OFFICIAL DEFENSIVE ISSUES THREAD

[13 Times Champs]

Must've been one of the whole 2 tackles he had during the game.

And that's two more than Neal has made the entire friggin year! Jenkins is pitching a 36-0 shutout!

 

[FrankRizzo]

And that's two more than Neal has made the entire friggin year! Jenkins is pitching a 36-0 shutout!

Right, and Neal gets single-blockes whereas offensive lines have to account two guys, usually a guard and the center, for Cullen on passing downs.
He's really helped out Jason Babin and Trent Cole. Those guys on the ends are monsters. And that team still has Brandon Graham, a guy I dreamed of getting in the 2010 draft to pair with Clay.

Luckily for us, they've had injuries on offense, and their DBs struggled to gell.

 

[FrankRizzo]

Just had a chat question with Tyler Dunne. (David Wheaton is one of my many aliases)

• Q: David Wheaton, Lake Minnetonka - If you were the Packers GM this off-season (barring any major injuries between now and then), wouldn't your #1 focus be on finding a legit OLB to play opposite Matthews? Like Woodley to James Harrison if you will..... Find a Tamba Hali, Alden Smith... maybe Brandon Graham could be available as the Eagles jason Babin has blossomed opposite Trent Cole. Speaking of the Eagles DL, please let the fans know that the presence of Cullen Jenkins on passing downs has drawn a lot of focus from opposing OL's which has made it easier for DEs like Babin and Trent Cole to get to QB's with one-on-one opportunities. Last year, those opps were for Clay Matthews & BJ Raji. This year, OL's don't worry about doubling guys like Wynny, Wilson, and surely Neal.
• A: Tyler Dunne - Thompson would surely love to have a James Harrison fall into his lap on draft weekend. It's clearly a big need on this defense, but the G.M. isn't going to panic and overpay for someone in free agency. They probably can invest a high draft pick on one, though. That'd be a step forward. Green Bay has lived on the cheap at that position in each of Dom Capers' three seasons as defensive coordinator (Jones, Zombo, Walden). As for your point on Cullen Jenkins, you're absolutely right. B.J. Raji told me earlier this season just how huge Jenkins was next to him. It took a ton of heat off and opened opportunities for others. Raji's production has declined sharply without Jenkins around. Jarius Wynn, C.J. Wilson and (not-so) fan favorite Mike Neal have all had opportunities and all been letdowns. I like Wilson as a situational run stuffer, but the Packers definitely miss Jenkins.

 

[longtimefan]

Just had a chat question with Tyler Dunne. (David Wheaton is one of my many aliases)

• . B.J. Raji told me earlier this season just how huge Jenkins was next to him. It took a ton of heat off and opened opportunities for others. Raji's production has declined sharply without Jenkins around.

Wow, where did I hear that before

 

[Jules]

I have not seen a D that frustrated me this much since the 2006 Colts regular season D. I can only hope they turn it around in time the same way.....

Ugh Ugh Ugh.

 

[Bogart]

I'm not gonna get on my soap box much tonight as my hands are killing me, but I will say this.

I thought losing a game, someone wouldn't be lazy and let it slide. Obviously Dom Capers and company don't give a **** what so ever what our defense is ranked. The Bears have thrown the ball just 10 times and we've already been shredded for 277 yards. This defense is just amazing. Lose a game thanks to them, and don't even try to fix the problems.

HOW HARD IS IT TO STOP THE BEARS OFFENSE!!!!???

They have done this in EVERY game since Cutler went down, look at the stats!

Run to the left, up the middle, toss to the left, run to the right, play action, pass, run, run, run, pass, run, run, run.

The Packers defense is no better than New England's 32nd ranked and they are proving it tonigh.t Just 10 pass attempts and they've already gave up 147 on the ground, while our offense can't even hit 20 yards on the ground in the first half.

Anyone scared of San Fran? You know, a team that can run the ball well?

 

[longtimefan]

I just hope to GOD this defense wont come back to bite us

 

[Bogart]

I thought them losing to K.C. would mean they would all get together and say "OK our defense isn't working...Let's try something else guys." I even told someone that, "oh well, they're still in the playoffs. McCarthy finally has something to yell at his guys about and tell them to get it together" Last year Dom Capers' schemes helped this team to a top ranked defense. Why on earth are they ranked dead last next to New England a year later? Can't blame it all on the losses of injuries and guys we cut in the off season.

