OFFICIAL DEFENSIVE ISSUES THREAD

[Jules]

Yes, but that was last year, and last year the Pack had a good defense. This year, not so much.
I'm not gauranteeing a Niner victory at all. I've said all year I think the Pack will go 19-0. I still think that's most likely to be true. I'm just saying don't count the Niners out. Which it seems everyone is doing right now. I guess I'm getting a bit perturbed at the lack of respect. They won their division with a shut-out victory and have the second best record in the league, but still they're ranked around #5 in most power polls. (All because of the Ravens game) And before anyone says "Yeah you shut out the 2-10 Rams, so what?" I would say we shut-out a team that beat the Saints and held the Packers scoreless for an entire half.
I wouldn't argue that for a moment. But come playoff time, I'd say that if the Niners can beat the Saints in the divisional round, they can beat anybody.

I have given the Niners mad props all year. Picked them to finally knock off the freaking Lions that one week and always sung their praises. I do think they are a very solid team. Not sure they have been truly tested though as much as you think on defense for me to truly be as scared of them as I would some other D's though. It's a great D, but beatable IMO. Even in the cold.
The Saints are a poor playoff road team. And thats a tough road for SF to beat both the Saints and Packers to get to a SB. I just don't think it's the Niners year though.
Most people seem to now want Saints at Packers. It would be fitting though to have the last two SB champs go at it in the title game for the right to go back to the SB too.
Also, watch out for the rest of your schedule. In Seattle game on a short week following MNF against the Steelers is also a trap if you lose to Pittsburgh. Teams who play the Steelers tend to struggle or lose a week later.
Niners could still lose the second seed and have to be very very careful the rest of the way.

 

[Marem19]

You know while i do have my concerns about our defense they are lessened when the team plays at home. That is when our defense does its best work and i believe the home air will greatly benefit it all the more reason the lock up homefield

 

[Gmcman22]

I'm worried our defense will cost us this year. If we run into a game where the defense is struggling to defend the pass, and our WR's get another case of the drops... we might be in trouble. We have no run game to rely on to chew up clock either so we can't play ball control unless our WR can hold on to the ball.

That said, the O has been so good so far, I'm not sure I really think it will happen.

 

[TJV]

Here’s a LINK to a jsonline story from about 4 days ago that contains what I thought was a surprising revelation.

A constant throughout this season has been the number of big plays the secondary has given up. In just the past five games, the opposition has struck for plays of 20 or more yards 19 times.

The most frustrating part for Capers is that many of them are coming on the same routes, which means that opponents are seeing what other teams are doing to the Packers and repeating it over and over again. For some reason, Capers can't get the entire unit to both react to it and defend it.

The article goes on to talk about the lack of communication (or coordination) between Williams (who is getting beat on too many of these similar plays) and safeties Burnett and Peprah. Capers talked about the need to play the ball in the air better and I think Williams has said on one such recent play he lost the ball in the lights. But it’s obviously more than that.

The Packers D has been very opportunistic but in the playoffs they’ll have to figure out a way to minimize getting beat on the same routes. With the coaching staff and the players available, they should be able to get that done - even without Collins. But I would have said that two months ago...

 

[Bogart]

That's something our secondary has become famous for in highlight reels, they give up HUGE plays.

I hate to say it, but this defense is very similar to New England last year.


They were 14-2 off Brady and company out scoring everyone, and on top of that, they led the league in interceptions last year, just like we do, but they still couldn't stop anybody. Even in those big blow outs, they gave up tons of yards, and points. So what was bound to happen to them? Eventually someone could shut them down, not an easy task to do shutting down their offense, but if you did, then you could easily get up on them and score points. In the playoffs, that is exactly why they lost to a lucky Jets team. The Jets shut down their offense, and then even with an average at best quarterback, and an offense that's not all that great, the Jets got up on them and scored.

