One more trip down memory lane back to the NFCCG.....

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Pretty sure that's happened with him before and he hit a 4th down throw
But I would argue again watching the highlight reel. Rodgers could’ve ran an angle at the sideline and stopped the clock. If you watch that again, Devin got tangled up (picked) by accident by our receiver in the Endzone. No way does Rodgers not get inside the 5 and out of bounds (maybe 2-3 yard line imo).
So I will ask. Would MLF Kick a FG with a 4th and 3 to go? Also we had 3 Timeouts, a 2 minute (4 timeouts) + 2:20 on the clock. Leave them at the 2 yard line trying if necessary. You can still get the ball back. 4th and 8 is a tough one.

PS. That game was much closer than I recall after reviewing it. Lazard dropped a pass that hit him square in the numbers for 2 points. That play hurt us badly in the end. We were very much in that game the whole time. The only time it looked to get away from us was the Tampa TD off the Aaron Jones fumble etc.. We looked good out there. I think we can beat them this season. We should highly consider getting a veteran trade (before deadline) for another well known Defender who can be disruptive upfront.
 
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milani

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You don't think we could have setup one for Lewis or Tonyan in a back corner route to go haul in? Aaron's made plenty of difficult throws in his career, so you're damn right I'm trusting him.

Yeah, if we miss Brady takes over deeper in his own territory with the defense at least possibly getting better field position if they hold them there. But that's negligible because whether you go for it and miss, or just kick the fg, either scenario we gotta get the ball back and score a TD. Only difference being not having to go for 2.

But, if you do score the TD and get the two, Bucs won't try to just kill the clock. If you stop them, you only need to get a FG to win. But even if you don't stop them getting into fg range, they still might miss the kick.



No, just to make sure he hears about how bad it is to kick a FG when you're down by 8 and surrender in doing so.

Like I said, not a single damn argument is going to change my mind about the stupid FG decision.
No. He could not set one up in the corner. Bucs defense is ready for that on 4th and 10. The only receiver he might find would have been at the 5 and would be tackled. Chances he scrambles and to avoid the sack puts one up in desperation. If he finds Tonyan or Lewis it would be on 1st or 2nd down when the Bucs are covering the run. The chances of hitting the TD and making the 2 pointer were less than 1 in 10.
 

milani

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But I would argue again watching the highlight reel. Rodgers could’ve ran an angle at the sideline and stopped the clock. If you watch that again, Devin got tangled up (picked) by accident by our receiver in the Endzone. No way does Rodgers not get inside the 5 and out of bounds (maybe 2-3 yard line imo).
So I will ask. Would MLF Kick a FG with a 4th and 3 to go? Also we had 3 Timeouts, a 2 minute (4 timeouts) + 2:20 on the clock. Leave them at the 2 yard line trying if necessary. You can still get the ball back. 4th and 8 is a tough one.

PS. That game was much closer than I recall after reviewing it. Lazard dropped a pass that hit him square in the numbers for 2 points. That play hurt us badly in the end. We were very much in that game the whole time. The only time it looked to get away from us was the Tampa TD off the Aaron Jones fumble etc.. We looked good out there. I think we can beat them this season. We should highly consider getting a veteran trade (before deadline) for another well known Defender who can be disruptive upfront.
Beautiful. Yes, A KNOWN DEFENDER. Someone we seem to need every August. But had Rodgers got to the 2,3,or 4 I believe LaFleur DOES go for it. The odds improve at least three fold at that distance. All you have to do is beat one defender for one second and it is a bang bang play. Heck, you can use a FB faking a block like Kuhn used to do. Back in 1966 the Packers trailed Cleveland 20-14 with just over a minute to go. It was 4th and goal at the 8. If they do not get in the Browns run out the clock. Instead of going in the end zone Starr hits Taylor on a curl underneath. Taylor has two Browns draped over him. But his power and drive took him into the end zone. Packers won 21-20 because they forced a fumble on the Browns last stitch drive. Did we have a Jim Taylor who could do that last year? Did we have a defense that could strip sack the QB in the final minute?
 
