Packers 1st round selection, #12 overall: Rashan Gary, DE

[Sanguine camper]

I find it hilarious that you are grouping Gary in with Burks and Jackson after his first season.

They all had crap rookie seasons. How hilarious is that? Burks and Jackson followed bad rookie seasons with even worse second years. While rookie seasons don't always tell you how a player may turn out, bad rookie seasons more often than not are correlated with poor second seasons leading to the bust label.

 

[Dantés]

I'm not going to be mad if he isn't technically a starter, but if he isn't getting a lot more snaps and at the very least top 15 guy on defense with snap count, WTF was the point of the pick?

You almost think if he is just a rotating guy this year the FO really had no plan with him when they drafted him. I (probably stubbornly) don't want to hear people bring up 'maybe he isn't just good enough in this league and was a bust at pick #12' as a possibility because the Smiths were already signed pre draft and he had little opportunity to get on the field to show what he can do.

Yeah, I agree with that-- if he's healthy and not playing 60+% of the snaps, then something is not working out.

But at the risk of saying something you don't want to hear, it is possible that a lack of playing time would be due to performance and not because there was no plan. I really, really doubt that any front office in the NFL ever drafts a guy in the first round with no idea of how they want to use him.

As I look at it, the plan is pretty clear-- rotate three good edge players, and get all three together on obvious passing downs with Za'Darius playing inside. There will be plenty of opportunity for that to happen in 2020 with Fackrell undoubtedly gone. It's up to Gary to play well enough to warrant it.

 

[GleefulGary]

They all had crap rookie seasons. How hilarious is that? Burks and Jackson followed bad rookie seasons with even worse second years. While rookie seasons don't always tell you how a player may turn out, bad rookie seasons more often than not are correlated with poor second seasons leading to the bust label.

Burks and Jackson played bad. I wouldn't say that Gary played bad. He had a lot of good moments.

 

[LambeauLombardi]

Yeah, I agree with that-- if he's healthy and not playing 60+% of the snaps, then something is not working out.

But at the risk of saying something you don't want to hear, it is possible that a lack of playing time would be due to performance and not because there was no plan. I really, really doubt that any front office in the NFL ever drafts a guy in the first round with no idea of how they want to use him.

As I look at it, the plan is pretty clear-- rotate three good edge players, and get all three together on obvious passing downs with Za'Darius playing inside. There will be plenty of opportunity for that to happen in 2020 with Fackrell undoubtedly gone. It's up to Gary to play well enough to warrant it.

If he doesn't play much this year that's what will be very frustrating. People can just conveniently say Gary doesn't look good in practice but the thing is we (the fans) have no idea if this guy looks like Jamal Reynolds or Von Miller in practice so we have to go by what the coaches/whoever else tells us. Maybe they had a plan, but if that plan was spend crazy money at both OLB spots then draft Gary at 12 and kind of see what happens and plan on Gary being the starter year 4, that's a horrible plan considering obviously only 2 guys can play OLB. A part of me fears this is what this is veering toward.

Maybe the Fackrell departure will open up some snaps but I can't see it being a big time number. If the Smiths both still see just over 80% of snaps, I struggle seeing room for Gary to get much over 50% of snaps. But that's why the coaches and front office people get paid to do what they do in finding creative ways to get guys on the field. That's all I ask, get this guy on the field.

 

[Dantés]

If he doesn't play much this year that's what will be very frustrating. People can just conveniently say Gary doesn't look good in practice but the thing is we (the fans) have no idea if this guy looks like Jamal Reynolds or Von Miller in practice so we have to go by what the coaches/whoever else tells us. Maybe they had a plan, but if that plan was spend crazy money at both OLB spots then draft Gary at 12 and kind of see what happens and plan on Gary being the starter year 4, that's a horrible plan considering obviously only 2 guys can play OLB. A part of me fears this is what this is veering toward.

Maybe the Fackrell departure will open up some snaps but I can't see it being a big time number. If the Smiths both still see just over 80% of snaps, I struggle seeing room for Gary to get much over 50% of snaps. But that's why the coaches and front office people get paid to do what they do in finding creative ways to get guys on the field. That's all I ask, get this guy on the field.

So what's the alternative here? That he's killing it in practice, and they just don't want to use him? I struggle to imagine that scenario in reality.

Like I said, just adding Fackrell's snaps to what Gary played as a rookie gets you to 659 snaps, which would have been 64%. So it's odd that you struggle to see how he could even exceed 50%.

 

[LambeauLombardi]

So what's the alternative here? That he's killing it in practice, and they just don't want to use him? I struggle to imagine that scenario in reality.

