2023 Playoffs discussion

Pokerbrat2000

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I'll say the same thing about this game as the previous one. If they continue to play like they have in the past couple of games and lose, I can live with it. It's the dropped passes or being out of alignment for the defense. Missed tackles that drive me crazy.

GOPACKGO
Well said. This season has been a very successful one, no matter what happens Saturday. Definitely a perfect example of "playing with house money." If this was pre-2022, every Packer fan would be expecting a win on Saturday and calling for heads to roll if they lost.

Hopefully, the 2023 season will be looked back upon as one that made the statement: "We are the Green Bay Packers, what's a rebuild?"
 

PikeBadger

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LOL....good point.

My god, just think if ALL those owners had real power! You think it gets messy in this forum once in awhile! Friends of mine received an ownership share for Christmas from one of their parents. Neither one of them can name more than 3 starters on the team.
Lol. But I can and that's what is important. I'm proud to be Jordan Love's boss.
 

tynimiller

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Well said. This season has been a very successful one, no matter what happens Saturday. Definitely a perfect example of "playing with house money." If this was pre-2022, every Packer fan would be expecting a win on Saturday and calling for heads to roll if they lost.

Hopefully, the 2023 season will be looked back upon as one that made the statement: "We are the Green Bay Packers, what's a rebuild?"

I think you can already look back and say that personally. In the last two years we let go of in some fashion two first ballot hall of famers IMO (Adams and Rodgers), removed all of our salary costs/starters at WR and TE...let our best safety walk, and overcome losing your pillar top elite all pro LT being non-existent essentially too...........AND ARE IN THE PLAYOFFS with a chance despite it all.
 

sschind

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Well said. This season has been a very successful one, no matter what happens Saturday. Definitely a perfect example of "playing with house money." If this was pre-e you win it it is2022, every Packer fan would be expecting a win on Saturday and calling for heads to roll if they lost.

Hopefully, the 2023 season will be looked back upon as one that made the statement: "We are the Green Bay Packers, what's a rebuild?"
House money, as it originally meant, does not exist. Once you win it it is your money. If you lose it you lost your money.

As it is applied to football doesn't really make sense to me either but I do get that it is intended to mean a team that has played better and gone farther than anyone expected so if they lose now its no big deal.

Thats might be a fine way to think if your team sucks and you get lucky but I don't think anyone thinks the Packers suck any more. Like BrokenArrow said, at some point that house money has to become Packers money and a loss becomes a big deal.

I'm sure there are a few more people giving the Packers a chance against the 49ers than there were last week against the cowboys but they are still going to be underdogs and I really don't think we will see any of the pregame hosts taking the Packers. Does that still mean they are playing with house money or have they turned the corner and started to play with their own money.
 
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Does that still mean they are playing with house money or have they turned the corner and started to play with their own money.
They turn the corner after this weekend when the seeds are lesser than the ones they went through. If we then are successful, the week following we become Cinderella if Houston doesn't steal our thunder.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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I think you can already look back and say that personally. In the last two years we let go of in some fashion two first ballot hall of famers IMO (Adams and Rodgers), removed all of our salary costs/starters at WR and TE...let our best safety walk, and overcome losing your pillar top elite all pro LT being non-existent essentially too...........AND ARE IN THE PLAYOFFS with a chance despite it all.

Most definitely, short term, you can say that. However, let's see what the next 2-3+ years brings. There is no doubt in my mind, that this offense is trending upward and with Love and all his young receiving weapons, the sky is the limit. That said, I think Love has proven himself, but there is always that "breath hold" of thinking that there is now a ton of tape on him and the offense, will opposing DC's find his and the offenses weaknesses?
 

Pokerbrat2000

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House money, as it originally meant, does not exist. Once you win it it is your money. If you lose it you lost your money.

As it is applied to football doesn't really make sense to me either but I do get that it is intended to mean a team that has played better and gone farther than anyone expected so if they lose now its no big deal.

