______LT_________LG___________C____________RG__________RT____
    "A"--unknown-----Barbre---------Spitz-----------Sitton---------Lang
    "B"--unknown-----Spitz----------Wells-----------Sitton---------Lang

    I really think Colledge has to go or be a back up. It would not surprise me that Barbre finds his home at a guard position, he has the physical gifts and is great at run blocking, just keep him away from the speedy DEs. Lang's future is at right tackle and the sooner he starts to play there the better.
     
  2. AllouezPackerFan

    AllouezPackerFan Section 121 Row 47

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    I basically agree with what you've said. I would love for us to get a big solid right tackle. TT seems to love drafting under sized, athletic, o-lineman from smaller universities. Hasn't worked. We need a big bruiser. i.e. Flozell Adams or Bryant McKinnie
     
  3. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    The way I see it, for the near future, our biggest need is at LG.

    I believe Lang could be a solid LT. His position is at RT when Tauscher call it quits, but he's too good of a RT to let Lang take his job now. Tauscher healthy is still one of the premier RTs in the league, just look at the tape from his last 2 seasons. If he has allowed 4 sacks it baffles me, and he's good at the screen game.

    Colledge is mediocre. Don't know if Lang could be a LG. I don't like shuffling him, he needs to learn one position, and if he's to shuffle, be it at both tackles.

    Wells clearly is still the answer at center. The difference between with and without him was astonishing, in terms of blitz pickup.

    Sitton is a very good answer at RG for years to come. May be reaching, but I think he has pro bowl potential.

    Taushcer, like I said before, is one of the premier RTs in the league. He is washed up, no doubt about it. But he never was considered an athletic RT. At RT, with a right handed QB, he doesn't need to be. Fact is, however he does it, he's rarely beaten by the rush, and provides good push at the running game (not great, but definitely not lacking). In the end, us being a passing team, that's all that matters.

    -

    So, in the near future, our problem is the LG. But we sure need a stud LT to build from.
     
  4. DILLIGAFF

    DILLIGAFF Cheesehead

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    I am torn with the Well/Spitz debate, but I agree with you Wells can do the job. So you do not think Spitz is a candidate for the Left Guard position? I take it by your silence that Barbre is not the answer either.

    For the short term if Tauscher is ready for another year, Lang needs experience and deserves a starting position. Then I see Lang playing left guard for a year or two.
     
  5. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Barbre is just too bad at pass pro to even be considered. They thought he could pick it up, as he had very good demeanor and run blocking skills.

    However, he failed both physically and mentally. And the Guard job requires much more mental work, at blitz pickup. I'd be astonished if Barbre plays any snap with the Packers.

    Spitz was terrible this year. Just terrible. He's not an option at center, and was also mediocre when played Guard. I don't take him as a viable option at our line. He can be a serviceable backup Guard.

    As I said, I believe Lang is the future at RT. But Taushcer is much better than him right now, and losing him would be a blow.

    I also believe the coaches are sick and tired of this merry-go-round, and would bet money that they won't play Lang at any other position than Tackle, unless there're 3 or 4 injuries on the OL.

    The way I, and I believe the coaches, see is that this kid is a rookie with a bright future. Placing him at Guard, with so many different functions than the Tackle, would delay greatly his improvement.

    I'm 95% sure that's what they think about the OL players that didn't pan out, that they shuffled too much, and that's why they didn't pan out.

    So my money is on that there'll be absolutely no improvisations on the OL, unless absolutely necessary.

    Don't know if I made myself clear...

    (BTW, made a thread at Draft Talk section as to who (?) the Packers will select in the draft)
     
  6. DILLIGAFF

    DILLIGAFF Cheesehead

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    So you are saying at this point we do not have a starting left tackle or guard? Lang will be a back up or insurance policy on Tauscher. I think it is a big "if" Tauscher can make it through a 16 game season he only fully played 7 games and a playoff game this year and Clifton proved that a 16 game season is hard to get through at his age and injuries.

    I see your point if TT makes the other two positions a priority in the draft/free agency/trade. I can see the Pack getting one more quality lineman, but not two starters this year.

    So you are saying we probably get help at left tackle and Colledge/Spitz/unknown will more than likely play guard.
     
  7. DILLIGAFF

    DILLIGAFF Cheesehead

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    I guess if you don't want to play musical chairs then the following is more than likely to happen:

    Starters:
    LT - Clifton (1 year contract)
    LG - Colledge
    C - Wells
    RG - Sitton
    RT - Tauscher (1 yr contract)

    Backups
    LT - Rookie (hopefully can compete for a starting spot)
    LG - Rookie (rookie who can compete for starting job)
    C - Spitz
    RG - Spitz/Dietrich-Smith
    RT - Lang
     
  8. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    What I'm saying is that we definitely need both positions.

    However, if it were to really invest in one, given the opportunity that presents, it would be at LG.

    I hadn't thought about your point of Tauscher not being durable, and agree with you.

    We need, no matter what, to hire at least a backup LT.

