Packers by position DLine

[Pokerbrat2000]

Everyone on the D line except Clark is at best a rotation player. We need to beef up that line with better players.

Arik Armstead (SF)
Chris Jones (KC)
Vic Beasley (ATL)
Yannick Ngakoue (JAC)

Aged 30+

Jason Pierre-Paul (TB)
Derek Wolfe (DEN)

The Falcons just said that they won't be resigning Vic Beasley. I got all excited, in my head he was an ILB, but now I read he is an OLB or DE?

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

He's not a 3-4 DE. He could possibly move to ILB though....

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

He's not a 3-4 DE. He could possibly move to ILB though....

Guessing he is going to want and command a lot more money than the Packers are willing to pay him, especially if some teams view him as an OLB and are willing to pay him as one.

 

[Dantés]

The Falcons just said that they won't be resigning Vic Beasley. I got all excited, in my head he was an ILB, but now I read he is an OLB or DE?

He's an edge who is too light to play on early downs. He'd be a pass rush specialist most places.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

He's an edge who is too light to play on early downs. He'd be a pass rush specialist most places.

But at 6'3 246 he would be perfect as an ILB. Not sure about his coverage ability but we can draft a coverage ILB, he'd be an awesome run plugging No. 2 ILB though with sack ability.

 

[Dantés]

But at 6'3 246 he would be perfect as an ILB. Not sure about his coverage ability but we can draft a coverage ILB, he'd be an awesome run plugging No. 2 ILB though with sack ability.

That's a huge assumption.

 

[XPack]

I think he's versatile. But on second thoughts doesn't have the size for 3-4 DE.

Someone close to or over 300lbs is what we're looking for, right?

 

[Pkrjones]

Rather than pay A LOT for Beasley & have the crap-shoot of having him switch positions I'd rather get a stud WR & DT with 1st 2 draft picks and take Jordyn Brooks or Evan Weaver in the 3rd Rnd.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

I think he's versatile. But on second thoughts doesn't have the size for 3-4 DE.

Someone close to or over 300lbs is what we're looking for, right?

Correct, somewhere between 280-310 for a 3-4 DE.

But Beasley is also light to be a 4-3 DE by about 20 lbs. He should have been converted to strictly OLB or ILB. His market value is going to be tempered because he's out of position for the NFL. He won't be a cheap signing but he shouldn't be overly expensive either. For the right price he could give us flexibility in the Draft where we don't have to pick 2 or even 3 ILBs.

 

[OldSchool101]

There’s the old saying. Battles are won and lost in the trenches.
I still believe what we saw was an “Old School” complete domination at the LOS in the NFC loss. So much so, it changed the entire dynamic of the game. MLF face said it all.. he looked sick at times as we got absolutely steamrolled.
I believe had we had a Suh, bully type (using for dramatic effect) DT upfront paired with Kenny and added with an aggressive bruising style ILB? The run D would’ve given up yardage, but not the repeated embarrassment nearly every play.

We absolutely need an answer both at DL and LB or we will suffer all year again. In addition, I’d get Kenny signed yesterday, he’s obviously the only solid upfront.

 

[Dantés]

Correct, somewhere between 280-310 for a 3-4 DE.

But Beasley is also light to be a 4-3 DE by about 20 lbs. He should have been converted to strictly OLB or ILB. His market value is going to be tempered because he's out of position for the NFL. He won't be a cheap signing but he shouldn't be overly expensive either. For the right price he could give us flexibility in the Draft where we don't have to pick 2 or even 3 ILBs.

You can't assign a guy to a given position based simply on size. Beasley was an edge in college and has been an edge for four years in the pros. Moving him to full time off-ball linebacker would be a total experiment.

 

[Dantés]

Hey Brent Urban is a crappy defensive tackle but he's 6'7" 300 so he's perfect size for play offensive tackle. Let's pay him to replace Bulaga.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

You can't assign a guy to a given position based simply on size. Beasley was an edge in college and has been an edge for four years in the pros. Moving him to full time off-ball linebacker would be a total experiment.

