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Nemeses.

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Packerlifer, Sep 19, 2015.

  1. Packerlifer

    Packerlifer Cheesehead

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    http://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/nemesis

    Over the past twenty-some years the Packers have been among the most consistently successful clubs in the National Football League. They've had 19 winning seasons and made the playoff 17 of the past 22 years; easily the longest run of success in the franchise's now 96 year history.

    Yet for all that the Packers can show only two Super Bowl wins and a third appearance during this time. We all take pride in the fact that our favorite club leads the NFL in all-time world championship total at 13 but how many more might have been added over these past two decades when opportunity was there and missed.

    Various teams and reasons can be cited for the Packers' 14 playoff eliminations short of the Super Bowl since 1993 but 10 occasions it's been against one of just 5 other clubs: the Dallas Cowboys, Philadelphia Eagles, New York Giants, San Francisco 49ers and Seattle Seahawks. They are or have been the nemeses of the Packers.

    Dallas in the 1990's eliminated the Packers in playoff competition three straight years, including a conference championship game. Over that same period they also won four straight regular season matches for a total 7 game win streak against the Green & Gold. Even in 1996 when the Packers did have a Super Bowl winning team they could not beat the Cowboys; losing a 21-6 MNF game to them that season and leaving something of a feeling of leaving some business unfinished even as they brought home the Lombardi Trophy.

    The Philadelphia Eagles became the name of the Packers' pain in the 2000's. The Eagles already had a unique place in Packers' history as the only team to beat Vince Lombardi's Packers in a playoff game in the 1960 NFL Championship. They beat the Packers in the infamous "4th & 26" playoff of the 2003 season, just when the Packers seemed to have Super Bowl momentum going for them. But two months before that game they had come to Lambeau Field on a rainy Monday night and stolen a 17-14 win on a last seconds field goal, courtesy of Packers' turnovers, despite being outplayed in almost every other aspect of the game. That loss ultimately is what put the Packers in Philly for the playoff instead of playing at home in January.

    In 2004 the Packers visited Philly again in what was supposed to be their revenge game for the playoff loss. Instead it was a complete embarrassment as the Eagles won big 47-17, with Donovan McNabb throwing for 464 yds. and 5 td's and the Eagles racked up 542 yds on a terrible Green Bay defense that season.

    Eventually the Packers did turn the worm on the Cowboys and Eagles. Their losses to Dallas were all in games at Dallas. Hope for some sweet revenge in the '96 NFC Championship Game at Lambeau were denied when the Cowboys were upset by Carolina in the previous round of the playoffs. But the NFL scheduled them at Green Bay in 1997. Although their dynasty was by then beginning to slip they were still a playoff team with many of the moving parts of its 3 Super Bowl winners still there and the Packers blew them out 45-17.

    The Packers have won 4 of the last 7 games against Dallas and with last January's playoff win at Lambeau have won 4 straight on the men beneath the Star.

    The Packers began to turn the tables on the Eagles in the opener of the 2007 season at Lincoln Financial Field when the defense and special teams got them a 16-13 win and set the team off on a 13-3 season and a run to the NFC title game. In 2010 the Packers met the Eagles in a season opener, winning 27-20 and starting a season that ultimately saw them win the Super Bowl. Among the victims of the Packers' historic playoff run that year were again the Eagles. The Packers beat them in the Wild Card playoff there 21-16.

    The Eagles did get a win on the Pack in Lambeau in 2013 when Aaron Rodgers was out with his broken collarbone. But when they came back last year with Rodgers in the game Green Bay blew them out 53-20.

    Business is as yet unfinished with the Packers' more recent nemeses the Giants, 49ers and Seahawks. New York isn't on the schedule this year but they did beat the Packers on two recent occasions that almost certainly cost Green Bay a couple more Super Bowls. Both those losses have the additional sting of coming at Lambeau.

    The Giants upset the Packers in the 2007 NFC Championship Game in overtime 23-20 and then ruined an historically great season in the divisional round playoff of 2011 37-20; making the Packers the first NFL team to go 15-1 in a season and fail to win a playoff game. The Packers' chance at revenge on them in 2012 turned out to be the worst loss the team has ever taken in a game that Aaron Rodgers started and finished 38-10. When they played in 2013 it was during Rodgers' injury absence and New York won again 27-13.

