official Jimmy Graham signed

[swhitset]

When you talk about value, I'm thinking of finding a guy who can perform above his pay grade. Wilkerson has the potential to play like a top 5 iDL, but he's only going to make a max of 8M. So his play could far exceed his price. That's what I'm thinking of when you say value.

Graham could play very well in Green Bay. But he's basically the highest paid TE in the league at this point. So if he plays exceptionally well, he's only matching his price tag. I don't see a scenario where he outplays his price tag.

I understand the move and the need. But I don't see the pathway to ++ value. I also don't see why we would judge it based on comparisons to wide receiver contracts. That's clearly a different market.

As long as the GM can find a way to stay within the cap.... I couldn't care less about "value". I do care about competitive advantage. I think Graham is likely to provide that.

 

[brandon2348]

Who cares? All of the best and highest paid tight ends are pass catchers first. To say he’s a value by comparing his money to actually WR contracts is homer analysis. That would be like the Jags saying they got great value on Norwel by pointing to Nate Solder’s deal,

Homer analysis? I wanted them to sign Graham and then draft Courtland Sutton so go back and read the posts. Bottom line is we got a top 5 TE in the league and paid market value to get him. Yes, top 5 players cost money. It's unrealistic that were gonna steal evey single one of them like we did Wilkerson.

We're lucky we pried Graham from the Saints and time will show that.

 

[Dantés]

As long as the GM can find a way to stay within the cap.... I couldn't care less about "value". I do care about competitive advantage. I think Graham is likely to provide that.

Teams that consistently use FA to find value against the cap get the most out of it and make the biggest improvements to their teams.

 

[Dantés]

Homer analysis? I wanted them to sign Graham and then draft Courtland Sutton so go back and read the posts. Bottom line is we got a top 5 TE in the league and paid market value to get him. Yes, top 5 players cost money. It's unrealistic that were gonna steal evey single one of them like we did Wilkerson.

We're lucky we pried Graham from the Saints and time will show that.

I don’t have any issue with what you’re specifically saying here, but that’s because you’re ignoring what I actually said. To argue for Graham’s contract being a good value by comparing it to WR contracts (like you did with Robinson and Watkins)... that is homer analysis.

 

[RRyder]

Not gonna get into a huge debate about RW3 but he isn't Drew Brees and certainly not Aaron Rodgers level and Brees was very disappointed Saints didn't sign Graham basically saying signing Jimmie Graham is "All I think about". I don't know what more people want.

It's all about value and Gute found Value here. If we just get the production Graham had last year this is a win. If he blows it up with AR12 and helps transform the offense it's an unbelievable signing. The whole premise of the Seahawk offense last year was RW3 running around with his head cut off and chucking the ball downfield. If Graham was productive in that situation then I feel very confident he will do well in ours.

I hope your joking.

You can like this deal if you want. I disagree. But this is just one of the most foolish statements I've seen on this board. And I've argued with people that thought Janis was a stud

 

[brandon2348]

I don’t have any issue with what you’re specifically saying here, but that’s because you’re ignoring what I actually said. To argue for Graham’s contract being a good value by comparing it to WR contracts (like you did with Robinson and Watkins)... that is homer analysis.

Well then I would rather pay a top 5 FA receiving TE 10 mill then 14-16 for receivers that aren't even top 20.

Slice it up any way you want.

 

[brandon2348]

I hope your joking.

You can like this deal if you want. I disagree. But this is just one of the most foolish statements I've seen on this board. And I've argued with people that thought Janis was a stud

So 10 TD's isn't value?

 

[swhitset]

Teams that consistently use FA to find value against the cap get the most out of it and make the biggest improvements to their teams.

There is no doubt that that is true, but sometimes it is necessary to take a chance and pay. While I was typically not one of those that criticized Thompson for his conservative approach, It had become apparent that if the Packers want to take the next step that a little more risk is necessary especially while we have a QB like Aaron Rodgers. That is how I am perceiving this move. Now I certainly do not want the Packers to become the Redskins.... paying outrageous sums year after year in free agency only to constantly regret it, but I honestly don't believe that is a likely scenario.

 

[RRyder]

So 10 TD's isn't value?

Bubba Franks should be all I have to say.... Sorry he had better hands then Graham last year.

Your talking about VALUE and then in the same breath saying he just has to do what he did last year.

If he only produces at last year's level this is the worst contract handed out this FA period and it's not close. That shouldn't even be debatable

 

[brandon2348]

I get people are sad Jordy is gone and they have to retire there Jordy Nelson jerseys but Gute is making moves to get us back to the Super Bowl. Don't like it. Oh well. I had to watch Thompson cost us 2-3 with his BS moves or lack of.

 

[brandon2348]

Bubba Franks should be all I have to say.... Sorry he had better hands then Graham last year.

Your talking about VALUE and then in the same breath saying he just has to do what he did last year.

If he only produces at last year's level this is the worst contract handed out this FA period and it's not close

I'm done with this. Your now comparing Jimmie Graham to Bubba Frank's. Unreal. Cry me a river.

 

[Dantés]

There is no doubt that that is true, but sometimes it is necessary to take a chance and pay. While I was typically not one of those that criticized Thompson for his conservative approach, It had become apparent that if the Packers want to take the next step that a little more risk is necessary especially while we have a QB like Aaron Rodgers. That is how I am perceiving this move. Now I certainly do not want the Packers to become the Redskins.... paying outrageous sums year after year in free agency only to constantly regret it, but I honestly don't believe that is a likely scenario.