And yet NFL personnel guys do it all the time. College OTs become OGs, WRs become TEs, S become CBs, etc..... Size matters at that level, and there's a reason why a former Top 10 pick is not being retained by his original team. His inconsistencies I believe are relative to his size. Speed only goes so far because the game is so much faster at this level, I believe teams are finding ways to counter his speed but he doesn't have the additional size to make an impact.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

STRENGTHS
Explosive athlete who's always first off the snap. True edge bender who can torque hips and shoulders to turn corner. Has ankle flexion to dip and slalom around corner at difficult angles to block. Former running back with quick feet and fluid hips. Able to change directions and burst to target. Possesses potentially lethal spin move, but doesn't use it enough. Primarily a hand-in-dirt rusher but has played standing, too. Able to drop into space. Solid instincts and outstanding closing burst. Quick hands to swat initial punch. Hands will get even better and could become a major weapon with more coaching. Can embarrass tackles who lunge and miss.
WEAKNESSES
High cut with narrow waist and thin legs. Needs to add more bulk. Unlikely to convert speed to power against NFL tackles. Wins with athleticism on majority of his sacks. Rarely transitions from speed rush to spin as an instinctual pass-rush counter. Lacks ideal arm length. Too often content to stay blocked if pass rush stalls out. Needs to shed blocks more consistently against run. Good football character, but scouts are concerned about a lack of alpha-dog tenacity.

DRAFT PROJECTION
Round 1
SOURCES TELL US
"He's pretty much what you are looking for if you are a 3-4 team. I think he can play inside or outside because he moves so well. Out of the top-rated outside 'backers, he's the best, in my opinion." -- AFC defensive coordinator

"Between the two Clemson linebackers (Vic Beasley and Stephone Anthony), they really put on a show (at the NFL Scouting Combine). Beasley is going high." -- AFC defensive coordinator
NFL COMPARISON
Bruce Irvin
BOTTOM LINE
Projects as 3-4 outside linebacker. Considered one of the best pure edge rushers in the draft, but needs more sophistication to his approach. Has speed and explosion to become an absolute menace for a creative defensive coordinator. High-impact talent, but needs to crank up competitive nature in order to reach his potential. Teams privately gushed about his ability to carry speed at the combine to go along with his additional weight.

Apparently some scouts agree with me on his being able to play ILB.

 

[Dantés]

And yet NFL personnel guys do it all the time. College OTs become OGs, WRs become TEs, S become CBs, etc..... Size matters at that level, and there's a reason why a former Top 10 pick is not being retained by his original team. His inconsistencies I believe are relative to his size. Speed only goes so far because the game is so much faster at this level, I believe teams are finding ways to counter his speed but he doesn't have the additional size to make an impact.

Of course. But you're suggesting paying him and then switching him and seeing if it works. That's crazy. We have no idea what he would do as an off ball linebacker in this defense. You're basing that projection purely on his height and weight.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

Of course. But you're suggesting paying him and then switching him and seeing if it works. That's crazy. We have no idea what he would do as an off ball linebacker in this defense. You're basing that projection purely on his height and weight.

I'm basing it on his height, weight, and TAPE. He struggles to convert speed to power against NFL OTs. Some he can win with pure speed and others he gets negated easily because NFL OTs are more athletic than the average college OT while still having 50-60 lbs on him. 240lbs isn't enough to play DE anywhere in this league. He should have been strictly an OLB or ILB from Day 1. The Falcons are paying for that mistake unfortunately and that's why he's hitting free agency. You think other NFL personnel guys haven't figured that out?

 

[GleefulGary]

And yet NFL personnel guys do it all the time. College OTs become OGs, WRs become TEs, S become CBs, etc..... Size matters at that level, and there's a reason why a former Top 10 pick is not being retained by his original team. His inconsistencies I believe are relative to his size. Speed only goes so far because the game is so much faster at this level, I believe teams are finding ways to counter his speed but he doesn't have the additional size to make an impact.

Edge rushers and inside backers are completely different positions. I mean, it's not just sliding an OLB inside. It's basically taking a 4-3 pass rushing DE to MLB. It's not at all similar to an OT sliding into OG, or the other examples you posted. It's just not Beasley's skill set. This isn't Madden. Wake up.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

Edge rushers and inside backers are completely different positions. I mean, it's not just sliding an OLB inside. It's basically taking a 4-3 pass rushing DE to MLB. It's not at all similar to an OT sliding into OG, or the other examples you posted. It's just not Beasley's skill set. This isn't Madden. Wake up.

I posted the scouting report on Beasley from NFL.com. Scouts thought he could play inside. Beasley has 2 choices at this point in his career, put on 20 lbs or transition to being a full time LB. He can play any LB position in a 3-4. He doesn't have to be the cover guy, there's another whole linebacker in that system, and I believe he's more than capable of playing zone as well as playing a spy, which we'll need against the Chiefs, Texans, and Ravens, which we'll play 2 out of 3 of those teams next year I believe. He can also rotate at OLB as well as a true chess piece. As the saying goes you can never have enough pass rushers.

 

[Dantés]

I'm basing it on his height, weight, and TAPE. He struggles to convert speed to power against NFL OTs. Some he can win with pure speed and others he gets negated easily because NFL OTs are more athletic than the average college OT while still having 50-60 lbs on him. 240lbs isn't enough to play DE anywhere in this league. He should have been strictly an OLB or ILB from Day 1. The Falcons are paying for that mistake unfortunately and that's why he's hitting free agency. You think other NFL personnel guys haven't figured that out?

