Packers 1st round selection, #12 overall: Rashan Gary, DE

Pokerbrat2000

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The WR room has amazing depth, but lacks true separation at the top

Sorry, I have to disagree on that. While we have ok talent at WR (beyond Adams), we don't have a #1 or really a true #2. I would say Cobb, Lazard and MVS are all average enough to contribute as your rotational #3. However, all 3 have their limitations and the Packers would need Lazard or MVS to really step up their games to be an above average 1 or 2. The wild card is Amari. So far I think he has been a disappointment, but I really didn't expect all that much out of him this and probably even next season.

It appears that the Packers will be picking someplace late in round 1 again, to expect them to find a WR that will immediately contribute, is probably unrealistic. Between TT and Gute, they really haven't done a very good job with the position since the drafting of Adams.
 

tynimiller

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Sorry, I have to disagree on that. While we have ok talent at WR (beyond Adams), we don't have a #1 or really a true #2. I would say Cobb, Lazard and MVS are all average enough to contribute as your rotational #3. However, all 3 have their limitations and the Packers would need Lazard or MVS to really step up their games to be an above average 1 or 2. The wild card is Amari. So far I think he has been a disappointment, but I really didn't expect all that much out of him this and probably even next season.

It appears that the Packers will be picking someplace late in round 1 again, to expect them to find a WR that will immediately contribute, is probably unrealistic. Between TT and Gute, they really haven't done a very good job with the position since the drafting of Adams.

My comment has to be taken in the sense of what I'm saying. When I say amazing depth I mean we have a slew of #3 type guys presently. The issue is we have NONE that separate and even are worth arguing to be a true NFL caliber #2 or better at the present time except Adams.
 

tynimiller

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Also there has been the last two drafts at minimum one WR I had in my drafts top four or higher that was there. Michael Pittman being the one that really jumps out to me - the kid was plug and play ready skilled.

2020 the main two that I had after Day 1 that were first round talents and ready IMO were Pittman and Claypool. Pittman I wanted more than arguably any WR that draft.
2021 the main two that I had after Day 1 that were first round talents and ready IMO were Rashad Bateman and Elijah Moore IMO.

Drafting late first or early second is still a very good time frame IMO to grab a guy.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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My comment has to be taken in the sense of what I'm saying. When I say amazing depth I mean we have a slew of #3 type guys presently. The issue is we have NONE that separate and even are worth arguing to be a true NFL caliber #2 or better at the present time except Adams.
Now THAT makes more sense. ;)

If Adams can't be resigned, Gute may go looking for a WR or 2 in the Free Agent market, but with limited funds, I don't see him finding anyone that special. Which comes full circle to your cap casualty thread. Do you trim some of the fat at positions that are pretty well stocked, so that the WR position has better talent?
 

tynimiller

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Now THAT makes more sense. ;)

If Adams can't be resigned, Gute may go looking for a WR or 2 in the Free Agent market, but with limited funds, I don't see him finding anyone that special. Which comes full circle to your cap casualty thread. Do you trim some of the fat at positions that are pretty well stocked, so that the WR position has better talent?

I don't see it in FA, not the price we will be needing it in.

I foresee us circling wagons around our "own":

Lazard as a RFA will assuredly be back
Malik Taylor as a ERFA will assuredly be back
Winfree most likely gets his big chance in 2022
EQ will have no interest except from us most likely and is back cheap
+
Amari Rodgers
-
Randall Cobb (not worth the money)

The wildcard is what do "we", the Green Bay Packers think MVS is. Do we pay him something that flirts will low end #2 pay....do we risk letting both Adams and our arguably next best possible weapon to leave too?

Personally, if you told me we enter the 2022 season with
MVS, Lazard, Rodgers, Taylor, Winfree, EQ and a Day 1 or Day 2 draft pick - I'm hopeful. I'm hesitant and fearful none of the first three take that needed next step or the rookie isn't ready to be a big time snap count guy...but I'm hopeful.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Personally, if you told me we enter the 2022 season with
MVS, Lazard, Rodgers, Taylor, Winfree, EQ and a Day 1 or Day 2 draft pick - I'm hopeful. I'm hesitant and fearful none of the first three take that needed next step or the rookie isn't ready to be a big time snap count guy...but I'm hopeful.
I was going to post something similar and really MVS is one of those players that if he and his agent think he is worth #2 money, I would let him walk away. I still see him as a 1 trick pony and watched both him and Lazard on Sunday struggling to get separation. People complain about Rodgers throwing to Davante too much, very simple answer, it is because he is about the only guy that consistently gets free.