    The Packers do have the other two Seattle and San Francisco on this year's slate, starting with the Seahawks on Sunday night.

    The Niners have beaten the Packers in 3 of their last four playoff meetings, dating to the Wild Card playoff out there in 1998. That, of course, was the game in which an incredible officating blunder on the Jerry Rice fumble allowed the 49ers to score the winning td in the last seconds on Steve Young's desperation pass to Terrell Owens.

    Fresher in memory are the 2012 divisional playoff won the the Niners 45-31 in which they rolled up 579 yds., 323 rushing and saw a qb Colin Kaepernick run for 181 yds. on the Packers defense. And the 23-20 Wild Card at Lambeau, when the Packers defense couldn't stop their final 65 yd., 14 play, five minute drive to get into position to kick the game winning field goal as time expired.

    Throw in opening season losses in 2012 and 2013 and the Packers have more reasons to put San Francisco on their nemeses list.

    Now there are the Seahawks. Last January's NFC Championship Game, the 36-16 whipping in the league's season opener last year, the "Fail Mary" game in 2013. Those are reasons to put Seattle on Green Bay's nemesis list.

    As with Dallas in the '90's those losses were on their home turf, a decided advantage for them and disadvantage for the Packers. But this time they meet at Lambeau so that excuse is off the table.

    The Packers will simply have to show themselves to be the better team by their performance in a win. But a win here can get a big monkey off their back and may turn out to be the bellwether to a Super Bowl season. Beating an old nemesis before has done so.
     
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  2. Sanguine camper

    Sanguine camper Cheesehead

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    Packers have struggled with physical teams over the years. When a finesse team plays a physical team the finesse team may hold its own in the first half but eventually gets worn down and loses in an ugly second half. Most of the Packer loses to those teams featured ugly second half performances. Don't expect anything to change the Packets will win their soft division and then get throttled by another physical team. Aside from the best qb in the game the Packers are slow, soft and are mentally weak.
     
  3. PackerDNA

    PackerDNA Cheesehead

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    Sanguine camper, while I would generally agree with the basis of your post, the Packers were clearly the more physical team in the NFCCG. They are capable of playing knock down drag out types of games.
    I believe they'll be ready to do so tommorow night.
     
  4. Twiddlemylobes

    Twiddlemylobes Fat Tuesday Orleans

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    Nice read. Thank You.
    I too watched it unfold (or fold in many cases). I also enjoy the historical nature of football so I'm not disagreeing with the facts.
    In reality we can only control the "now". We can't drive our 2015 season looking into the rearview mirror. Our focus is what's in front of us and we'll crash if we spend too much time taking our eyes off our destination. This 2015 team arguably has as much raw talent and motivation to win as any squad I see as I look around this year. #12 gives us a chance no matter what the odds are (see 2010 when the same thing was being said). All that matters in this league, at this point of the season, is beating your opponent this week, the rest takes care of itself. I have my concerns, but I also know we generally start slow and make excellent adjustments at half time due to experienced coaches. We also tend to give up many yards but not many points. The Final outcome is based on 1 thing.. How many points can our opponent put up compared to us?? This week is a challenge against a quality opponent, but also an opponent who is very beatable. Although we historically start slow.. I like what we did to Seattle last year and I remember Their QB crying because he KNEW he just dodged a fatal bullet. We ARE that same fatal bullet. It's just whether our guys believe it to the degree they can taste it IMO.
     
  5. Joe Nor Cal Packer

    Joe Nor Cal Packer Cheesehead

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    I think the Packers have become much more physical and aggressive the last few years. In terms of nemesis, I think the niners helped push the Packers in that direction with some flat out butt kicking.

    This question is off topic a bit. It does relate to nemesis Seattle. Does anyone know what Kam Chacellor's current deal pays him, if he were playing? I thought he just signed a new contract before the 2014 season, and I'm curious how much money the idiot is leaving on the table each week. I'm guessing Captain knows.

    And finally a prediction for our current nemesis, Seattle. I think the Packers will win comfortably, like 30-20. Containing Wilson will be key. Not his passing but his ability to avoid the rush and make back breaking plays with his legs.
     
  6. Joe Nor Cal Packer

    Joe Nor Cal Packer Cheesehead

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    I agree. And any of us who suffered through Bart Starr's 9 year tenure can be particularly happy with the last 20 years. If all we have to complain about is that we should have won more championships, well I can certainly deal with that.
     