If you lead the league in interceptions, what's the excuse to constantly get burned with passing and not just that, but the running game too?

I looked up stats for the Bears after Cutler went down, and Forte too. It's not that hard to stop the Bears who run a very conservative offense. You know, run to the left, pitch to the left, up the middle, run to the right, up the middle, play action, pass, run, run, run, pass. Yet they still out gained us and we gave up over 441 yards just a week after 430 (giving KC their highest of the season in yards). We let the Bears rush for 199 yards on us. 199 vs the 14 or so yards we held them to at the end of the season....What was up with that? And on top of that, they had no Forte yet managed to cut us to pieces like that?

It's became very embarrassing. I don't know if this is Dom Capers defense. I don't want to accept the fact that they are ranked 31st. I think this defense is the New England Patriots of the NFC. They pride themselves just on turnovers, everything else is **** poor chicken **** tackling and not caring how bad it makes you look. Just take a look how far it got New England last year. They were ranked 31st on the pass, and lead the league in interceptions. They were showing the signs all year that something was wrong, and in typical Bill Bellichek way, he ignores it and don't care because "Brady can out score anybody!" Sadly that's how the Packers are making me feel. The signs are out there that the defense has major issues, and also they are struggling to run the ball, but it's still very pass happy with the thought "No one is going to stop Rodgers."


It is that time of the season where everyone is trying to spark where they have weaknesses. Remember last season when we couldn't run the ball and the run game picked up just in time we needed it? The Lions have got their defense back up in time to stop the run and just look how they man handled San Diego (a team we let come back and nearly beat us). The 49ers have tried to do more with Alex Smith, and have been opening up more passing routes they normally don't push for, (even though they still depend on driving with the run and kicking field goals).Can't judge Atlanta or New Orleans until tomorrow night, but so far it seems playoff bound teams are trying to work on where they need improvements. Which with the Pack it would be running the ball and the defense.

I trust McCarthy as I trust Thompson but so far this season I have no reason to trust this defense what so ever. To lead the league in interceptions and rank 31st as a total defense and then to add salt to the wound; we had to hear now with this win that the Packers have gave up more yards TOTAL for the season than their offense has gained. Tell me that's not embarrassing when you're 14-1!!!

The Packers so far are starting to go down the road of the post-1984 Miami Dolphins as far as defenses go. The Dolphins had the number 2 overall ranked defense, the best offense in the NFL and got skull crushed by SF in the Super Bowl. Their defense, was never ever the same after losing the Super Bowl. They would give up so many yards, and points, get caught up in shoot outs like the memorable 45-51 game where neither defense could stop each other, I just don't think they led the league in interceptions after that. Every year they got worse. Where on our side, we did win the Super Bowl then our defense hasn't been the same after being so impressive last year.


I just have a hard time wrapping it around my brain. We lead the league in turnovers which is 50% to say your defense is good. Yet we are ranked 31st as a defense, and can't stop anyone, is that a minus 50%?

The playoffs are coming up and I am praying to god every night that they get together and do something. We've already gave teams 15 weeks of tape to see how much fun of a circus show they can make on this defense. I am praying something gives and the defense starts playing like a real defense in the playoffs.

 

[12theTruth]

Excellent post. I feel the Packer's problems on defense are a combination of the BIG dropoff from Nick Collins to Peprah and the apparent decline of defensive line effectiveness. I don't get all the talk of Pickett being so great. I mean he was getting manhandled by the Giants offensive line quite often a couple weeks back. As a defensive unit, if its not effort than its schematic. Hopefully Capers can get S'oto a few more snaps. He looked pretty good in the 4th quarter, nearly getting to McCown at least on one occasion.

Time is running short to get things headed in the right direction defensively.

 

[okcpackerfan]

missed the first part of the game so I am re-watching it and just on the first series alone I am seeing the packers running a 2-4-5, 4-4-3, and a 3-4-4. None of which worked. I don't put much stock in statistics and think our defense is better than people think but it seems as if Dom Capers is trying to to out think everyone so much he is out thinking his own players.

