One Player Defense

[Wi. Mike now in Florida]

Bottom line - it's very, very hard to predict what injuries will happen and how they will affect a team.

I agree, and injuries prevented many teams from qualifying for the SB.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I agree, and injuries prevented many teams from qualifying for the SB.

Yep, the Lions are a good example.

I like teams with a solid D to win SBs. So I think the Pats will beat the hags.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Losing Wyatt, Gary being ineffective, LVN missing games due to injury and having to play backups and PS players will weaken anyone's DL.

Yep, and all those things happened to the Packers. Plus Kraft, and Reed and Watson were only available for part of the regular season.

I'm optimistic for the Packers for 2026. Gluten has to successfully remake the CB group (he did it at S), and he needs to find a starting DL. That's not an easy ask.....

Any idea who the top FAs will be at these positions. I hope for a miracle, but don't expect much from the draft at these positions.

 

[Heyjoe4]

While injuries played a role, it's fair to put some of that on Hafley, who rarely dialed up pressure until Parsons was out of the picture. He got away from some of the things they did so well in his first year, which led to a lot of takeaways. He relied too much on 4-man rushes, which leaves a lot of bodies in coverage, but this only works IF you can actually generate pressure rushing 4. He refused to acknowledge the shortcomings of the pass rush and stubbornly stuck to his guns until he was forced to once Micah went down.
Count me as one guy who isn't entirely heartbroken over his departure. With or without Micah, we need a pressure based defense that can amplify the threat of our best players (Micah, D-watt, Coop, and McKinney) and protect our weakest link (DBs).

Well said. Hafley got away from a lot of what worked in the prior season. It's almost negligent to not try and pressue the QB more with Parsons. Hopefully Gannon fixes that. It requires smart risk taking, and Hafley was unwilling to do much of it this past season. I still like Hafley a lot, but maybe this change is for the better.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Hafley may not have rushed more than 4, because he may have felt like they would get torched. The CB group was terrible this year, he probably felt he needed more guys in coverage to have a chance.

That's a sad reality. I really hope Gluten has early success in FA at bringing in a corner, ideally two.

 

[milani]

That's a sad reality. I really hope Gluten has early success in FA at bringing in a corner, ideally two.

But it has some truth to it. In WK 1 against Detroit Dan Campbell said our defense forces you to attack underneath and if you do not catch the ball or the throw is off you have to take the slow route. The Packers succeeded by doing that and even stopped the run. The Packers clearly won the line of scrimmage that day on both sides. Detroit was one of the most powerful offenses in both 2024 and 2025. Now how we implement that depends on the opponent's. QB. Is he a scrambler like Caleb? Is he a pocket passer like Goff or Flacco? Or is he a crafty check off play action veteran like Stafford?

 

[DoURant]

But it has some truth to it. In WK 1 against Detroit Dan Campbell said our defense forces you to attack underneath and if you do not catch the ball or the throw is off you have to take the slow route. The Packers succeeded by doing that and even stopped the run. The Packers clearly won the line of scrimmage that day on both sides. Detroit was one of the most powerful offenses in both 2024 and 2025. Now how we implement that depends on the opponent's. QB. Is he a scrambler like Caleb? Is he a pocket passer like Goff or Flacco? Or is he a crafty check off play action veteran like Stafford?

One thing about Caleb Williams, he is elusive, and really good out of the pocket. His rookie year 2024, he was sacked 68 times.... in 2025 only 24.

 

[gopkrs]

Their o line was considerably improved

 

[DoURant]

Their o line was considerably improved

I agree, but so was his awareness. I don't know how many times I saw him escape what I thought was going to be a for sure sack.

 

[pacmaniac]

I like teams with a solid D to win SBs. So I think the Pats will beat the hags.

Both defenses are good, but the Seahawks was the #1 D this season.

 

[milani]

I agree, but so was his awareness. I don't know how many times I saw him escape what I thought was going to be a for sure sack.

He learned how to escape and throw the ball out of bounds. A few intentional grounding, but otherwise he uses his feet.

 

[Heyjoe4]

But it has some truth to it. In WK 1 against Detroit Dan Campbell said our defense forces you to attack underneath and if you do not catch the ball or the throw is off you have to take the slow route. The Packers succeeded by doing that and even stopped the run. The Packers clearly won the line of scrimmage that day on both sides. Detroit was one of the most powerful offenses in both 2024 and 2025. Now how we implement that depends on the opponent's. QB. Is he a scrambler like Caleb? Is he a pocket passer like Goff or Flacco? Or is he a crafty check off play action veteran like Stafford?