Thats might be a fine way to think if your team sucks and you get lucky but I don't think anyone thinks the Packers suck any more. Like BrokenArrow said, at some point that house money has to become Packers money and a loss becomes a big deal.

I'm sure there are a few more people giving the Packers a chance against the 49ers than there were last week against the cowboys but they are still going to be underdogs and I really don't think we will see any of the pregame hosts taking the Packers. Does that still mean they are playing with house money or have they turned the corner and started to play with their own money.
"House Money" to me is this. I walk into a Casino with $500. I gamble for 3 hrs. and now have $2500. I put my original $500 away and vow it stays in my wallet for the rest of the night. For the next several hours, I am playing with $2000 of house money. If I double that, what a GREAT night. If I blow it all, what a fun night of entertainment I had for free.

Honestly, I think the Packers have already put away their original $500 and added another $1000 with the way they played in the last half of the season, the game against the Cowboys and the development of Love and his weapons. I want them to win against the 9'ers, but if they lose, this has still been a season beyond my expectations, a great one at that. Afterall, I was the idiot that predicted a 5 win season for the Packers.
 
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rmontro

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Honestly, I think the Packers have already put away their original $500 and added another $1000 with the way they played in the last half of the season, the game against the Cowboys and the development of Love and his weapons.
I don't know, but that Cowboys game was priceless. You don't get to watch many football games like that as a fan.

Does this group of wide receivers remind anyone else of the 2010-2011 Packers? We had so many they practically couldn't be defended. We have an embarrassment of riches at this point.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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I don't know, but that Cowboys game was priceless. You don't get to watch many football games like that as a fan.

Does this group of wide receivers remind anyone else of the 2010-2011 Packers? We had so many they practically couldn't be defended. We have an embarrassment of riches at this point.
Personally, I think the group in 2010 was better, or least more veteran and battle tested. That group included:

- Jordy, Driver, Jennings, Jones and Finley (TE)

Now that isn't to say that this current group won't be as good or even better, but not yet.
 

tynimiller

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I don't know, but that Cowboys game was priceless. You don't get to watch many football games like that as a fan.

Does this group of wide receivers remind anyone else of the 2010-2011 Packers? We had so many they practically couldn't be defended. We have an embarrassment of riches at this point.

STRONGLY yield to the 2010 packers WR room vs this one. Takes nothing away from the group now...but that 2010 group had:

One guy that had already put forth seven 1,000 yard seasons - including the 6 straight leading up to 2010.
Another guy with two straight 1,100 yard or better seasons going into the season in 2010.
Another who just had 440 yards and 5 TDs in 2009
Another who just 320 yards and 2 TDs
A TE that just put up 676 yards and 5 TDs in 2009
Another TE that in the three years leading to 2010 had put up 1,138 yards and 12 TDs

vs 2023 Packers who had:

Two receivers with any real experience who together their rookie year in 2022 put up 1,036 and 10TDs TOGETHER
 
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So, at what point are we no longer playing with "house money?" I know we really have nothing to lose or prove, but I think expectations went up a notch after stomping the Cowboys. And if we can win Saturday night, those expectations are going to skyrocket. You suddenly find yourself a win away from the Super Bowl and you don't get many of those chances so when they come, you have to take charge and get it done. How do you think MLF and the team will respond? Because they will suddenly find themselves under some pressure for the first time in these playoffs against either the Lions or Bucs.
I think the Bucs looked pretty good the other Day. Mayfield is another one that is having a career year, but it’s the Bucs D that keeps them in contention. They’ve been 5th, 8th, 13th, 7th (2023) in points allowed the last 4 seasons. The Day they had against the Packers week 15? was an anomaly. Both J’aire and Savage were hurt and our backups looked confused. Stokes was back in his first game in over a year, which it’s hard to expect anyone in their first game to carry a position group. Mayfield had a few throws that were near perfect in tight coverage and our Pass rush played C- grade. We also abandoned the Run (15 designed Runs) and when we do that? In the past, we’ve been just bad.