I think they figured out this revelation of yours like five years ago. But you can't just take an undersized edge and make him an off ball linebacker in a different defense and expect that it will work because of size. You're not basing any of this off of "TAPE" because there is no "TAPE" of him playing where you suggest he should play here.

It's not like the Falcons haven't been able to figure out what you learned via a google search. He's been an edge rusher there primarily but they've also used him as a 4-3 OLB. He did not exactly thrive.

If he were to be super cheap, then cool. Experiment away. But you have to imagine that even with his obvious limitations, a 27 year old with 37.5 sacks under his belt is going to get a look as a pass rush specialist somewhere at a decent rate. Say his floor is a very conservative 7M/season. Matching that so that the Packers can tinker with his spot and see if it takes or not is a horrible idea.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I think its safe to say that the Packers aren't in full rebuild mode and actually may just be a couple of players away from making a serious run at the SB. So the importance of fixing the few glaring holes (ILB, WR, TE, DL) should be viewed as a this year thing. I don't want to see the Packers roll the dice on projects at those positions, unless those projects come cheap and don't need to be relied upon in 2020.

I have no idea how the FA Group will look in regards to those 4 positions, but I think we will see Gute take a swing on landing at least 2-3 guys to hopefully improve upon them and then use the draft and potentially subsequent Free Agency/Trade later on.

Hopefully the 14-4 Season wasn't a fluke, but whatever it was, I think it might have surprised even Gute and bumped his immediate needs list up a year or two.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

I think they figured out this revelation of yours like five years ago. But you can't just take an undersized edge and make him an off ball linebacker in a different defense and expect that it will work because of size. You're not basing any of this off of "TAPE" because there is no "TAPE" of him playing where you suggest he should play here.

It's not like the Falcons haven't been able to figure out what you learned via a google search. He's been an edge rusher there primarily but they've also used him as a 4-3 OLB. He did not exactly thrive.

If he were to be super cheap, then cool. Experiment away. But you have to imagine that even with his obvious limitations, a 27 year old with 37.5 sacks under his belt is going to get a look as a pass rush specialist somewhere at a decent rate. Say his floor is a very conservative 7M/season. Matching that so that the Packers can tinker with his spot and see if it takes or not is a horrible idea.

When I was referring to tape I meant his tape as DE.

$7M is a worthy "experiment" in my opinion. He can't do any worse than Blake Martinez, and Blake might fetch $10-13M on the open market. At the very least with his athleticism, we're looking at a guy who will get into the backfield. Pettine can use a Safety(as he as with Greene, Campbell, and Amos) for coverage responsibilities and obvious passing downs which allows Beasley to be a pure rusher.

Even if he shows he can't be a 3-4 ILB, he definitely can be a 3-4 OLB. That allows Z. Smith to come down on the line and tandem with Gary. Beasley plays OLB opposite P. Smith. That's a championship quality pass rush on 3rd down and opposing 2 minute drills.

Don't say he can't do it just because you never saw him do it. He has traits that shows he can.

 

[Mondio]

Any GM that gives Blake that amount of money is going to be out of a job soon making decisions like that. I'm not sure I spend 7 million to see if I can move Beasley at this point. I don't really watch the Falcons, so I don't know what he brings to the table, but it would be quite a change in what they expect him to do to move him to ILB and I have no idea if he could do it or not. I'm definitely leaning towards it not being worth it.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Beasley will get paid a tick above an average OLB and that will be way more than the Packers will want to or should pay him as an experimental ILB. Martinez is going to get paid by a GM that sees his stats, his team has a strong DL and he thinks that Blake can be a stud behind that defensive line.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

Beasley will get paid a tick above an average OLB and that will be way more than the Packers will want to or should pay him as an experimental ILB. Martinez is going to get paid by a GM that sees his stats, his team has a strong DL and he thinks that Blake can be a stud behind that defensive line.

You could be right, the market is everything.

And I look forward to Blake's Defensive Player of the Year Award in 2020 because we couldn't utilize him correctly in Green Bay.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

And I look forward to Blake's Defensive Player of the Year Award in 2020 because we couldn't utilize him correctly in Green Bay.

I definitely think there is more to Blake then he has or can show in the Packers current defense. Not a lot more, but he isn't as bad as some want to make him out to be. Maybe he would make a better Middle linebacker in a traditional 4-3?

I think the most disappointing aspect of Blake for me is the fact that he peaked early and seemed to get worse the last season and a half. Also didn't help that he had crap playing next to him at the other ILB spot.