Without Adams it is a pretty scary outlook at WR for the 2022 team, but if Rodgers is gone, it won't matter anyway.
 

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Sorry, I have to disagree on that. While we have ok talent at WR (beyond Adams), we don't have a #1 or really a true #2. I would say Cobb, Lazard and MVS are all average enough to contribute as your rotational #3. However, all 3 have their limitations and the Packers would need Lazard or MVS to really step up their games to be an above average 1 or 2. The wild card is Amari. So far I think he has been a disappointment, but I really didn't expect all that much out of him this and probably even next season.

It appears that the Packers will be picking someplace late in round 1 again, to expect them to find a WR that will immediately contribute, is probably unrealistic. Between TT and Gute, they really haven't done a very good job with the position since the drafting of Adams.

While I think MVS or Lazard or Cobb are capable of stepping up on any given Sunday and being that #2 or even a fill in #1 I don't think they have what it take to be a consistent #2. I'm not sure I feel as strongly as you do about the late first round pick not being able to contribute right away. Rookies seem to be doing much better in the last few years but as many of those pegged as strong prospects fail as they do succeed. The trick is to find the right one. I know you can say that about any position but just look at the number of day 1 and 2 WRs that are fairly highly touted. Even in our discussions here there always seem to be 4 or 5 guys that someone really likes and says they would be happy with.
 

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While I think MVS or Lazard or Cobb are capable of stepping up on any given Sunday and being that #2 or even a fill in #1 I don't think they have what it take to be a consistent #2. I'm not sure I feel as strongly as you do about the late first round pick not being able to contribute right away. Rookies seem to be doing much better in the last few years but as many of those pegged as strong prospects fail as they do succeed. The trick is to find the right one. I know you can say that about any position but just look at the number of day 1 and 2 WRs that are fairly highly touted. Even in our discussions here there always seem to be 4 or 5 guys that someone really likes and says they would be happy with.
Do you have any idea who our QB is?
 
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Pokerbrat2000

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I'm not sure I feel as strongly as you do about the late first round pick not being able to contribute right away. Rookies seem to be doing much better in the last few years but as many of those pegged as strong prospects fail as they do succeed.
There is always that chance of a rookie stepping up immediately and being a great WR right away. I just don't think the Packers should expect it, but more importantly, rely on it happening. I think if you take a rookie WR next year and put him on the field with MVS/Lazard and Amari, he is going to have a pretty tough time for awhile. Now if you throw a rookie in with Jordy Nelson in his 6th year, Randall Cobb in his 3rd and a younger Aaron Rodgers, you might see some decent productivity from a rookie, but not without the growing pains of a rookie.
 

sschind

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There is always that chance of a rookie stepping up immediately and being a great WR right away. I just don't think the Packers should expect it, but more importantly, rely on it happening. I think if you take a rookie WR next year and put him on the field with MVS/Lazard and Amari, he is going to have a pretty tough time for awhile. Now if you throw a rookie in with Jordy Nelson in his 6th year, Randall Cobb in his 3rd and a younger Aaron Rodgers, you might see some decent productivity from a rookie, but not without the growing pains of a rookie.

Relying on it ? Probably not but what are the options other than to resign Adams, which would be my first choice by the way. I certainly don't see the Packers making a splash in FA other than to resign Adams and none of the lower tier guys are really any different than the guys we have. You have said it many times and I agree with you that the Packers have pretty much ignored the WR room in letting proven players leave (not that they weren't the right moves) without adequately replacing them. They've let themselves become a one horse town and it could end up biting them in the behind. I remember you and I being on that same page 5 years ago or more.

I get the feeling that if we go with Love its going to take a lot more than Adams to keep this team even remotely competitive. That is why I would keep Jaire over Adams if it came down to a choice between the two. I'm afraid that with with Love, at least for another year (see Josh Allen) its going to take a defense that can hold an opponent under 20 points to win many games.