    But, unless we manage to get Penn or Trueblood, I don't see any LTs to build from. It's soon, but I don't see any viable options at LT in the draft. Any guy that we could pick with the 23th pick would not be an improvement over Lang.

    Iupati and Evans, however, would be an instant upgrade to our LG, and make our OL much better.

    I'll put it in scenarios; from better to worst (all considering Tauscher back):

    1) We get Penn, Evans and Best. Then Lang is the Tackle backup.
    2) We get Penn and Iupati. Lang is the Tackle backup.
    3) We get Trueblood, Evans and Best.
    4) We get Trueblood and Iupati.
    5) We get Evans and Best. Lang is the LT. We still need a backup LT
    6) We get Iupati. Lang is the LT.
    7) We get Williams, Bulaga or Charles Brown (Don't know which is best). IMHO Lang would be the LT, we would still have a hole at LG, but our LT of the future probably would be on the team.

    So, the way I see, improvising Lang at LT wouldn't be an improvisation per say, because Tackle positions are similar. And I think, unless we get Okung, Davis, Penn or Trueblood, Lang would still be a better LT right now than the other possible pick.

    Evans or Iupati, on the other hand, would be an immense upgrade over Spitz and Colledge.

    -

    What I'm saying is, we need a LT no matter what. However, chances are much slimmer that we can improve our CURRENT OL by getting a LT than a LG. So, if we can't get Penn, Trueblood, Russel Okung or Anthony Davis, I'd rather invest in the LG position and postpone the LT need for one more year. We can do with Lang and Tauscher at the Tackles and a serviceable backup. We can't, however, continue with Colledge and Spitz as the LGs.

    BTW, I believe Clifton is done. He didn't play well this year, neither did he last year.
     
  9. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    My ideal roster would be:

    LT - Penn
    LG - Evans
    C - Wells
    RG - Sitton
    RT - Tauscher

    backups

    LT - Lang
    LG - Spitz
    C - ? (maybe Dietrich-Smith)
    RG - Spitz
    RT - Lang

    Spitz just doesn't know blitz to work as center. There's a reason Julian Peterson shoot clean at the Lions game.

    As I've said in the Draft section, I don't see it happening, though.

    What I see is us getting Iupati at LG and not getting any impact FAs at OL...
     
  10. DILLIGAFF

    DILLIGAFF Cheesehead

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    I agree with you in that you pick the best player available, not by need.

    If I understand what you are saying, I believe if you keep Tauscher you have to keep Clifton, between the two of them with Lang as a back up you will keep the positions filled without playing musical chairs.

    LT - Clifton (Lang)
    LG - Iupati/Evans (Spitz)
    c - Wells (Spitz)
    RG - Sitton
    RT - Tauscher (Lang)(rookie 4th round)

    If Clifton is not on the roaster and Tauscher goes down, then what do we do if Lang is the Starting LT to replace Tauscher, IMO this will happen at the worst time. We could always find another Lang in the 3rd to 4th round.

    Colledge is the weakest link on the O-line besides left tackle.

    The left tackle position is tricky, free agency is limited and expensive. The draft is not looking good unless we trade up. Other option is a block buster trade which TT will unlikely do. I guess we could go with our first 2 picks as lineman, using our second to get a rookie right tackle for the backup for Tauscher, then Start Lang at left and letting Clifton go.

    TT let this go too far without addressing it earlier, though it is a shame that Colledge did not turn out to be the guy.
     
  11. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    I think Lang right now is a better option at LT then Clifton. He played as good as him last year, and he'll almost surely improve next year, while Clifton will almost surely get worse, due to age.

    As I've said, I think Clifton is the best option as a backup as there is out there, but I doubt he'll want that, and that he's too expensive to be kept at LT.

    If both are given the opportunity to battle for the starting spot, Lang beats Clifton hands down.

    My point is not to keep players were they are. Is to not do anything to hurt their improvement.

    Lang playing at LT would actually make him a better RT. Lang switching between Guard and Tackle would not.

    And BTW, given both players' attributes, though I think Spitz is better at LG than Colledge, I believe Colledge is a better option at C than Spitz. I don't think, however, both are viable options to start.
     
  12. DILLIGAFF

    DILLIGAFF Cheesehead

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    I can see this, but we would have to find a suitable backup for Tauscher either in the draft or free agency. You have to have a plan "B" with Tauscher due to age and injuries.

    I don't think Clifton or Colledge are worth the money they think they deserve.

    You bring up a different way of going about adressing the O-line, this year it is not in the cards to address the left tackle position, Lang will do an adequate job at left tackle while we improve at another position. I understand what you are getting at. The only difference is that I can see TT waiting till the second to fourth rounds to address it.

    This is what TT will do if Best or CJ are avaible in the first round.
    LT - Lang (rookie 2nd round)
    LG - Colledge
    C - Wells
    RG - Sitton
    RT - Tauscher (rookie 4th)

    I am not certain TT/MM have the same concerns about Colledge as we do.
     