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Beautiful. Yes, A KNOWN DEFENDER. Someone we seem to need every August. But had Rodgers got to the 2,3,or 4 I believe LaFleur DOES go for it. The odds improve at least three fold at that distance. All you have to do is beat one defender for one second and it is a bang bang play. Heck, you can use a FB faking a block like Kuhn used to do. Back in 1966 the Packers trailed Cleveland 20-14 with just over a minute to go. It was 4th and goal at the 8. If they do not get in the Browns run out the clock. Instead of going in the end zone Starr hits Taylor on a curl underneath. Taylor has two Browns draped over him. But his power and drive took him into the end zone. Packers won 21-20 because they forced a fumble on the Browns last stitch drive. Did we have a Jim Taylor who could do that last year? Did we have a defense that could strip sack the QB in the final minute?
Good stuff.
Imo. We are 1 stellar DL short of putting it all together. Does that mean we can’t function with Heflin or Lancaster or Keke etc..? Just 1 of those guys needs to be challenged to be our clear #2 alongside Kenny. My guess is Slaton just might provide some nasty upfront, my bigger concern is he’s physically limited due to size. But we desperately need someone not named Clark to start blowing up the OL.

I still believe with 4 timeouts we needed to do 1 Running play. I’m 75% sure Dillon gets us 4+ and we burn a TO. He was averaging over 6 a carry that day.
 

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No. He could not set one up in the corner. Bucs defense is ready for that on 4th and 10. The only receiver he might find would have been at the 5 and would be tackled. Chances he scrambles and to avoid the sack puts one up in desperation. If he finds Tonyan or Lewis it would be on 1st or 2nd down when the Bucs are covering the run. The chances of hitting the TD and making the 2 pointer were less than 1 in 10.

Lewis has the height advantage over those Bucs defenders and I say let him go up and get one.

Either way, all of these are lame ridiculous arguments against going for it on 4th down and not a single damn one is going to change my mind. I don't give a damn if the odds were 1/1000. Go for it.
 

gopkrs

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Lewis has the height advantage over those Bucs defenders and I say let him go up and get one.

Either way, all of these are lame ridiculous arguments against going for it on 4th down and not a single damn one is going to change my mind. I don't give a damn if the odds were 1/1000. Go for it.
Sooooo, should Dallas have gone for the 1st down?
 

milani

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Sooooo, should Dallas have gone for the 1st down?
Good analogy. And even if by some token we tie it at 31-31 Brady still has time to go down and do what he did. You have to have a D that can stop. And you cannot leave points on the field like the Cowboys did when you are up against a great team.
 

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So did you come away from last night's game thinking.................
1. Tampa has some chinks in their armor they can be beat........................... or
2. Man are they good, no-one is going to be able to stop that offense.
 

gopkrs

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So did you come away from last night's game thinking.................
1. Tampa has some chinks in their armor they can be beat........................... or
2. Man are they good, no-one is going to be able to stop that offense.
Foremost I came away thinking man, Brady is throwing good. And Antonio Brown kind of looked like he did in Pit. Very dangerous. Dallas moved the ball. But not on the ground. I only watched the first half.
 

PackerfaninCarolina

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Sooooo, should Dallas have gone for the 1st down?

On which series? If you mean passing up the FG on their final series probably not. There was another scenario though 4th and goal from the 3 where yes McCarthy should have gone for it. But hey, he didn't do that in Seattle, and didn't go for 2 against Arizona, so no shocker.
 

PackerfaninCarolina

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Good analogy. And even if by some token we tie it at 31-31 Brady still has time to go down and do what he did. You have to have a D that can stop. And you cannot leave points on the field like the Cowboys did when you are up against a great team.

No it isn't a good analogy, and it's only week 1 and that Dallas FG gave them the lead. They weren't down by 8 needing to stop Brady and go down the field again and score a TD.

Like I said, point where I would have disagreed with their call was when they trailed 21-16 and had it 4th and goal. That was a dumb pitch play they called on that 3rd down, and of course old MM did what he always does in passing up a golden 4th down opportunity. Thank god he'll screw up Dallas with those and not us anymore.
 

milani

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No it isn't a good analogy, and it's only week 1 and that Dallas FG gave them the lead. They weren't down by 8 needing to stop Brady and go down the field again and score a TD.

Like I said, point where I would have disagreed with their call was when they trailed 21-16 and had it 4th and goal. That was a dumb pitch play they called on that 3rd down, and of course old MM did what he always does in passing up a golden 4th down opportunity. Thank god he'll screw up Dallas with those and not us anymore.
I would gladly tell Cowboy fans that MM has a history of poor coaching and decision making in the final two minutes of both the first half and the second one. Although he has gotten bailed out by his QBs pundits say he gets outcoached. I say it is bad judgment. Too often he overestimates his defense and underestimates his opponent. He stops the clock when he should run it down. And he let's it run down when he should stop it. Had it not been for the Bucs fumble at the goal line that game was over right then.
 