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  7. PFanCan

    PFanCan That's MISTER Cheesehead, to you.

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    Well done. Thanks for the excellent read.
     
  8. buggybill2003

    buggybill2003 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I never realised I have a nemesis on here :laugh:
     
  9. Packerlifer

    Packerlifer Cheesehead

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    True, but those ten playoff eliminations at the hands of these five clubs have kept the Packers of the modern era from achieving "dynasty" status.
     
  10. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    During the team's 15 playoff losses since 1992 the Packers have been outscored by a combined 91 points in the first half compared to 62 in the second.

    Chancellor signed a four-year, $28 million contract extension during the 2013 offseason with one year left on his rookie contract. He would have counted $5.65 million towardsthe Seahawks cap this season but loses close to $270K each week he's holding out.
     
  11. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    An argument could be made that beginning in the 2001 season another nemesis for the Packers in the playoffs was the player quarterbacking the team. After winning the wild card game against the 49ers after the 2001 season, the Packers faced the “greatest show on turf”. Favre scored 21 points for the Rams when he threw 6 INTs, three of which were returned for TDs. The Rams won in a blowout 45-17. If you take away the pick sixes, the game is 24-17 with the Packers having three possessions to score seven or more points and that’s even leaving the other three (plenty enough) INTs that didn’t result directly in TDs.

    2003 season: After beating the Seahawks in a wild card game the Packers faced the Eagles in the divisional playoffs. Favre had a great running game at his disposal which averaged 160 yards per game with a 5.0 ypr average. In spite of the mistakes by Sherman not going for 4th and short and the 4th and 26 disaster on D, the game went to overtime. The D got a 3-and-out and Favre trotted onto the field in OT with good field position – the Packers had the ball at their 32 yard line. Favre had a great chance to lead the team to the NFCCG. On first down he was rushed and panicked. He threw what looked like a punt to Philly’s Brian Dawkins. It was a throw unworthy of a rookie QB, let alone a 12-year veteran. Philly, instead of the Packers went on to play the Panthers in the NFCCG.

    2004 season: The Packers started the season 1-4 and finished 9-2 to win the division for the third year in a row. In the home wild card game against the Vikings, Favre threw 4 INTs. The game ended up being only a 14 point loss despite the four picks. Somehow in the middle of the fourth quarter of that game the Packers were only down by seven. It was a winnable game except for the carelessness of the Packers QB. The Vikings had only had 11 INTs for the season before this game.

    2007 season: The Packers finished 13-3 and beat the Seahawks in the divisional round. In the NFCCG at Lambeau Favre faded in the second half but trotted out on the field with a chance to win a Super Bowl berth. Again he trotted out onto the field in overtime of a playoff game with decent field position. On 2nd and 8, he dropped back to pass. Dorsey Levens snuck out of the backfield and was wide open right in front of Favre. If he had thrown the ball to Levens there wasn’t a defender within 10 yards of him. The chance of an INT on that throw was zero. Driver OTOH was never open on his route, but Favre decided to make the “exciting” throw to Corey Webster.

    Of course teams win and lose games and there’s no guarantee winning a wild card or divisional game will lead to a Super Bowl. But the job of a QB in a playoff game - at the very least - is to give his team a chance to win. In two of the above games Favre threw six and four INTs. That’s doing the opposite of giving his team a chance to win. In the other two games he trotted out onto the field in OT with decent field position – not backed up to his EZ. Against the Eagles he threw an historically bad INT; an incredibly stupid throw for a veteran QB best described as a “punt”. In the game against the Giants, after looking like he didn’t want to play in the cold, he ignores a wide open Levens who would have at least moved the chains. Go back and look at those two plays of you don’t believe me.

    Were some teams the Packers nemesis? Sure, there’s always more than one good team in the conference. But a QB who is careless with the ball in crucial playoff games also ‘causes major problems’. Had they won either of those playoffs games that went to OT I would have liked their chances to win a title, but only if the Packers QB was careful with the ball.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2015
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  12. Joe Nor Cal Packer

    Joe Nor Cal Packer Cheesehead

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    Thanks Captain. The guy is nuts. You could argue that if Sam Shields is making 9 plus mil Chancellor is worth more. But a contract, especially a fresh one, is a contract. His hold out also affects the team and the concept of team. In the case of the Seahawks, that's fine w me.
     