I fear that's going to be our fate. As soon as we play a defense that shuts our offense down, we're probably done, and don't say it's not possible. It don't matter how good an offense is, they CAN be shut down with the right formula. The Giants were a huge scare, and it showed it's possible to give this offense a run for the money. The only downside is, the AFC has the 3 defenses I think that could be our biggest challenge, that is Houston, Baltimore, and sadly Pittsburgh.That would really really suck if we got to the Super Bowl and were stunned by a defense shutting us down a bit, and us not being able to stop the other team.

I would rather have our defensive problems fixed than go 16-0, because that's what matters most. They better get it together come play off time, cause when we play the Saints, I can already see Brees with a career day throwing 400 yards again and 4 TD's.


This should be the question of the month. Come play off time are the Packers defense going to give up 400 yards a game, give up 30 points a game, and give up those HUGE plays? The NFC has many good offenses, and even an average offense looks elite against us (Giants, Tampa Bay) where in the AFC, it's all defense, and some good offenses.

 

[Jules]

Bogart, I think people sell last years Jets team short. That was a very good team. Everyone got brainwashed since NE destroyed them in that one game. Problem is the Jets made serious adjustments and the Pats **** and dunk offense was going to catch up to them eventually IMO. Rex Ryan outcoached NE in the playoffs. He shut down the receivers and dared them to even run at times. The NE offense still does not have a real deep threat. Last years Pats were also expected in some ways heading into that season to be in rebuilding mode but the rookie TEs far surpassed expectations. Brady took plenty of coverage sacks in the playoffs loss vs. the Jets and lets be honest.....the Jets just looked A LOT hungrier then NE. A lot. And NE lost to the freaking Browns last year too for crying out loud. THE BROWNS.

I don't think last years Jets got lucky. Beating Peyton and Tom on the road in back to back weeks in the playoffs is not lucky. That was a good D. And on offense the o line was top notch, the run game was top notch and the receivers were good.

This years Packers though will also get every teams best shot and it will be even tougher in road games. Yards are not something I get overly excited over either. Yards given up, yards thrown for......at times it's just noise to me.

There is also no reason that the Packers D can't and won't step it up. And in Green Bay the Packers will have the huge homefield advantage in the playoffs.

Everyone is freaking out over the Saints and with good reason, Brees and that offense can be terrific. But, never forget that if this game happens it is IN Green Bay and adjustments should be made from that week 1 game. Also the Packers still have Aaron Rodgers. It's not like he can't also go off in a game vs. any D at any given time just as easily as someone could go off on the Packers D.

Yes though, the Packers still need to tighten up in coverage. Wide open receivers at times are a problem and becoming a pattern. I don't see why it can't be fixed though.

 

[Bogart]

Bogart, I think people sell last years Jets team short. That was a very good team. Everyone got brainwashed since NE destroyed them in that one game. Problem is the Jets made serious adjustments and the Pats **** and dunk offense was going to catch up to them eventually IMO. Rex Ryan outcoached NE in the playoffs. He shut down the receivers and dared them to even run at times. The NE offense still does not have a real deep threat. Last years Pats were also expected in some ways heading into that season to be in rebuilding mode but the rookie TEs far surpassed expectations. Brady took plenty of coverage sacks in the playoffs loss vs. the Jets and lets be honest.....the Jets just looked A LOT hungrier then NE. A lot. And NE lost to the freaking Browns last year too for crying out loud. THE BROWNS.

I don't think last years Jets got lucky. Beating Peyton and Tom on the road in back to back weeks in the playoffs is not lucky. That was a good D. And on offense the o line was top notch, the run game was top notch and the receivers were good.

This years Packers though will also get every teams best shot and it will be even tougher in road games. Yards are not something I get overly excited over either. Yards given up, yards thrown for......at times it's just noise to me.

There is also no reason that the Packers D can't and won't step it up. And in Green Bay the Packers will have the huge homefield advantage in the playoffs.

Everyone is freaking out over the Saints and with good reason, Brees and that offense can be terrific. But, never forget that if this game happens it is IN Green Bay and adjustments should be made from that week 1 game. Also the Packers still have Aaron Rodgers. It's not like he can't also go off in a game vs. any D at any given time just as easily as someone could go off on the Packers D.