Yeah milani thanks - I think Ty posted some stats that the CBs were a lot better on paper than they looked on the field. To his credit, I think Nixon was 2nd in PBUs in the league. Of course he also commits one truly dumb personal foul - seems like every game. And Parsons changes the way every position on D is played - when he plays that is.

And the team will get better through the draft and FA and by getting guys healthy. I expect them to field a SB-worthy team next year, nothing less.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Both defenses are good, but the Seahawks was the #1 D this season.

Yeah that's why I was surprised the Rams put up 27 on the Hags. And the Pats D held Denver to 7 points. Nix didn't play but Stidham played well enough to win.

It should be a good game to watch with such dominant defenses. Well, as good as a SB can be without the Packers.....

What's hard to imagine is the Pats in a SB without Brady. I think the last time that happened was 97 against the Packers. The Pats QB was Drew Something. I can't even remember his name.......

 

[Heyjoe4]

@Wi. Mike now in Florida
Good question.

So my interpretation of our move was this.

When we flipped to Micah Parson we also turned over Kenny Clark in trade. I think that was a bigger blow in the interior than many of us fans thought.

We were also missing our guy who was on absolute fire down the last 7 games of 2024 gone. Brenton Cox Jr averaged 35% snaps starting week 11 last season. He was probably our most efficient disruptive depth player and he was due for an increase imo. So he goes out injured against Detroit week 1 and isn’t seen again until out 2nd Chicago meeting? In his 3rd game back we unleashed him for a career high 44 snaps and Voila… he regained his old form. This was not against backups but against MN starters.
1 Sack 2 Knockdowns, 3 QB pressures and 1 TFL.

Then we lose Lukas Van Ness in our Week 4 contest. He tries his best to return end of November for a couple snaps and it sets him back 3 more weeks into mid December. So heres a Starter poised to rise his missing effectively more than 1/2 a season.

The following Week on Thanksgiving, Devonte Wyatt gets injured and isn’t seen again lost for the season. He missed ALL of December/January.

So now we took a thin DL and had to sign a pair of DL from outside teams
on Dec 3. Jordan Riley and Quinton Bohanna. Riley is pushed into action immediately and splitting snaps without 6th RD Rookie, Warren Brinson.. until.. You guessed it Riley injures Week 16 and its season ending.

Now during all this craziness, our $42Mil per year HOF pas rusher goes out with an ACL during Week 14.

So not only is Kenny Clark gone. Micah Parsons his trade replacement is gone. Wyatt gone, Cox coming back slowly Week 16, Lukas coming off tweaking his ankle and Stackhouse out with the Flu!

At one time I think I saw Jsire Alexander dressed as #99 playing shade 0 Tech alongside Wooden.

Oh I forgot about 5th RD linebacker PUP, Collin Oliver. I think he was abducted by Aliens and dropped back off Week 18?

Point being you needed to have Turbo Excel Spreadsheet to chart the number of guys going down or being on a snap count. I’m not sure what happened to our 4th Rounder Barryn Sorrell, but he only played more than 20% snaps in Week 7, Week 18. So I’m not sure what that was all about?

So out of like 7 players from our stretch run in 2024.. we had Wooden and Brooks relatively healthy. Now I like Karl he’s a good substitute Pass Rusher. But when Karl Brooks leads your team with 60% of available D starter snaps?? it’s time to WONDER WHAT THE H! going on around here!

Where is Sam Kinison when you need him!!!

Great summary of the huge # of injuries on D. Add to that losing Kraft, and Reed and Watson not playing anywhere near 17 games, Jacobs hurt, and yeah, injuries took a toll.

 

[El Guapo]

Then Micah P. got hurt.
So, the question is what happen to our original defensive line that we were building before M.P.??

Yeah I trust thge team's assessment of Slaton, and that was to let him go. And yeah, there was no way to know that Clark would be gone and Wyatt injured at the worst possible time.

To me, this is it. From 2024 to 2025 we lost 2 of our 3 best interior DL: TJ Slayton & Kenny Clark.

Then during the season we lost Devonte Wyatt. There went our top 3 interior DL. On top of that add in that we lost LVN and Parsons on the edges. No scheme can circumvent that without a ton of luck.

The defensive failures were less on Hafley and more on the players themselves and Gutekunst. The GM took a calculated gamble and lost. If he had gambled while still holding tens of millions back in salary cap, I would be mad. He gambled in a bunch of areas with the salary cap (Micah, Banks, Hobbs) and went 1 for 3. It's not like he didn't try, but either way he failed. At least it wasn't from inaction but the wrong actions...a slight moral victory. He needs to do better in that respect.

 

[milani]

Yeah that's why I was surprised the Rams put up 27 on the Hags. And the Pats D held Denver to 7 points. Nix didn't play but Stidham played well enough to win.