Like I said, just adding Fackrell's snaps to what Gary played as a rookie gets you to 659 snaps, which would have been 64%. So it's odd that you struggle to see how he could even exceed 50%.

It's totally possible they have all 3 of the big time outside linebackers killing it in practice, we just don't know. It's just one of those things that rubs me the wrong way spending your highest dollar amount on 2 OLB and using your highest draft pick in 10 years on a guy to spell them on his rookie deal. I just hope they didn't say 'we're not sure what this Gary can do now but year 4 this guy can be a really good player.' With a pick that high in no way should be a situation you use a pick for a project that sees the field for limited time until year 4. Even if Gary is disappointing in practice, you can't find out if he is just a better game player than practice player (IE Derrick Thomas) since the Smiths are taking all of his snaps.

It's really not just that simple that Gary can take every single one of Fackrell's old snaps from 2019. I have no idea how Pettine is planning on using Gary at potential different spots but looking over time it's hard for backup OLBs to get over 60% if your 2 starters are getting 80% of the snaps. That leaves 40% of the snaps left between the OLB positions alone and Gary can only play at one of those spots at a time. My hope (and everyone else's) is that Pettine gets super creative and finds different ways to get this guy on the field 70%+ of the time. I don't think that's too much to ask for a #12 pick to play 70+% of plays in year 2.

 

[GleefulGary]

There are a lot of potential snaps where Gary can line up at 3T, with Z Smith to the outside of him, or vice versa. You could easily get Gary, Clark, and the Smith Brothers on the field at the same time on 3rd down.

Between sub packages, and just regular old substitution, pretty easy to see Gary getting a lot more snaps than before.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Yeah, I agree with that-- if he's healthy and not playing 60+% of the snaps, then something is not working out.

But at the risk of saying something you don't want to hear, it is possible that a lack of playing time would be due to performance and not because there was no plan. I really, really doubt that any front office in the NFL ever drafts a guy in the first round with no idea of how they want to use him.

As I look at it, the plan is pretty clear-- rotate three good edge players, and get all three together on obvious passing downs with Za'Darius playing inside. There will be plenty of opportunity for that to happen in 2020 with Fackrell undoubtedly gone. It's up to Gary to play well enough to warrant it.

It seemed like the plan was to limit the snaps Gary got as the Smith Bros production skyrocketed. Going forward, and as Gary hopefully develops into a real weapon, the Packers will be able to rotate more and keep the pass rush fresh into the 4th quarter. Well, I hope it turns out that way. It still seems like a strange use of a #12 pick, but what the heck do I know?

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

It's totally possible they have all 3 of the big time outside linebackers killing it in practice, we just don't know. It's just one of those things that rubs me the wrong way spending your highest dollar amount on 2 OLB and using your highest draft pick in 10 years on a guy to spell them on his rookie deal. I just hope they didn't say 'we're not sure what this Gary can do now but year 4 this guy can be a really good player.' With a pick that high in no way should be a situation you use a pick for a project that sees the field for limited time until year 4. Even if Gary is disappointing in practice, you can't find out if he is just a better game player than practice player (IE Derrick Thomas) since the Smiths are taking all of his snaps.

It's really not just that simple that Gary can take every single one of Fackrell's old snaps from 2019. I have no idea how Pettine is planning on using Gary at potential different spots but looking over time it's hard for backup OLBs to get over 60% if your 2 starters are getting 80% of the snaps. That leaves 40% of the snaps left between the OLB positions alone and Gary can only play at one of those spots at a time. My hope (and everyone else's) is that Pettine gets super creative and finds different ways to get this guy on the field 70%+ of the time. I don't think that's too much to ask for a #12 pick to play 70+% of plays in year 2.

It does feel like they could have tapped ILB, S or WR instead with that position as the first overall pick imo should never be a depth pick. I guess I just feel like had they done that, we'd potentially be a little further in the game and maybe having a little more draft capital to go after OL and DL pieces. I'd say TE too, but doesn't appear there's really any standouts there in this draft.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

I certainly understand where the frustration comes in with picking Gary. I believe they chose Gary because they think he will “wear well” over 4-5 years on a relatively cheap deal.
That said, it is peculiar we drafted a player at a position that we just had doubled down at just weeks earlier. Although that may have been an answer to Fackrell being in a contract year overlapping Rashan who was “wet behind the ears” and needed a redshirt type season while soaking in the expertise at the position.
We will find out very soon if that was part of the thought process? If we walk Fackrell and double Rashan’s snap count this healthy rotation starts making more sense.

Well, did it really need to be a first pick made in order to replace Fackrell? I think we could have waited a few rounds and picked up the "project" OLB and either gotten our ILB or WR at that point.

