One Player Defense

[Wi. Mike now in Florida]

So, we had our defense line last fall ready to set the world on fire.
Then we got Micah Parsons and everybody danced around the second coming of Christ.

Then Micah P. got hurt.
So, the question is what happen to our original defensive line that we were building before M.P.??

Defensive lines shouldn't be built around one player.
Isn't football a team effect??

 

[Heyjoe4]

So, we had our defense line last fall ready to set the world on fire.
Then we got Micah Parsons and everybody danced around the second coming of Christ.

Then Micah P. got hurt.
So, the question is what happen to our original defensive line that we were building before M.P.??

Offensive lines shouldn't be built around one player.
Isn't football a team effect??

Outside of Parsons, there isn't a single, reliable pass rusher. It might be scheme, but Hafley wasn't reluctant to rush.

Gary is likely gone next season. That leaves LVN and a few other average DEs. Gluten needs to address this position, and CBs in the offseason.

I thought Cooper was going to emerge as a threat to QBs from the LB position. He's fast and he knows how to tackle.

But absent offseason changes, this isn't an elite D. Maybe top 10, barely. Hoping it gets turned around next season.

 

[Pugger]

So, we had our defense line last fall ready to set the world on fire.
Then we got Micah Parsons and everybody danced around the second coming of Christ.

Then Micah P. got hurt.
So, the question is what happen to our original defensive line that we were building before M.P.??

Offensive lines shouldn't be built around one player.
Isn't football a team effect??

Losing Wyatt, Gary being ineffective, LVN missing games due to injury and having to play backups and PS players will weaken anyone's DL.

 

[Packphin]

So, we had our defense line last fall ready to set the world on fire.
Then we got Micah Parsons and everybody danced around the second coming of Christ.

Then Micah P. got hurt.
So, the question is what happen to our original defensive line that we were building before M.P.??

Offensive lines shouldn't be built around one player.
Isn't football a team effect??

While injuries played a role, it's fair to put some of that on Hafley, who rarely dialed up pressure until Parsons was out of the picture. He got away from some of the things they did so well in his first year, which led to a lot of takeaways. He relied too much on 4-man rushes, which leaves a lot of bodies in coverage, but this only works IF you can actually generate pressure rushing 4. He refused to acknowledge the shortcomings of the pass rush and stubbornly stuck to his guns until he was forced to once Micah went down.
Count me as one guy who isn't entirely heartbroken over his departure. With or without Micah, we need a pressure based defense that can amplify the threat of our best players (Micah, D-watt, Coop, and McKinney) and protect our weakest link (DBs).

 

[DoURant]

While injuries played a role, it's fair to put some of that on Hafley, who rarely dialed up pressure until Parsons was out of the picture. He got away from some of the things they did so well in his first year, which led to a lot of takeaways. He relied too much on 4-man rushes, which leaves a lot of bodies in coverage, but this only works IF you can actually generate pressure rushing 4. He refused to acknowledge the shortcomings of the pass rush and stubbornly stuck to his guns until he was forced to once Micah went down.
Count me as one guy who isn't entirely heartbroken over his departure. With or without Micah, we need a pressure based defense that can amplify the threat of our best players (Micah, D-watt, Coop, and McKinney) and protect our weakest link (DBs).

Hafley may not have rushed more than 4, because he may have felt like they would get torched. The CB group was terrible this year, he probably felt he needed more guys in coverage to have a chance.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

So, we had our defense line last fall ready to set the world on fire.
Then we got Micah Parsons and everybody danced around the second coming of Christ.

Then Micah P. got hurt.
So, the question is what happen to our original defensive line that we were building before M.P.??

Defensive lines shouldn't be built around one player.
Isn't football a team effect??

The packers have a GM that’s not very good at drafting dlinemen. Every year (prior to the season) fans get pumped up on hopium only to be disappointed that the high draft pick wasn’t worth it.

 

[milani]

Hafley may not have rushed more than 4, because he may have felt like they would get torched. The CB group was terrible this year, he probably felt he needed more guys in coverage to have a chance.

That is a good reason. Capers tried both ways and got burned both ways.

 

[gopkrs]

That is a good reason. Capers tried both ways and got burned both ways.

Guess you were a Capers fan. You just said he couldn't have won with what he had. I thought he sucked in big games.