Yes though, the Packers still need to tighten up in coverage. Wide open receivers at times are a problem and becoming a pattern. I don't see why it can't be fixed though.

That's where I fear the most, adjustments.


If you look at the Saints from the first few weeks to after they lost to Tampa bay, you're looking at a whole different team. They were playing like they did last year, depending on Brees to do all the heavy lifting and putting it in the air 40 times a game. Now they finally got the point that they can run all over teams with that 3 headed running monster (and 4 if Ivory was healthy).


So far with our defense, I have the impression that nothing matters. It don't matter how bad the defense is, Rodgers will out score them. We're depending on the offense to do everything, and it don't work forever. When we needed the defense the most last week in the final drive, they left Hakeem Nicks and Victor Cruz wide open. That's really the Patriots problem. Their defense is just as bad as ours, and when their offense is shut down, they can't depend on the defense do anything right. I know this offense is very good, but even the best offenses of all time get shut down eventually.


There really is no excuse at all for this defense to play so horrible. They lead the league in interceptions, that tells you have the potential.

 

[PackersDraft]

Wouldn't it be amazing if we go 19-0 and have a defense like this? (Which I don't think is really all that bad) Really goes to show how great our offense is.

 

[realcaliforniacheese]

Wouldn't it be amazing if we go 19-0 and have a defense like this? (Which I don't think is really all that bad) Really goes to show how great our offense is.

remember last year how we had no running game all season and then suddenly one appeared in the playoffs. Look for Neal to make his mark.

 

[FrankRizzo]

OK, I looked and searched to find this pre-existing thread!

Our defense is still, more than ever, worthy of a big thread like this!
Who started this thread?

Some fans said, "Hey. we're still winning, the defense is fine." the Problem is that it was Rodgers, and some timely bad passes donated to us that saved this defense.

(This is from Bob McGinn)

YESTERDAY IN KC: the last two minutes. Rodgers had just directed an 80-yard touchdown drive to move within a touchdown, and the Packers had four stoppages - three timeouts plus the 2-minute warning - to pull off what would have been a glorious comeback.

What happened next was pathetic. The Chiefs (6-8), having lost five of their last six under Todd Haley, proceeded to run Thomas Jones twice for 13 yards and one first down and then Jackie Battle twice for 19 yards and another.

Three kneel-downs later, McCarthy was setting sail across the field to shake hands with coach Romeo Crennel.

"We saw things on film," fullback Le'Ron McClain said. "We saw teams score points on their defense. We felt we could wear them down."

So the Chiefs piled up a season-high 438 yards (139 rushing) and 23 first downs, and kept the Packers offense off the field for most of the game.

 

[longtimefan]

Frank.,.....

Wish I could give you 50 likes for searching!!!!!

 

[cheesehurdler]

Our defense is definitely worse than the 2010 version. How? Well, I'll take a look at the playoff games and the Bears game at Lambeau.

In the Eagles game, the D made a statement by sacking Vick on the first play. He was sacked 3 total times, and I remember him being pressured, too, and forced to make errant throws, including the interception at the end of the game. This is Michael Vick we're talking about, too. A QB who's notoriously hard to bring down.

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I took a look at the play, and the receivers were covered. Well, covered enough at least to force Vick to throw the ball to Cooper, which ended up getting picked. There was good communication on the play, as I'm seeing CBs cover their zones and assignments and not get confused. Would you trust our secondary in this situation? I don't. As a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure Vick would've thrown a long one to Jackson for the score. The Defense was a major factor in that game, because Rodgers didn't have a good game (Although he threw 3 TD passes, he only threw for 180 yards, and there were some drops by Jones, too, including one for the touchdown). The defense had his back (along with Starks running for 123 yards) which put pressure off of Rodgers to win the game for him.

There is a great example of good defense from Super Bowl XLV. Here's the Collins interception.

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Here, in this play, there was pressure. Pressure enough for Roethlisberger to get hit as he threw the ball, affecting his accuracy. Nick Collins caught the pass and ran it in for a pick 6. Capers rushed 5, because he had faith that the DBs would be able to cover their assignments.