 

[AmishMafia]

I was very hopeful when it sounded like Gary was being mentored by Z. And I am still hopeful.

But I didnt like the pick based on Gary's lack of production in college. A situation where, with his athletic ability and size, he should have absolutely dominated. 3 sacks a season? Should have been 10-15. And I still dont buy the scheme excuse. You dont have a dominating player clear the way for lesser players.

It concerns me that this season turned out about the way I originally expected.

I will still root for the guy. He seems like a good guy and he is a Packer. Hope he can catch the fire.

 

[Heyjoe4]

If he doesn't play much this year that's what will be very frustrating. People can just conveniently say Gary doesn't look good in practice but the thing is we (the fans) have no idea if this guy looks like Jamal Reynolds or Von Miller in practice so we have to go by what the coaches/whoever else tells us. Maybe they had a plan, but if that plan was spend crazy money at both OLB spots then draft Gary at 12 and kind of see what happens and plan on Gary being the starter year 4, that's a horrible plan considering obviously only 2 guys can play OLB. A part of me fears this is what this is veering toward.

Maybe the Fackrell departure will open up some snaps but I can't see it being a big time number. If the Smiths both still see just over 80% of snaps, I struggle seeing room for Gary to get much over 50% of snaps. But that's why the coaches and front office people get paid to do what they do in finding creative ways to get guys on the field. That's all I ask, get this guy on the field.

The pick still confuses me. After spending a boatload of cap on the Smiths, I’m sure Gluten expected big numbers. And of course that’s what the Smiths did. So was Gary drafted to provide depth, or to improve the rotation to keep guys fresh? That’s fine but then why the low snap count.

This story is a long way from over, and I still like a superior D to a superior O, but how are we gonna know until this guy plays?

You don’t get to pick at #12 often (and you don’t want to based on record). It just seemed that with the FA additions there were bigger needs. Again, I’m not the GM so this is Monday-morning stuff, but I’ll be very disappointed if he’s not getting 60% of the snaps this year.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Yeah, I agree with that-- if he's healthy and not playing 60+% of the snaps, then something is not working out.

But at the risk of saying something you don't want to hear, it is possible that a lack of playing time would be due to performance and not because there was no plan. I really, really doubt that any front office in the NFL ever drafts a guy in the first round with no idea of how they want to use him.

As I look at it, the plan is pretty clear-- rotate three good edge players, and get all three together on obvious passing downs with Za'Darius playing inside. There will be plenty of opportunity for that to happen in 2020 with Fackrell undoubtedly gone. It's up to Gary to play well enough to warrant it.

I think you’re right and, well, we’ll see this year. But yeah, I expect a #12 pick to be getting 60% of the snaps by year 2, or what’s the point?

The Smith Bros production last year probably had something to do with it. That said, I’d like to see all three of them as potential sack threats. That will allow MLF to rotate and keep the edge guys fresh into the 2H.

 

[Dblbogey]

There are a lot of potential snaps where Gary can line up at 3T, with Z Smith to the outside of him, or vice versa. You could easily get Gary, Clark, and the Smith Brothers on the field at the same time on 3rd down.

Between sub packages, and just regular old substitution, pretty easy to see Gary getting a lot more snaps than before.

I predict he will be a much better player than Justin Harrell.

 

[OldSchool101]

They all had crap rookie seasons. How hilarious is that? Burks and Jackson followed bad rookie seasons with even worse second years. While rookie seasons don't always tell you how a player may turn out, bad rookie seasons more often than not are correlated with poor second seasons leading to the bust label.

For me, it’s hard to form an opinion either way. As an example Burks played in minimal fashion on Defense altogether, it didn’t help he suffered an early season shoulder injury. When he got back he was relegated to ST where I believe he was a leader in tackles and tackles inside the 20. I could be wrong?
As far as D he had such limited time, I don’t know you can justifiably make a harsh career evaluation. I’d like to see him start the season healthy and put a string of 6+ games or so on D before I get overly critical. What was promising is he won the starting spot next to Martinez, then tore a pretty serious chest muscle.

As far as Gary? We drafted 2 high priced FA so he’s immediately at the bottom and for good reason. Then what were they to do? Bury a 3rd veteran player coming off double digit sacks?? I do wonder why the FO went after a position they stacked in FA though, but again can we make a career evaluation of a guy who barely got 20% Defensive snaps (good or bad)?

Josh Jackson concerns me the most, for a top #50 selection he should be farther along by now. 2019 better be more than just a nice rehearsal again. I honestly think he fits more of a Safety mold.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Burks and Jackson played bad. I wouldn't say that Gary played bad. He had a lot of good moments.