It should be a good game to watch with such dominant defenses. Well, as good as a SB can be without the Packers.....

What's hard to imagine is the Pats in a SB without Brady. I think the last time that happened was 97 against the Packers. The Pats QB was Drew Something. I can't even remember his name.......

Drew Bledsole. He got to know Reggie White well in that one.
But the Rams also put up a huge number against the Seahawks in December losing by 1 in OT due to a 2 point conversion. Both teams are strong on either side of the ball and the Packers, even at full strength, would be obvious underdogs.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Drew Bledsole. He got to know Reggie White well in that one.
But the Rams also put up a huge number against the Seahawks in December losing by 1 in OT due to a 2 point conversion. Both teams are strong on either side of the ball and the Packers, even at full strength, would be obvious underdogs.

Thanks for jogging my memory. Brady came just after Bledsoe, and I think won his first SB with the Pats in 99 or 2000.

 

[milani]

Thanks for jogging my memory. Brady came just after Bledsoe, and I think won his first SB with the Pats in 99 or 2000.

2001.

 

[n4t]

Why does the OP think we had a good D line before we got Micah?

That is a completely untrue statement. Our Interior, even with Clark, has been weak for some time. And the Edge play has been declining as well. Repeatedly drafting in the end of round 1, among other things, is a big challenge. It forces teams to pick and choose where they can improve - along with of course the talent that is actually available. Some orgs DEFINITELY prioritize the trench positions more than the Packers do. Our Lines are basically 'good enough' at best. You can't prioritize EVERYTHING, and you can only work with the opportunities provided. Simple. Very simple.

Having one strong DL/DE as a cornerstone is an age-old concept. Left tackle. Cornerback. All apply. Did you ever hear of Reggie White?

 

[OldSchool101]

One thing about Caleb Williams, he is elusive, and really good out of the pocket. His rookie year 2024, he was sacked 68 times.... in 2025 only 24.

No question he’s allusive. I’d just add that Chicago rebuilt their interior OL with literally 3 notable upgrades at both Guard spots and Center. Calen has it made with weapons. First of all they hit on 7th Rounder Moningai, kid is lightning in a bottle. Swift, Kmet, Loveland, DJ Moore, Rome Odunze and Luther Burden III.
That Offense is supercharged with high draft picks or large FA signings everywhere, including QB. This is the result of sucking for years and years. You just eventually build an arsenal and then have a $50Mil extra to plop into FA because of Caleb’s Rookie contract. Plop they did. $95Mil annual just in outside FA contracts last year alone.


It’s just noticeable what that did (along with some player growth) for Their OL. This is partly why I think Green Bay needs to upgrade. Go out and either sign an upper echelon Center or draft one in Day 2 to take over for Sean. We don’t need (or couldn’t anyway) to go on a spending frenzy. We do need to take 1 or 2 positions and upgrade. If we get a Probowl Alternate level quality Center, plus upgrade 1 Guard position we’d be much better. I’d even get a stellar blocking TE in Day 3 and assume Marshawn is out and draft a Penn State RB etc. Plus this WR draft class is thick with quality throughout. Go get a WR by RD4-5 like we did with Doubs.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Why does the OP think we had a good D line before we got Micah?

That is a completely untrue statement. Our Interior, even with Clark, has been weak for some time. And the Edge play has been declining as well. Repeatedly drafting in the end of round 1, among other things, is a big challenge. It forces teams to pick and choose where they can improve - along with of course the talent that is actually available. Some orgs DEFINITELY prioritize the trench positions more than the Packers do. Our Lines are basically 'good enough' at best. You can't prioritize EVERYTHING, and you can only work with the opportunities provided. Simple. Very simple.

Having one strong DL/DE as a cornerstone is an age-old concept. Left tackle. Cornerback. All apply. Did you ever hear of Reggie White?

A "once-in-a-generation talent" - like Reggie White and Micah Parsons - can certainly elevate the play of others. Even so, one person can't carry a team (ask Rodgers). The very presence of White and now Parsons forces opponents to account for the player, and that's a big deal.

As for the Packers D prior to Parsons - I agree with you. It solid, but certainly not "elite". McKinney, Williams, Cooper are all v good players. The CB group is weak, and other than Wyatt, the DL is inconsistent. As for the other Edge guys - LVN, Gary, Engabare - all good, none great.

Parsons did make the entire defense better. But no one player can make a unit "elite" on his own. In addition to getting Wyatt and Parsons back healthy, and assuming LVN beats the injury bug, Gluten still has holes to fill on D. He needs two starting CBs and a starting DL. Easy to say........