 

[milani]

Guess you were a Capers fan. You just said he couldn't have won with what he had. I thought he sucked in big games.

He could not win with what he had...AND he made it even worse in big games.

 

[OldSchool101]

So, we had our defense line last fall ready to set the world on fire.
Then we got Micah Parsons and everybody danced around the second coming of Christ.

Then Micah P. got hurt.
So, the question is what happen to our original defensive line that we were building before M.P.??

Defensive lines shouldn't be built around one player.
Isn't football a team effect??

@Wi. Mike now in Florida
Good question.

So my interpretation of our move was this.

When we flipped to Micah Parson we also turned over Kenny Clark in trade. I think that was a bigger blow in the interior than many of us fans thought.

We were also missing our guy who was on absolute fire down the last 7 games of 2024 gone. Brenton Cox Jr averaged 35% snaps starting week 11 last season. He was probably our most efficient disruptive depth player and he was due for an increase imo. So he goes out injured against Detroit week 1 and isn’t seen again until out 2nd Chicago meeting? In his 3rd game back we unleashed him for a career high 44 snaps and Voila… he regained his old form. This was not against backups but against MN starters.
1 Sack 2 Knockdowns, 3 QB pressures and 1 TFL.

Then we lose Lukas Van Ness in our Week 4 contest. He tries his best to return end of November for a couple snaps and it sets him back 3 more weeks into mid December. So heres a Starter poised to rise his missing effectively more than 1/2 a season.

The following Week on Thanksgiving, Devonte Wyatt gets injured and isn’t seen again lost for the season. He missed ALL of December/January.

So now we took a thin DL and had to sign a pair of DL from outside teams
on Dec 3. Jordan Riley and Quinton Bohanna. Riley is pushed into action immediately and splitting snaps without 6th RD Rookie, Warren Brinson.. until.. You guessed it Riley injures Week 16 and its season ending.

Now during all this craziness, our $42Mil per year HOF pas rusher goes out with an ACL during Week 14.

So not only is Kenny Clark gone. Micah Parsons his trade replacement is gone. Wyatt gone, Cox coming back slowly Week 16, Lukas coming off tweaking his ankle and Stackhouse out with the Flu!

At one time I think I saw Jsire Alexander dressed as #99 playing shade 0 Tech alongside Wooden.

Oh I forgot about 5th RD linebacker PUP, Collin Oliver. I think he was abducted by Aliens and dropped back off Week 18?

Point being you needed to have Turbo Excel Spreadsheet to chart the number of guys going down or being on a snap count. I’m not sure what happened to our 4th Rounder Barryn Sorrell, but he only played more than 20% snaps in Week 7, Week 18. So I’m not sure what that was all about?

So out of like 7 players from our stretch run in 2024.. we had Wooden and Brooks relatively healthy. Now I like Karl he’s a good substitute Pass Rusher. But when Karl Brooks leads your team with 60% of available D starter snaps?? it’s time to WONDER WHAT THE H! going on around here!

Where is Sam Kinison when you need him!!!

 

[tynimiller]

So, we had our defense line last fall ready to set the world on fire.
Then we got Micah Parsons and everybody danced around the second coming of Christ.

Then Micah P. got hurt.
So, the question is what happen to our original defensive line that we were building before M.P.??

Defensive lines shouldn't be built around one player.
Isn't football a team effect??

Quite easy and anyone with basic knowledge of our roster. Our line lost our most sure thing in Clark and our ascending guy that was doing awesome till he was lost to injury in Wyatt....

Brooks, Wooden and others are best used in rotation not expected to carry....

 

[Wi. Mike now in Florida]

@Wi. Mike now in Florida
Good question.

So my interpretation of our move was this.

When we flipped to Micah Parson we also turned over Kenny Clark in trade. I think that was a bigger blow in the interior than many of us fans thought.

We were also missing our guy who was on absolute fire down the last 7 games of 2024 gone. Brenton Cox Jr averaged 35% snaps starting week 11 last season. He was probably our most efficient disruptive depth player and he was due for an increase imo. So he goes out injured against Detroit week 1 and isn’t seen again until out 2nd Chicago meeting? In his 3rd game back we unleashed him for a career high 44 snaps and Voila… he regained his old form. This was not against backups but against MN starters.
1 Sack 2 Knockdowns, 3 QB pressures and 1 TFL.