However, the best games where the defense stepped up is during the Bears game and the Falcons divisional playoff game. In both games, the pass rush was in the QB's face all day long. There were 6 sacks for 51 yards in the Bears game, and 5 sacks for 37 yards for the Falcons game. We held those two offenses to 227 and 194 yards respectively and gave up 3 to the Bears and 14 to the Falcons (the extra 7 points was due to a 102-yard kickoff return). 194 yards was the lowest of the season for the Falcons, who were ranked 5th in offense coming into the game. And I didn't even get into the turnovers, yet!

I wouldn't trust this defense to handle any of these situations the way they're playing. I mean, it would be ludicrous of me to say that they can hold a 5th-ranked offense to under 200 yards after giving up 424 yards to the worst offense in the NFL (Rams), and 438 yards to the 2nd worst (Chiefs). They've already failed holding down a #5 ranked offense to under 200 yards by giving up 460 yards and 38 points to the Chargers. I dread to think of what the Saints would do to us.

The reason is, even though they're getting turnovers, they're a mess. There's a lot of blown assignments due to confusion and lack of communication. You see a lot of players slipping and not making tackles, turning what should've been a small gain or even a loss into a first down, or even a TD. I can point to several examples. The TD pass by Eli Manning at the start of the Giants game. The Blount run. The long bomb in the KC game to Pope that was almost a touchdown. Almost every single play in the Carolina game.

They can't get pressure either. In many of those big pass plays, the QBs had enough time for the play to take form and make the throws. As noted in the examples above, pressure is huge, and can cause turnovers (such as hurried throws for interceptions and fumbles). Orton and Manning had field days throwing against us because of lack of pressure (no sacks in KC, and 1 sack that really wasn't in the NYG game).

The main question is how far the offense can take GB. The reason why the 2010 Packers won Super Bowl XLV is because they were a complete team. They had the offense and the defense to compete with anybody in the league. What happens if Rodgers has an off day, or the receivers can't make passes, or the offense just can't score? Are we going to rely on the defense to bail them out? This thought alone makes me worried going into the playoffs, thinking about how this defense can stop the Saints Brees and the potent run game.

Now, I know people are going to be reading this and think that we’re getting the turnovers and stopping drives. Well, to me, that says that they have the ability to play to their 2010 level. I’ve seen the D play great during the Minnesota game in GB, the Lions game (I remember Calvin Johnson got only 49 yards and a garbage time TD or so) and the Raiders game where Palmer threw 4 picks. The week after those wins, they gave up a lot of plays and yardage. That kind of inconsistency is bizarre for a football team as elite as the Packers, considering how consistent the offense is. I know this defense can do it, but the question is, will they do it on a consistent basis, especially with the playoffs on the horizon?

[sorry for the long post and the wall of text]

 

[Jules]

The 2 biggest contenders in the NFC are the Packers then the Saints. Both have iffy D's at times.

In the AFC the biggest so called contender is the Patriots. Their D is even worse then the Packers/Saints and now lost Andre Carter for the season so the pass rush might get worse.

On the flip side you have a team like the Niners who have a scary D but also have issues most of the time getting TDs on offense. In the AFC you also have teams like the Steelers/Ravens/Texans with top defenses but who often sometimes have questionable offenses/QBs.

My guess is something has to give in the playoffs. They say defense wins championships but someone has to step it up. Out of the teams with the elite O's and questionable D's I still give the Pack D the best shot at stepping things up full time based on all around talent and coaching. The question is if they will when it really matters. They will have to step it up if they want the repeat.

 

[Unomee]

As concerned as we are about our team's defense with the yards and big plays that have been allowed how do you think they are in terms of points allowed? This stat is comparable with 3 of the other top 4 teams right now.

 

[azrsx05]

I think the loss of Jenkins is bigger than we thought. We are getting no pressure up the middle. He used to get double teamed all the time. Which always freed up someone. Which is a huge reason Mathews had a monster year last year and this year he just isn't getting to the QB. Raji can't do it all in the middle by himself. We can't get pressure on any QB's without having to send extra men, which is another reason we are giving up chunks of yards. If we could get another rusher in the middle to disrupt the line, all these other defensive guys would not have to compensate for not pressuring QB's.