 

[OldSchool101]

A "once-in-a-generation talent" - like Reggie White and Micah Parsons - can certainly elevate the play of others. Even so, one person can't carry a team (ask Rodgers). The very presence of White and now Parsons forces opponents to account for the player, and that's a big deal.

As for the Packers D prior to Parsons - I agree with you. It solid, but certainly not "elite". McKinney, Williams, Cooper are all v good players. The CB group is weak, and other than Wyatt, the DL is inconsistent. As for the other Edge guys - LVN, Gary, Engabare - all good, none great.

Parsons did make the entire defense better. But no one player can make a unit "elite" on his own. In addition to getting Wyatt and Parsons back healthy, and assuming LVN beats the injury bug, Gluten still has holes to fill on D. He needs two starting CBs and a starting DL. Easy to say........

So much of this I agree with. Where we might disagree is needing both CB positions replaced. This is just my opinion but I see us with perimeter level CB2 Nixon and CB3 Valentine, who can be a CB2 “actor”. Meaning he’s going to hold down the fort, but never push the needle and reset enemy lines either. He’s wonderful for a 7th Rounder so I’m not getting down on the kid I’m just stating he won the role but has definitive ceiling limitations.
Our new Pass game Coordinator, Bobby Babich, is known to have taken similar style players and created remarkable results. When you consider he beat out Seattle, Houston and all the top Pass protection teams it’s nothing to sneeze at. Can’t do better than #1 in the NFL by 5 yards a game. So the ringing endorsement paired with BOTH our starters are In FA in 2027 spells 1 thing. You’ll likely lose one at minimum + we really should supply our new staff with resources at or above budget.

CB isn’t a glaring need at the exact moment past depth imo. Yet around the next season bend it’ll be like the Sun when it’s on the horizon and you’re driving into it and hitting it at the wrong time of day. We’ve all been there! This CB draft is both thick and talented especially across our specific draft placing. It’s near perfect timing for us to grab a pair OR
go 1 FA + 1 Rookie

If I am the fictitious GM (close your eyes!) I’m pushing Valentine with a known quantity FA for competition and bolstering depth with better talent. At minimum I’m drafting a Day 2 CB if
I can’t find one in FA.

 

[lambeaulambo]

two d tackles bring em in. corner needed badly. edge somewhere. center. another hb that isnt a china doll. wr stacked lb above avg if tom isnt out, need a LT. Get a K in camp and take a hard look. a back up qb like minshew would work too w this offense.

 

[Heyjoe4]

So much of this I agree with. Where we might disagree is needing both CB positions replaced. This is just my opinion but I see us with perimeter level CB2 Nixon and CB3 Valentine, who can be a CB2 “actor”. Meaning he’s going to hold down the fort, but never push the needle and reset enemy lines either. He’s wonderful for a 7th Rounder so I’m not getting down on the kid I’m just stating he won the role but has definitive ceiling limitations.
Our new Pass game Coordinator, Bobby Babich, is known to have taken similar style players and created remarkable results. When you consider he beat out Seattle, Houston and all the top Pass protection teams it’s nothing to sneeze at. Can’t do better than #1 in the NFL by 5 yards a game. So the ringing endorsement paired with BOTH our starters are In FA in 2027 spells 1 thing. You’ll likely lose one at minimum + we really should supply our new staff with resources at or above budget.

CB isn’t a glaring need at the exact moment past depth imo. Yet around the next season bend it’ll be like the Sun when it’s on the horizon and you’re driving into it and hitting it at the wrong time of day. We’ve all been there! This CB draft is both thick and talented especially across our specific draft placing. It’s near perfect timing for us to grab a pair OR
go 1 FA + 1 Rookie

If I am the fictitious GM (close your eyes!) I’m pushing Valentine with a known quantity FA for competition and bolstering depth with better talent. At minimum I’m drafting a Day 2 CB if
I can’t find one in FA.

After watching an otherwise dreadful SB last night, it was an opportunity to see how elite CBs play. Gonzalez of the Pats made two incredible PBUs, and the Hags CBs smothered the Pats' WRs in press coverage and even got to the QB on occasional blitzes. It was a clinic in elite CB play.

The Packers current CB room wouldn't have a single starter on either of those teams, and they probably wouldn't even be considered for depth. IMO the Packer's current CB group is horrible.

Getting two starters for the group is a reach, but certainly desirable. One is a "must have".

But OS, I don't agree with "CB isn't a glaring need at the exact moment past depth imo". The entire CB group group is the definition of a glaring need with Nixon, Valentine, and Hobbs the "top" three CBs. Nixon and Valentine would make decent backups, but that's it. Hobbs would probably play well in just the slot, and as a backup.