I agree with all of this and understand why they made the move and what made it necessary— i.e. the combination of a glaring hole at a position where rookies generally struggle with a shallow market for vet tight ends. Sometimes these exceptions are necessary so while I don’t love the signing, I get it. I was just saying that we shouldn’t eschew the concept of value in free agency just to support this deal.

 

[RRyder]

I'm done with this. Your now comparing Jimmie Graham to Bubba Frank's. Unreal. Cry me a river.

YOU said produce at a level like last year and it's good value. Last year he produced to the tune of roughly 550 yards receiving and was single digits in YPC while dropping passes.... But he had 10 TDs.

Would Richard Rodger be better? Cause his production last year was pretty damn much on par with RR 2015 season. Can't imagine why we signed Cook the following year when apparently that kind of production is a value deal at 11 million.

You made a foolish statement. Own it

 

[Dantés]

Well then I would rather pay a top 5 FA receiving TE 10 mill then 14-16 for receivers that aren't even top 20.

Slice it up any way you want.

I would rather assess the value of a given contract by comparing it to others at the same position rather than arbitrarily using other positions for no apparent reason other than to make the deal out to be better than it is.

 

[RRyder]

I would rather assess the value of a given contract by comparing it to others at the same position rather than arbitrarily using other positions for no apparent reason other than to make the deal out to be better than it is.

If he wants to do that I want WR production then. I mean why not if that's the litmus test? 65-70 catches for 1000 yards with 8-10 TDs should do.

He can't block and only really excels split out wide so there' the new bench mark.

(I'm not actually saying I need that kind of production just making a point)

 

[brandon2348]

Gute is getting ready to take us to the promise land and we got people winging and wanging and wah wah wah because Thompson didn't have the balls to get us back there. I Don't give a ****.

I love the move and some dont. Not gonna waste time playing word twisting. If you don't see the value in signing Jimmie Graham then I don't know what to tell ya.

 

[RRyder]

Totally word twisting when it's an exact quote

 

[Half Empty]

Apparently they wanted to roll Richard Rodgers out there and prey some rookie was gonna explode onto the seen and watch Jordy slug around out there and not get any separation and the offense spudder.

Was this just to make us Grammar Nazis grind their teeth?

 

[AmishMafia]

If he wants to do that I want WR production then. I mean why not if that's the litmus test? 65-70 catches for 1000 yards with 8-10 TDs should do.

He can't block and only really excels split out wide so there' the new bench mark.

(I'm not actually saying I need that kind of production just making a point)

Difficult to just look at stats. If he has 30 catches and 4 TDs on the season would he be worth it? What if three of the TDs were in Super Bowl, and we eke out the win in the final second on his 3rd TD? Then he was easily worth the $10M.

He may be a clutch player at this point. Not high stats but some important grabs to move the sticks in a big game at critical moments.

 

[RRyder]

Difficult to just look at stats. If he has 30 catches and 4 TDs on the season would he be worth it? What if three of the TDs were in Super Bowl, and we eke out the win in the final second on his 3rd TD? Then he was easily worth the $10M.

He may be a clutch player at this point. Not high stats but some important grabs to move the sticks in a big game at critical moments.

True. But you can use that kind of logic to justify litteraly any contract handed out

 

[Dantés]

If he wants to do that I want WR production then. I mean why not if that's the litmus test? 65-70 catches for 1000 yards with 8-10 TDs should do.

He can't block and only really excels split out wide so there' the new bench mark.

(I'm not actually saying I need that kind of production just making a point)

This is his MO. He says something extreme and then just rants off topic when asked about it.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Difficult to just look at stats. If he has 30 catches and 4 TDs on the season would he be worth it? What if three of the TDs were in Super Bowl, and we eke out the win in the final second on his 3rd TD? Then he was easily worth the $10M.

He may be a clutch player at this point. Not high stats but some important grabs to move the sticks in a big game at critical moments.

Good point, this is much like how people want to remember Jared Cook, his fantastic grab against Dallas. However, if you look at Cooks stat in 2016, they were anything but special.
30 catches
377 yds
12.6 average
1 TD.

Yet, I keep reading how TT screwed up and didn't resign Cook. I liked Cook, but not at what he was asking from the Packers in 2017.

 

[AmishMafia]

True. But you can use that kind of logic to justify litteraly any contract handed out

Yes. Of course.

That logic shouldn't be used to sign anyone to stupid $. It should be used to judge the deal after the fact.

I would cut AR and sign Honey Badger for $50M per year if I knew I would win the next 3 SBs.

 

[brandon2348]

This is his MO. He says something extreme and then just rants off topic when asked about it.

Rant off topic? Not sure how much more clear I can be that I like the signing and I believe the value is there in regards to Graham. We have signed a FA that is mostly having a HOF career and yet some are comparing him to Bubba Frank's. Not gonna go there.

I know your butt hurt they didn't sign Burton but that doesn't mean that Gute didn't get good Value for Jimmie Graham. Lastly, if we win the Super Bowl are you really gonna sit here and question the contract?

 

[brandon2348]

This is his MO. He says something extreme and then just rants off topic when asked about it.

Are you gonna cry this much when we draft Courtland Sutton too?