 

[Aaron rodgers is god]

I'm putting barely any blame on capers. As I watched today's game I saw players fail to make plays. The one that comes to mind is when tramon willams fell down and earl bennet caught the ball. Alright that is fine, except tramon willams made the worst effort to tackle the guy i've ever seen. He instead goes for the ball when the guy is going full speed at him. We had so many players do this throughout the game. Im putting 95% blame on the players. I realize some players are playing hard but others are not getting the job done. The players I see that made consistent plays throughout the game were Bishop, Matthews, and Woodson. Everyone else is not beating their 1 on 1s BJ Raji needs to start stepping up. We have had some injuries on the d-line. We need him to start pushing the pocket back and to stop the run. Our front 7 looked terrible today. Not only did every blitz get picked up but we allowed the qb to scramble way to many times. Also we got juked out by Mccown almost every time. I hate to sound like a debbie downer on a win, but this is going to come up and haunt us in the playoffs. We vsed a back up RB and a Qb who hasn't played in 4 years. We allowed the Rb to go way over 100 yards and the QB has plenty of time to throw and complete passes consistently. This should not happen with the defending superbowl champions.

 

[Southpaw]

I wonder if you are TT, do you sign a D end before the trade deadline to help out with Neal being rather ineffective and Pickett with his concussion issue which even though could be a non-issue by playoff time, you never know when it might recur. Because an effective pass rush would pay dividends in slowing teams down

 

[Southpaw]

There is just a severe lack of effort and passion up front. The only guys playing are Bishop and Matthews. Raji could be a hell of a lot more effective if the twits next to him could get some pressure

 

[Fazeman]

Despite our defense allowing 6000 yards, I'm still intrigued by their "bend but don't break" play. Granted, the opponent's time of possession hurts our offense, but the numerous critical run-stops and overall turnovers have not only fed our offense, they have negated a lot of those yards allowed. Maybe it can be said that we have a gunslinger defense because they live and die by their opportunistic style of play. No doubt, it keeps me on the edge of my seat. But, so long as we keep winning, there won't be any thought of coming in second. And the last time I checked, coming in second means nothing at all.

 

[Bogart]

I'm putting barely any blame on capers. As I watched today's game I saw players fail to make plays. The one that comes to mind is when tramon willams fell down and earl bennet caught the ball. Alright that is fine, except tramon willams made the worst effort to tackle the guy i've ever seen. He instead goes for the ball when the guy is going full speed at him. We had so many players do this throughout the game. Im putting 95% blame on the players. I realize some players are playing hard but others are not getting the job done. The players I see that made consistent plays throughout the game were Bishop, Matthews, and Woodson. Everyone else is not beating their 1 on 1s BJ Raji needs to start stepping up. We have had some injuries on the d-line. We need him to start pushing the pocket back and to stop the run. Our front 7 looked terrible today. Not only did every blitz get picked up but we allowed the qb to scramble way to many times. Also we got juked out by Mccown almost every time. I hate to sound like a debbie downer on a win, but this is going to come up and haunt us in the playoffs. We vsed a back up RB and a Qb who hasn't played in 4 years. We allowed the Rb to go way over 100 yards and the QB has plenty of time to throw and complete passes consistently. This should not happen with the defending superbowl champions.

Well that's a good way to look at it.

McCown having a good game against us reminds me of us letting Christian Ponder have one if his only 2 good games of the season though. We let that kid look real sharp against us and so far this season, that's been his only good game (you can count Carolina too since he won I guess) but I don't really want to go that far, I always see McCown as a failure but we let him look great today too just as Ponder did in his first start.

 

[Bogart]

There is just a severe lack of effort and passion up front. The only guys playing are Bishop and Matthews. Raji could be a hell of a lot more effective if the twits next to him could get some pressure

I agree, but I think it's more to it. I'm still having a hard time wrapping my head around this.

 

[GBMuskies]

Well, the pass rush has not been great so they give up some big plays through the air when the QB has all day to throw. But that was balanced today by how they were able to give up a lot of yards on the ground.

 

[Aaron rodgers is god]

Well that's a good way to look at it.

McCown having a good game against us reminds me of us letting Christian Ponder have one if his only 2 good games of the season though. We let that kid look real sharp against us and so far this season, that's been his only good game (you can count Carolina too since he won I guess) but I don't really want to go that far, I always see McCown as a failure but we let him look great today too just as Ponder did in his first start.

Give Mccown credit for his performance. We did not challenge him enough. We made it to easy on him. We barely got any hits on him. When we did get to him we put weak hits on him

 

[98Redbird]

We miss Nick Collins and Cullen Jenkins...