Do you have any idea who are QB is?
Odds are it s Jordan Love for better or worse. I still think Rodgers retires although I'd rather see him traded before that happens so we can get some rebuild capital from him at least. I'd rather see him come back as our starter if they can work out something that doesn't simply continue to kick the can down the road. I realize it would take some of that but if the cap explodes in 2023 like some expect it to it would be easier to absorb
 
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I didn't like the Packers selecting Gary with the 12th overall pick in 2019 either, mainly because the team had just signed the Smiths to huge contracts in free agency. As expected it took until one of them suffered an injury for Gary's playing time to significantly increase.

With that being said it's pretty obvious the Packers drafted an elite player I'm definitely glad is on the roster.
Yeah. It felt like some overlap there with Gary. At the time I expected to keep Fackrell as the primary 3rd OLB and go into another positional direction. Obviously the Capital spent on the Smith brothers was substantial and we could’ve waited a a few draft selections for a 4th Edge (3-4th round etc)
That’s kinda been Gutes MO and I respect him staying true to form in philosophy. He did similarly at QB, whereas he Kinda stuck to his guns with the player he thought was the best long term value (greatest overall benefit to the team). Obviously we won’t know fully until careers are over. But I can definitely see what you mean with some positional overlapping there in our GMs personality. Dillon is another example, he’s starting to blossom and I have a feeling this winter he impresses even more than we expect as he’s oozing confidence.

I like we should get a good look at Garvin
 
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easyk83

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Jenkins truly makes the Bahk money arguably a misstep....BUT when we signed Bahk there was NO way any of us knew we were going to find arguably an even more versatile and LT of the future in Jenkins if we so choose.
The trouble is that theres only one Jenkins and only so many positions that he can play. Besides I wouldnt say that his performance thus far establishes him as a true replacement. We've run a more conservative offense with more emphasis on getting the ball out quick, we dont really ask him to do what we asked Bakh to do.

Clarification, I meant that there's only one Jenkins on the field at any given time hence why I like the ability to move him around as needed given how absurdly versatile he is.
 
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easyk83

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I didn't like the Packers selecting Gary with the 12th overall pick in 2019 either, mainly because the team had just signed the Smiths to huge contracts in free agency. As expected it took until one of them suffered an injury for Gary's playing time to significantly increase.

With that being said it's pretty obvious the Packers drafted an elite player I'm definitely glad is on the roster.

Did you just acknowledge an error? Anyone else smell toast? Why is my nose bleeding?
 

tynimiller

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The trouble is that theres only one Jenkins and only so many positions that he can play. Besides I wouldnt say that his performance thus far establishes him as a true replacement. We've run a more conservative offense with more emphasis on getting the ball out quick, we dont really ask him to do what we asked Bakh to do.

They have and are playing LT in the same system. I know it might be premature but I personally feel 100% confident that Jenkins could be our LT moving forward from this date onward and we would be solid there while he plays.
 

easyk83

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They have and are playing LT in the same system. I know it might be premature but I personally feel 100% confident that Jenkins could be our LT moving forward from this date onward and we would be solid there while he plays.

That they are playing in the same system does not mean that they have not made adjustment. Why is Rodgers throwing Tuddys at a lower rate, why have our offensive PPG declined so much since last year?
 

tynimiller

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That they are playing in the same system does not mean that they have not made adjustment. Why is Rodgers throwing Tuddys at a lower rate, why have our offensive PPG declined so much since last year?

Multitude of injuries along the OL, Adams missed a game, MVS missed multiple, Tonyan injured and Rodgers is also misfiring at times. It is not one sole reason IMO.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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They have and are playing LT in the same system. I know it might be premature but I personally feel 100% confident that Jenkins could be our LT moving forward from this date onward and we would be solid there while he plays.
Not to mention that when Jenkins contract is up (end of next season), are we going to be able to afford both him and Bahk?
 

tynimiller

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Not to mention that when Jenkins contract is up (end of next season), are we going to be able to afford both him and Bahk?

In short yes, especially with our full interior still on rookie contracts essentially. BUT I've long said I believe 2022 will be Bahk's final year here IMO - his hit becomes just crazy and Jenkins could replace him. Much will depend obviously on a lot of things which haven't occurred yet and this could change but presently I think next year is his last year here.
 

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