 

[Southpaw]

Looks like Mike Neal is injured again. I gotta be honest the guys seems to be a lot of hype by some fans. I didn't even notice a difference up front when he played.

 

[realcaliforniacheese]

Looks like Mike Neal is injured again. I gotta be honest the guys seems to be a lot of hype by some fans. I didn't even notice a difference up front when he played.

have a link?

 

[Jules]

Tackle the guy who has the ball.

 

[Southpaw]

have a link?

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/rapid-reports/post/16545723

shoulder bruised and swelling.

 

[FrankRizzo]

I saw the play, and noticed it.... of course the Fox crew FAILED to even mention it.
It was a screen play or something like that to the right, and Neal hustled from pass rushing, to breaking back and pursuing hard up the field, to the right side for the offense, and as reaching in, got popped on the shoulder.

I saw him stay down as he left the camera frame.... never saw him on the field again but did notice him way later still in uni on the sideline with something wrapped on his shoulder.

 

[13 Times Champs]

Looks like Mike Neal is injured again..... I didn't even notice a difference up front when he played.

exactamundo. Probably injured it when he fell on the turf. He spends a lot of time there. Big mistake letting Jenkins go.

 

[TJV]

Probably injured it when he fell on the turf.

Posted about 2 hours before the above post:

I saw the play.... It was a screen play or something like that to the right, and Neal hustled from pass rushing, to breaking back and pursuing hard up the field, to the right side for the offense, and as reaching in, got popped on the shoulder.

Posted Monday on the "Thompson's bigger mistake" thread:

Just look at Jenkins numbers this year, he has missed a couple games plus he has 5.5 sacks and 28 tackles all season. Jarius Wynn and CJ Wilson have 32 solo tackles and 3 sacks combined.

On that same thread I posted that in the last four games Jenkins has 0 sacks, 8 tackles and 0 assists. And 4 of his 5.5 sacks came in the first 5 games this season. Of course the Packers could use Jenkins but anyone thinking his presence would have made a significant difference is fooling themselves. For example, how much would Jenkins' 0 sacks and 8 tackles over the past four games helped?

 

[Bensalama21]

Posted about 2 hours before the above post: Posted Monday on the "Thompson's bigger mistake" thread: On that same thread I posted that in the last four games Jenkins has 0 sacks, 8 tackles and 0 assists. And 4 of his 5.5 sacks came in the first 5 games this season. Of course the Packers could use Jenkins but anyone thinking his presence would have made a significant difference is fooling themselves. For example, how much would Jenkins' 0 sacks and 8 tackles over the past four games helped?

exactly my point. Wynn and Neal have stepped in decently well

 

[13 Times Champs]

Posted about 2 hours before the above post:

My post about falling on the turf was tongue in cheek. Sorry you missed the humor.

 

[Bogart]

If our defense got it together around this time of the year,everything would be OK.


The other teams with bad defenses are trying to get it together.

New Orleans are starting to blitz much better now that Vilma has returned from that injury, but they still give up huge plays, and have bad pass coverage. I do think they are trying to improve as the playoffs are coming, but this game against Atlanta is the big test. Are they going to leave Douglas open all day after he racks up 50 yards on a single reception? From what I have seen lately the Saints are doing a better job shutting down a team's main runner. They held Adrian Peterson to just 60 yards, and Chris Johnson to 25, but I am not sold on them until I see them go against Michael Turner who has had career games against that D.

New England on the other hand is blaming it on injuries, but the only thing they've improved on is pass rush, then again they were going against Tim Tebow who has a great offensive line but gets sacked more than Orton did, so not that impressive.


I still think the Oilers have the best defense this year. Wade Phillips proving once again he is a much better coordinator than a head coach. I have gained lots of respect for Wade this year after what he's done to Houston. They went from a bottom 5 defense to a top 5, in just one season. Look for them to make noise after this year and shake the balance of AFC South for a long time.