We physically just straight up CANNOT get to the QB. And fact is, ANY QB can make plays in this league when he is not being pressured. Doesn't help that we constantly seem to fall down, give the receiver a 5 to 10 yard cushion, blow an assignment or miss a tackle. The phases "Missed Tackle" and "Blown Coverage" are a weekly occurance. Usually multiple times a game. Really, it comes down to the fact that our defense is just flat out playing at a low level.

As the team stands right now... NO will beat us. Sorry to say. Defense needs to find some kind of enthusiasm. Anything at this point will be an upgrade. We made a QB that was coaching high schoolers 5 weeks ago, a 4th string RB and a WR core that doesn't even have a WR that would qualify as a solid number 2 on any other team look like SOLID NFL starting caliber players tonight. That **** has got to stop.

 

[dbain21]

The defense is a concern, but its been a concern all year long, and now they only have one game to try and fix things, and its against one of most threatening offenses in the league in my opinion. Like A-rod is god said, the tackling was just awful, and that Tramon Williams play was pathetic. While things like defensive schemes, and lack of pressure can be debated, it all starts with the basics, and on defense thats tackling- can't have this type of play in the playoffs and expect to win.
Big ups to Woodson and Matthews though, its clear they both are carrying this d on their shoulders at this point. Bishop was decent as well. I really really hope this D steps up their play in the playoffs, especially against the run which was their one good quality in the beginning quarter of the season, or else teams are gonna carve us up in the pass game and run down our throats.

 

[GBMuskies]

What gets me is the blitz packages have not only not gotten to opposing QBs for sacks, but they fail to even get there soon enough to hurry throws. More often than not, it seems there is some hesitation when they send a corner or safety. They just don't slam it into gear and go after them. When they do, QBs are stepping up because the front three aren't getting any push.

They have been getting by, though, on the number if INTs they're getting. The number they have is really pretty impressive, so there are good things going on. And when Rodgers gets the ball after a turnover he generally scores. Realistically, how much better will the pass rush be going forward? We're probably not going to see a huge improvement. So you have to hope they'll keep creating picks. Of the QBs they'll likely face, who will throw a couple the Packers' way?

I think Stafford is good for one or two. Alex Smith and Ryan, too. Rothlisberger will probably throw them one.

Brady and Brees are the main worries as they can score like hell and are the least likely to throw picks in big games.

Of course, Mike Neal could start playing like we all know he can and all this would be moot.

 

[GreenBlood]

Mods:

Please merge this with "OFFICIAL DEFENSIVE ISSUES THREAD" It's yet another, same crap, different week post.

 

[ExpatPacker]

Despite our defense allowing 6000 yards, I'm still intrigued by their "bend but don't break" play. Granted, the opponent's time of possession hurts our offense, but the numerous critical run-stops and overall turnovers have not only fed our offense, they have negated a lot of those yards allowed. Maybe it can be said that we have a gunslinger defense because they live and die by their opportunistic style of play. No doubt, it keeps me on the edge of my seat. But, so long as we keep winning, there won't be any thought of coming in second. And the last time I checked, coming in second means nothing at all.

And the chances are very good that that sort of defense will fail against a playoff-caliber team. We gonna rely on Drew Brees throwing an INT? Good luck. Or SF? Or a resurgent Detroit or Atlanta? Stafford and Ryan are both playing very well. The Packers will have to make some real stops for us to win those playoff games, and they have not shown that they can can do it. KC and Chi, two anemic offenses just ran and passed all over us.

 

[12theTruth]

Mods:

Please merge this with "OFFICIAL DEFENSIVE ISSUES THREAD" It's yet another, same crap, different week post.

I'd call it legitimate discussion. Besides as bad as this defense has been it gets tiresome scrolling through dozens of pages just to catch up with season long thread. What's wrong with leaving it as is?

 

[pacmaniac]

We miss Nick Collins and Cullen Jenkins...

Those are definitely big factors, but still, isn't Dom Capers supposed to be a defensive genius? I would think he'd be able to figure out a way to have the defense at least be somewhere in the middle of the pack. But no it's 2nd to last.

As the team stands right now... NO will beat us.

Assuming they can beat the 9ers in Candlestick. But we'll score a bunch of points on them too. And supposedly the Saints are not a good road team this year.