  13. PackerDNA

    PackerDNA Cheesehead

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    Holding out one season into a new contract? IMO, Chancellor doesn't have a leg to stand on.
     
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  14. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    Chancellor signed the contract before the 2013 regular season.
     
  15. Robert Mason

    Robert Mason Cheesehead

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    Packers had their "dynasty"........the 60's
     
  16. Packerlifer

    Packerlifer Cheesehead

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    Yes, but wouldn't it have been nice to have the Packers of the more recent present held as "the standard" in the NFL instead or along side of New England?

    The '60's were great but really only a 9 year run. Lambeau only ran a peak for about a decade from 1929-39. The Packers had a chance to be multiple NFL world champions in the '90's, the 2000's and the 2010's but only came up with Super Bowl wins twice.

    Get the repeat over Denver in XXXII,then perhaps a "threepeat" in '98, maybe 2002 and/or '03, 2007, 2011 and 2014 and the world would be talking about the Packers instead of Belichick and Brady.
     
  17. Robert Mason

    Robert Mason Cheesehead

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    Only a nine year run ? I think that's pretty good.


    Multiple championships are a lot harder to do now with free agency and salary cap.

    Would anyone agree....

    Packers.....Team of the 60's
    Steelers.....Team of the 70's
     
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  18. Croak

    Croak Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I think I saw a thing in ESPN that compared NE's winning percentage over ten years with the Packers' winning percentage over the 10 years of the sixties. The 60's Packers had just barely beat out the more recent Pats. We shouldn't underestimate how very good that decade was for Green Bay. Look whose name is on the big trophy.
     
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  19. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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  20. Half Empty

    Half Empty Cheesehead

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    It's the team that wins the last game of the season that counts.
     
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  21. Half Empty

    Half Empty Cheesehead

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    Granted, the mind is starting to go, but which 9 years were those? Five in the decade is still enough for a dynasty, but that's all that ended in a championship.
     
  22. Croak

    Croak Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    This is a piece of an interesting article entitled; "Top Ten Unbreakable Records of the NFL" (But I agree it would be nice to have a "dynasty" more recently.)

    "Vince Lombardi once said “winning is a habit.” Nobody knew more about wining than Lombardi himself, a true legend of football. One of the most successful coaches in NFL history, Lombardi was the coach of the Green Bay Packers from 1959 to 1967. Under him, the Packers won five National Football League championships in seven years, including three consecutive titles as well as winning the first two Super Bowls. His achievements got him the respect and admiration of his peers who honored his memory by renaming the NFL Super Bowl trophy ‘the Vince Lombardi Trophy’ in 1970.

    Vince Lombardi achieved something that no one has been able to match to this day. Don Shula has the record for most wins by a coach with 328, followed by George Halas and Tom Landry but neither could match Lombardi’s 90% post season winning percentage. He won 96 regular season games in his ten years in charge with a 72.8% winning rate, including his time with the Washington Redskins who he led to their first winning season in thirteen years.

    He also managed to record an 84.0% winning percentage in pre season games, but it was his 90% winning rate in the postseason that was a truly remarkable achievement. He only lost one postseason game out of the ten that his teams played and won five championships along the way. The match that he did lose was to the Philadelphia Eagles by only four points with the final score being 17-13. To this day, no other coach has even come close to breaking Lombardi’s record and it seems like no one ever will."
     
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  23. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    The nine years are 1959 to 1967, the years Lombardi was HC/GM of the Packers. He led the Packers to 6 title games (losing one) in an 8 year span ('60 - '67) and incredibly, he led the Packers to 5 titles in 7 years (1961 - 1967).
     
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  24. Half Empty

    Half Empty Cheesehead

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    The post got several clicks of agreement, so I guess it's back to semantics. I have a hard time including

    1959 - 7-5 record, no playoffs
    1960 - Lost the big one (as you noted)
    1963 - Lost both games to the Bears and watched them win it all
    1964 - 2 1/2 games behind the Colts, watched them in the playoffs

    Personal opinion - dynasty, yes. Nine years, no.
     
  25. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    Five titles in a nine-year tenure of a head coach. Yes, that's a dynasty.
     
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