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Lewis has the height advantage over those Bucs defenders and I say let him go up and get one.

Either way, all of these are lame ridiculous arguments against going for it on 4th down and not a single damn one is going to change my mind. I don't give a damn if the odds were 1/1000. Go for it.
I disagree with you on 4th and 8. My argument the 3 plays previous. We got zero yards on 3 tries. We had 3 timeouts plus a 2 minute. Why not try to run at least once. We’d been successful to that point. The time wasn’t as much a factor as scoring a TD. Had we simply gotten inside the 4? Would we have tried it then? We left the ball in the deep weeds on a hill 100 feet from the hole with a crosswind.

I watched many professional NFL athletes debate that play and not 1 of them said it would’ve been smart. That did sway my opinion some. If you miss that pretty much game over instantly because of limited time. Now had they had 4:15 on the clock? Totally different odds.

I respect you’re boldness though.

The only reason I’d side with you? is you get (possibly) 2 chances. You get a bonus chance if you will.

1. 4th down (guaranteed chance)
2. Play field position if you get stopped at the 3 yard line etc.. get your 3 n out. Then you’d get the ball back near midfield with 1 minute no timeouts. Kicking a FG gave us no guaranteed chance at a TD try.
 
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I love the confidence. Wouldn't it be great to have him on our team. Pair him up with Jaire's confidence and skills and we'd have a devastating defense.
Love the confidence. I know he says that. But if you rewatch that play he gets picked by his own guy covering MVS? just inside the goal line. Idc how fast you are. You lose .5 sec minimum and Aaron already has momentum at the 10. No chance does White even touch Rodgers before the 5 yard line and if Rodgers runs for the sideline he makes the 3-4 yard line safely running out of bounds. White would have to run a 4.3 sec 40 through bodies to catch Aaron outside the 5. I respect White, but he got beat by the inadvertent pik I’d put $500 on that in redo and Id regret not gambling more.

That said I do agree Aaron would get crushed angling at the goal line. But a sideline angle gets him 5 yards. Maybe 6 safely with Rodgers reach forward
Also, No way does MLF take a FG on 4th n 3 yards for the tie. Dillon would get you 1-2 yards 75% chance. Leave Brady at the 1 and send 6
 
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El Guapo

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The problem that I still have with all of the FG doubters, is that the Packers were helpless on 1st down, 2nd down, and 3rd down. Three straight incompletions. I understand the logic of going for 7 points, but in that situation, I am still convinced that settling for 3pts was the smartest move because the offense proved incapable of moving the ball on the previous three downs.

I don't have an issue with LeFluer's decision to take the FG at that point. I suppose my only issue is that he (or Rodgers) threw the ball three times after three running plays had gotten them down to the 6 yard line.
 

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Long post alert.

Before we get cranked up with the 2021 season, I finally had the stomach to re-watch the NFCCG vs Tampa.

I just cannot get over how many mistakes and uncharacteristic events went into it.

You've got:
- The King blunder
- Two Jones fumbles
- A dropped TD pass by Davante and on the same drive lost where he was in the end zone and didn't get his feet down for another TD
- Rodgers INT
- Redmond drops an INT
- St. Brown drops the 2 point conversion
- MLF choosing to kick the FG instead of going for it

Along with that, there were awful protection issues throughout most of the game. Big time issues in the secondary with Brady picking on Sullivan repeatedly on whomever he was covering, and the obvious King blunders that were game changing.

Then there's the question of why wasn't Dillon utilized more? He abused their front on the few carries he got.

I honestly think the biggest killers in this game were not being able to cash on the 3rd possession of the game where Davante screwed two plays up, then the Rodgers INT, then the King blunder, then the Jones blunder right out of the half where it gifted the Bucs another TD.

Think about it...that was 18 points on plays that were completely within our control. And 14 points on consecutive possessions with the King/Jones debacle.

And still only lost the game by 5 points.

Now...

Looking forward, I'm hoping a lot of these issues have been remedied.

The issues with the secondary:
Hopefully at least one of Stokes/SJC will be able to take over the #2 CB slot, thus sliding others down. And if nothing else, surely MLF has an understanding with Barry on how he wants to play situational defense. This is of course the first DC that he's been able to hire since he's been with the Packers. I can promise situational stuff like that was discussed. That should be a net positive by default that we won't get utter stupidity at the end of the half like we did in this game.