  13. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    That's precisely what I think. It's mcuh easier to adress the LG position this year, and we have a bigger hole there this season that at the LT spot.

    I don't agree, however, with what you said about the draft. I do agree that they see Colledge with better eyes than we do, But I doubt they'll evaluate him as a competent starter. (but after they re-signed Bush, I don't doubt anything). And I think they have Tauscher, Lang and Grant at much higher status than they have Colledge.

    I think TT showed last year that he'll adress needs before he gets the BPA, as long as the players aren't too far between.

    If he has a shot at Spiller, that'll be the pick hands down. It's just too much higher stock than any other option. And it is a sort of a need.

    But when looking at Best, Iupati or the Tackles I mentioned, maybe Best will be higher on his list, but not much than Iupati, if any. Packers' personel have already contacted Iupati, IN THE FIRST DAY OF SENIOR BOWL PRACTICE.

    And Iupati will be higher than the Tackles.

    So, when balancing things out, I'd bet that TT makes the same move he did with Raji and Crabtree. Crabtree was reportedly his #1 on the board, but Raji wasn't very far. As DT was a much bigger need than WR, he was taken.

    I see something like this:

    Spiller - 5
    Best - 20
    Iupati - 22
    Bulaga - 26
    Williams - 27

    Actually, I see Iupati higher in TT's board than Best, but if by any chance Best is higher, it won't be by much. As OL will be a higher need than RB, I believe Iupati ultimately will be the pick.

    Of course, everything said here is highly hypotetical. We're too far from the Draft. Stocks could be highly altered, FAs could be or not be available. Trades could happen...
     
  14. DILLIGAFF

    DILLIGAFF Cheesehead

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    I guess another question is what free agent left guards are out there?
     
  15. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    2010 NFL Free Agents: OL

    But it's too early. There's Mankins that would also be a very good option...
     
  16. ThinkICare

    ThinkICare Cheesehead

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    Man, I'd love it if TT got Penn, Iupati, and Spiller. We'd be set for 5 years at least.
     
  17. ThinkICare

    ThinkICare Cheesehead

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    Pretty sure Mankins is a restricted FA. We'd have to trade for him.
     
  18. Jess

    Jess Movement!

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    Tauscher isn't bionic. We're going to need to replace him soon. Same with Clifton.

    If they find suitable replacements this offseason, I would be all for it.

    (What if Tauscher is bionic?!)
     
  19. Mr. StyleZ

    Mr. StyleZ Banned Banned

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    :thumbsup:

    But shhh.. don't let the pessimists see this. They will scold us for hoping. I'll even throw in this latest Cromartie rumor.. Ha!
     
  20. NYPacker

    NYPacker Cheesehead

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    The way I see it running back isn't as great a need as we think it is. This is why I doubt neither Spiller nor Best will be taken with that 23rd pick. I mean I'm not saying they're bad players but I doubt TT will dish out the cash for another running back while Grant is eating a large part of the team salary. Getting either best or spiller would do just that, while there is no more salary cap I doubt TT defers from his "frugal" methods. But I don't think it's anything to worry about. I would be happier if we went with a safe pick to improve the OL with either Bulaga or Iupati and resign Ahman "Batman" Green. Green shows promise as a good third down back and we extend his contract for another year without having to worry about a single penny. And I like what I see from Jackson in terms of receiving and blitz pickup. Because of his ability to do this I think it will buy us time for o-line improvement.
     
  21. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Hello, dream team!
    So, they're wrong?
    Tauscher, in fact, is washed up and done. Physically.

    He doesn't play based on athleticism. He plays based on tenacity and knowledge of the game. Which for an OL besides LT is perfectly fine. That's why linemen tend to play till 36, 37. Except for LTs.

    We already got a replacement for him in Lang.

    I just think we need a LG more than we need a future replacement. More than that, I think this year it's easier to get a great fixture at LG than it is at LT.
     
  22. ThinkICare

    ThinkICare Cheesehead

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    On a different site I went to talking about the 2010 free agents, it said Mankins was a restricted free agent. IDK who's right or wrong.


    Here's the site http://gnb.scout.com/a.z?s=61&p=9&c=12&yr=2010&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16


    BTW I just read what the site you posted had up. It says Makins is a RFA too, I think you might have been confused since it did have UFA right by his name too, but they meant it to mean only if the CBA is settled.
     
  23. DILLIGAFF

    DILLIGAFF Cheesehead

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  24. ThinkICare

    ThinkICare Cheesehead

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  25. DILLIGAFF

    DILLIGAFF Cheesehead

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    Kiper has the Pack picking Taylor Mays in a mock draft, Mays is showing some red flags in the Senior Bowl, can't cover the fast receivers.

    I really want the O-line up graded this year, more so than the defense. I would like to see A-rod with an half a second to a full second longer to throw in the pocket. Just imagine our receiving threats would do if A-rod just had a little more time.

    I would not mind if TT trades up to get another first round pick to ensure we get a guard like Iupati and a player like CJ Spiller or Best. Then again I think I would be happy with both first round picks used on the O-line.
     

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