Then we lose Lukas Van Ness in our Week 4 contest. He tries his best to return end of November for a couple snaps and it sets him back 3 more weeks into mid December. So heres a Starter poised to rise his missing effectively more than 1/2 a season.

The following Week on Thanksgiving, Devonte Wyatt gets injured and isn’t seen again lost for the season. He missed ALL of December/January.

So now we took a thin DL and had to sign a pair of DL from outside teams
on Dec 3. Jordan Riley and Quinton Bohanna. Riley is pushed into action immediately and splitting snaps without 6th RD Rookie, Warren Brinson.. until.. You guessed it Riley injures Week 16 and its season ending.

Now during all this craziness, our $42Mil per year HOF pas rusher goes out with an ACL during Week 14.

So not only is Kenny Clark gone. Micah Parsons his trade replacement is gone. Wyatt gone, Cox coming back slowly Week 16, Lukas coming off tweaking his ankle and Stackhouse out with the Flu!

At one time I think I saw Jsire Alexander dressed as #99 playing shade 0 Tech alongside Wooden.

Oh I forgot about 5th RD linebacker PUP, Collin Oliver. I think he was abducted by Aliens and dropped back off Week 18?

Point being you needed to have Turbo Excel Spreadsheet to chart the number of guys going down or being on a snap count. I’m not sure what happened to our 4th Rounder Barryn Sorrell, but he only played more than 20% snaps in Week 7, Week 18. So I’m not sure what that was all about?

So out of like 7 players from our stretch run in 2024.. we had Wooden and Brooks relatively healthy. Now I like Karl he’s a good substitute Pass Rusher. But when Karl Brooks leads your team with 60% of available D starter snaps?? it’s time to WONDER WHAT THE H! going on around here!

Where is Sam Kinison when you need him!!!

Thanks for the update.
I wish we could do something about all the injuries, but I guess every team has them.

 

[tynimiller]

Thanks for the update.
I wish we could do something about all the injuries, but I guess every team has them.

Best thing to happen injury wise - is pure luck as to who it is.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Losing Wyatt, Gary being ineffective, LVN missing games due to injury and having to play backups and PS players will weaken anyone's DL.

Good summary of the woes of GC's 2025 defense.

I think the D was held in fairly high regard BEFORE the Parsons trade. I don't really agree with that - Gary had been regressing, LVN had injury problems, Wyatt/Walker/Cooper were seen as strengths and rightly so.

Now does the presence of Parsons take an above average D and make it elite? Probably not. As FL Mike points out, it's a team game and for it to work, the total must be greater than the sum of the parts.

So looking ahead, Gary is likely gone (maybe Walkerm but I don't think so), Parsons will be back, ideally, by game 5 or 6 of the 2026 season, Gluten fills huge holes with the CBN group and adds a starting DL (less likely, DE).

That's still a tall order, with no first round pick. But even if Gluten had a first-round pick, he's gonna need FA to close some of these gaps.

All in all, I think the D will be very good next year. Adding one shutdown or "sorta-shutdown" corner will help immensely.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Best thing to happen injury wise - is pure luck as to who it is.

Yeah in the not-too-distant past injuries were frequently blamed on lack of conditioning and/or lack of a good conditioning coach.

I think luck - good and bad - plays a larger part. Guys who make their respective 53-man rosters are almost uniformly in great physical shape. Bottom line - it's very, very hard to predict what injuries will happen and how they will affect a team.

 

[Heyjoe4]

While injuries played a role, it's fair to put some of that on Hafley, who rarely dialed up pressure until Parsons was out of the picture. He got away from some of the things they did so well in his first year, which led to a lot of takeaways. He relied too much on 4-man rushes, which leaves a lot of bodies in coverage, but this only works IF you can actually generate pressure rushing 4. He refused to acknowledge the shortcomings of the pass rush and stubbornly stuck to his guns until he was forced to once Micah went down.
Count me as one guy who isn't entirely heartbroken over his departure. With or without Micah, we need a pressure based defense that can amplify the threat of our best players (Micah, D-watt, Coop, and McKinney) and protect our weakest link (DBs).