The issues with protection:
Hopefully Bakhtiari comes back at close to 100% of what he was before. Losing #69 was such a huge blow and made such a huge difference in multiple drives of that game that stalled out because Rodgers got blindsided. He got pressure from many angles, especially lots of issues on the right side with Wagner and Lucas friggin Patrick, but it's going to be such a luxury to have the island LT that doesn't need help protecting AR's blindside.

The slight issues with the running game:
I'm not sure the Packers will make the mistake again of not utilizing Dillon more in cold temperatures. He's a battering ram that no one wants to deal with in those situations. Then you've got the dynamic abilities of Jones and Hill. I think our running backs are even more lethal this year than last. Williams was a nice player, but the Packers are now better.

The issues with the over reliance on Davante:
I honestly think the receiver room has turned into, dare I say a strength for the Packers. IF Amari Rodgers can contribute in a reasonable way this season, and Cobb stays healthy, I think it could be special. Because you already know what you're going to get from Davante, and if what I'm hearing about MVS is true, he's really rounded the corner and could be ready to explode. And then Lazard of course just provides steadiness all throughout the playbook.

I think this team has the opportunity to be great this season. The pieces are in place for the Packers to get it done. We've got flaws, no doubt. Just like all teams. But many of the issues that plagued the Packers last year have been addressed. We'll see how it all comes to fruition.


What strikes me after reading your post is that, despite all that went wrong (and, as you've pointed out, it was a lot), Green Bay was just one play away from winning that game.

Encouraging and heart-breaking all at the same time.
 

milani

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So that drive could end 31-23, 31-26, 31-29, 31-31. In any case our D would have to force a Bucs punt. Now if the game was tied they attack. If not they try to move the chains. Would have been interesting. But had the 58 previous minutes been different we would have been in a better situation.
 

pacmaniac

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The problem that I still have with all of the FG doubters, is that the Packers were helpless on 1st down, 2nd down, and 3rd down. Three straight incompletions. I understand the logic of going for 7 points, but in that situation, I am still convinced that settling for 3pts was the smartest move because the offense proved incapable of moving the ball on the previous three downs.

Not just those 3 downs. Also the 3 downs inside the 10 yard line in the first half, where Rodgers threw 3 incompletions.
 

captainWIMM

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The problem that I still have with all of the FG doubters, is that the Packers were helpless on 1st down, 2nd down, and 3rd down. Three straight incompletions. I understand the logic of going for 7 points, but in that situation, I am still convinced that settling for 3pts was the smartest move because the offense proved incapable of moving the ball on the previous three downs.

I don't have an issue with LeFluer's decision to take the FG at that point. I suppose my only issue is that he (or Rodgers) threw the ball three times after three running plays had gotten them down to the 6 yard line.

I would have definitely preferred the Packers to go for it on fourth down as they didn't benefit by kicking the field goal at all. They still needed to stop the Bucs offense and score a touchdown afterwards.
 

gopkrs

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I would have definitely preferred the Packers to go for it on fourth down as they didn't benefit by kicking the field goal at all. They still needed to stop the Bucs offense and score a touchdown afterwards.
They would have had to stop the Bucs in any case. And not having to make the two point conversion is a big deal. It came down to stopping the bucs. And it came down to a 3rd down play with enough time on the clock.
 

captainWIMM

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They would have had to stop the Bucs in any case. And not having to make the two point conversion is a big deal. It came down to stopping the bucs. And it came down to a 3rd down play with enough time on the clock.

My point is that kicking the field goal in that situation didn't improve the Packers chances of winning the game. Aside of scoring a touchdown on the fourth down play they would have needed to stop the Bucs and score a TD on the following drive anyway.

Therefore I would have liked to go for it.
 

El Guapo

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Sometimes maintaining scoring momentum is a factor. It can also be demoralizing to go down that far and get stopped on the goal line. Straight line thinking isn't the only way to do it.
 

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The 4 scenarios that could have led to a win.

1. Kick field goal. Stop Tampa. Score Touchdown. Win.
2. Get TD on 4th down, convert 2 pt. attempt. Stop Tampa. Go to O.T.
3. Get TD on 4th down, miss 2pt. conversion. Stop Tampa. Kick FG for the win.
4. Get stopped on 4th down. Stop Tampa. Score a TD and convert 2 pt. to get into O.T.

In all 4 scenarios GB had to both score a Tuddy and stop Brady. To me the odds are higher of making the FG than making a 2 pt. conversion. Plus the FG gets you the W the 2 pt. conversion gets you O.T.
I am not saying it was definitively the correct call, but by no means was it a no brainer to go for it.
 

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