Yeah Gary overall played well, he just didn’t play much. I saw your comment about getting the Smith Bro’s and Gary on the field at the same time. That should be very doable and I hope to see Gary’s snap count increase dramatically so we can see what we’ve got. I’m cautious, but optimistic.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

For me, it’s hard to form an opinion either way. As an example Burks played in minimal fashion on Defense altogether, it didn’t help he suffered an early season shoulder injury. When he got back he was relegated to ST where I believe he was a leader in tackles and tackles inside the 20. I could be wrong?
As far as D he had such limited time, I don’t know you can justifiably make a harsh career evaluation. I’d like to see him start the season healthy and put a string of 6+ games or so on D before I get overly critical. What was promising is he won the starting spot next to Martinez, then tore a pretty serious chest muscle.

I agree that it's close to impossible to fairly evaluate Burks performance on defense because he hasn't played a ton of snaps. But that's what is concerning in my opinion as he the coaches didn't trust him enough to get on the field while having a dire need at the position.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Burks and Jackson played bad. I wouldn't say that Gary played bad. He had a lot of good moments.

Burks and Jackson have played bad, yet they’re two different cases. I haven’t seen enough of Burks to know if he can step up when healthy. Depending on how they backfill for Martinez, give him another year.

Jackson seems like he’s had plenty of opportunity to establish himself. I think it’s time to use a 3rd of 4th round pick on a CB, and maybe move on from Jackson. And I’m surprised, I thought Jackson “had it.”

 

[GleefulGary]

Burks and Jackson have played bad, yet they’re two different cases. I haven’t seen enough of Burks to know if he can step up when healthy. Depending on how they backfill for Martinez, give him another year.

Jackson seems like he’s had plenty of opportunity to establish himself. I think it’s time to use a 3rd of 4th round pick on a CB, and maybe move on from Jackson. And I’m surprised, I thought Jackson “had it.”

Burks was healthy, and he still couldn't get on the field with all the issues we had. It's very concerning. He's got the physical talent, but this is probably his last real year to show he can do it. Gotta put it together at some point.

I never was a fan of Jackson, but he's been even worse than I thought he would be. To be fair, we're not running a scheme that's a fit for him. He may show better if we played a lot more zone.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

It does feel like they could have tapped ILB, S or WR instead with that position as the first overall pick imo should never be a depth pick. I guess I just feel like had they done that, we'd potentially be a little further in the game and maybe having a little more draft capital to go after OL and DL pieces. I'd say TE too, but doesn't appear there's really any standouts there in this draft.

We took the first S off the board with our second pick in the first round. Marquise Brown and N'Keal were drafted after our 2nd first round pick - Brown flashed a bit but had health concerns - I'm not sure if either would be first-round picks this year. The two MLB's who were worth anything were taken before our first pick. We really didn't have a lot of great can't miss options at 12. Maybe make an argument for Fant there, but even then that's a bit of a reach. He showed some real promise last year though. If you're saying there weren't any standouts from this draft, wait a year or two. Hockenson and Fant will be players to watch and could be probowl TE's in a short period of time.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

We really didn't have a lot of great can't miss options at 12.

A lot of fans had an issue with selecting Gary because it was conceivable that he wouldn't have a huge impact after Gutekunst signed the Smiths in free agency.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Gary played through his rookie season with a torn labrum, possibly with a shoulder harness as was the case in training camp.

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/20...ld-be-low-about-rashan-garys-shoulder-injury/

The possibility of off-season surgery after 2019 was reported. I don't see any reports to that affect. Is anybody aware of such surgery?

 

[tynimiller]

Just putting it out there that Gary appears to have simply pushed the work petal to the floor this offseason. Some of his work out videos have been impressive and the dude straight looks different IMO. He wasn't fat before, but you can tell he has transitioned to a lower body fat percent for sure.

Excited to see an expanded role if a season happens out of him.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

Just putting it out there that Gary appears to have simply pushed the work petal to the floor this offseason. Some of his work out videos have been impressive and the dude straight looks different IMO. He wasn't fat before, but you can tell he has transitioned to a lower body fat percent for sure.

Excited to see an expanded role if a season happens out of him.

Ya, saw some of his videos. Guy's a BEAST right now. I hope he transitions that to the field.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Just putting it out there that Gary appears to have simply pushed the work petal to the floor this offseason. Some of his work out videos have been impressive and the dude straight looks different IMO. He wasn't fat before, but you can tell he has transitioned to a lower body fat percent for sure.

Excited to see an expanded role if a season happens out of him.

Gary was a great athlete coming out of college. Unfortunately that didn't translate to a lot of success on the field during his rookie season.

Therefore I wouldn't put too much stock into some workout videos.