You make a lot of good points. I do believe Hafley was an excellent DC for the Packers - but not without faults.

It may have been risky to blitz a lot, given the terrible shape of the CB group. MLF picked a good replacement at DC, so I think the D will be fine.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Quite easy and anyone with basic knowledge of our roster. Our line lost our most sure thing in Clark and our ascending guy that was doing awesome till he was lost to injury in Wyatt....

Brooks, Wooden and others are best used in rotation not expected to carry....

I'm still wondering why Gluten let Slaton walk for $7 mil/year. I think he was strong against the run and didn't add much to the pass rush. Even so, he is a big guy, and with the Bears especially being good at RB, Slaton was missed.

Past is past. Gluten has a lot of work to do with the D - two starting CBs and a DL - not on the roster now. That will mean FA, and getting aggressive early.

Do you know what the FA market looks like for CBs and DLs? Or the draft starting in round 2?

 

[tynimiller]

I'm still wondering why Gluten let Slaton walk for $7 mil/year. I think he was strong against the run and didn't add much to the pass rush. Even so, he is a big guy, and with the Bears especially being good at RB, Slaton was missed.

Past is past. Gluten has a lot of work to do with the D - two starting CBs and a DL - not on the roster now. That will mean FA, and getting aggressive early.

Do you know what the FA market looks like for CBs and DLs? Or the draft starting in round 2?

To be fair Slaton was not incredible and it is possible they saw his final season here as an outlier potentially in his career not the new standard - no clue. They also weren't aware at that time they'd be having to play majority of the 2025 season without Clark and Wyatt.

 

[AmishMafia]

That's still a tall order, with no first round pick. But even if Gluten had a first-round pick, he's gonna need FA to close some of these gaps.

All in all, I think the D will be very good next year. Adding one shutdown or "sorta-shutdown" corner will help immensely.

When is the last time a 1st round pick came in and helped as a rookie? Eric Stokes in 2021, imho. And then he never helped again. Anyway, the Packers dont seem to get immediate help in the first round. We seem to focus on higher ceiling guys who need development.

I'm still wondering why Gluten let Slaton walk for $7 mil/year. I think he was strong against the run and didn't add much to the pass rush. Even so, he is a big guy, and with the Bears especially being good at RB, Slaton was missed.

I bet if Gute knew he would be trading away Kenny Clark, he would have held onto Slaton. I agree, he would have helped a lot this last season.

 

[tynimiller]

Also Bengals if they would want could save $7M and cut Slaton after this year...he didn't do amazing for them and who knows what they want to do forward. If they do, he could be a backup plan in FA.

 

[Pugger]

Also Bengals if they would want could save $7M and cut Slaton after this year...he didn't do amazing for them and who knows what they want to do forward. If they do, he could be a backup plan in FA.

If the Bengals cut him couldn't we find somebody better than that?

 

[tynimiller]

If the Bengals cut him couldn't we find somebody better than that?

Players don't fit and get cut elsewhere all the time and then become dependable starters or backups elsewhere.

Happens ALL the time.

 

[Pugger]

Players don't fit and get cut elsewhere all the time and then become dependable starters or backups elsewhere.

Happens ALL the time.

If Cincy cuts him 2 teams let him walk even with a relatively reasonable salary. I just think we could do better, that's all.

 

[tynimiller]

If Cincy cuts him 2 teams let him walk even with a relatively reasonable salary. I just think we could do better, that's all.

Always a chance. You have to remember the time frame in which GB let him walk - we had Clark (one of the most consistent DL in the league), an ascending Clark and had just had a fairly solid year out of Brooks and team felt Wooden had more to give too. From GB's perspective likely better use of funds elsewhere and that doesn't always mean the player is bad.

I mean Jon Runyan or Eric Stokes we let walk and both have at least to this point proven in their new schemes/environments to do relative well - at least enough to be starters.

 

[Heyjoe4]

To be fair Slaton was not incredible and it is possible they saw his final season here as an outlier potentially in his career not the new standard - no clue. They also weren't aware at that time they'd be having to play majority of the 2025 season without Clark and Wyatt.

Yeah I trust thge team's assessment of Slaton, and that was to let him go. And yeah, there was no way to know that Clark would be gone and Wyatt injured at the worst possible time.