Detroit is solid, but right now I think we can score on them pretty good, in that 24-31 area. I’m not sure they can put up 30 on GB though, I think we’d be a 1-2 point road favorite.

The SF49ers imo are our only legit test to advance to a SB. Our Defense has been playing a little better as of late. While injuries always suck, Enagbare getting hurt will increase snaps for Van Ness some and he’s been coming on strong recently. Leaning on Gary, Smith for another 5-10% snaps and getting a solid 50% count from Van Ness means Cox Jr won’t have to tote the cart, but he’ll be fresh and hungry to make himself known. I’d be challenging him to be a wrecking ball he’s a very disruptive player when properly motivated. This is his chance to put some demons behind him and earn a more prominent role. Does he want to play himself out of the league or into a starter? This is his chance. He could be the James Starks type spark we need.

Also I think we might draw up some long shots for Watson on Saturday. It only takes 1 big catch to jump start us and quiet that home crowd. It’s our turn to take a shot at returning the favor ST paid us in postseason. We have nothing to lose and we’re coming in confident and demolishing Dallas. One thing noticed about Purdy is if left alone he just smooth tears you up. If he gets out of rhythm though (pressured early) he gets a little off kilter and his off timing causes mistakes. Purdy is all about momentum and we need to make life uncomfortable for him on the attack.
 
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I don't know, but that Cowboys game was priceless. You don't get to watch many football games like that as a fan.

Does this group of wide receivers remind anyone else of the 2010-2011 Packers? We had so many they practically couldn't be defended. We have an embarrassment of riches at this point.
I think this group is, has been and probably will be underestimated. While we don’t have a pair of 1,000+ WR’s. We have about 3-4 guys that any of which could get there performance wise at any moment.
Doubs, Watson, Wicks and Musgrave are a group that of you told me 1 had a 100+ yard day it wouldn’t surprise me at all. We have several more not too far behind that level.
So yes. It’s similarly the most exciting group for sure since that area 2010-2011 timeframe maybe not directly from an “individual”sense, but from a cumulative sense of targets? This is a closely matched grouping.

The other thing is now that Jones is healthy? Our RB and TE groups are possibly collectively better than 2010 and tell me if I’m wrong, but they can catch a ball also.

What’s neat about this argument is our variety and spread of O playmakers is collectively similar in production to 2010. Go look at the stats it’s surprisingly similar.

Pay attention:
Row 1 “Team Stats”
Row 3 “League Rank Offense”


Player
PFYdsPlyY/PTOFL1stDCmpAttYdsTDIntNY/A1stDAttYdsTDY/A1stDPenYds1stPy#DrSc%TO%StartTimePlaysYdsPts
Tot Yds & TOPassingRushingPenaltiesAverage Drive
Team Stats383587310525.6187338374581396832116.52114411905104.31011058562617439.79.2Own 29.82:546.2433.82.16
Opp. Stats350569610615.4181134034252335152176.21894932181154.4120959073117338.79.8Own 27.72:596.432.91.99
Lg Rank Offense1211691115123109221523992387579
Lg Rank Defense1017238235910311726281723823929292622

PlayerPFYdsPlyY/PTOFL1stDCmpAttYdsTDIntNY/A1stDAttYdsTDY/A1stDPenYds1stPy#DrSc%TO%StartTimePlaysYdsPts
Team Stats388573010005.7229312352541412431137.12044211606113.888786172018335.010.9Own 29.82:485.6231.31.97
Opp. Stats24049459695.1328270296527310716245.4163395183864.782987582518225.316.5Own 29.12:325.527.01.24
Lg Rank Offense109109131654932024182510231581688
Lg Rank Defense25624413542361832831612111592
 
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rmontro

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I think this group is, has been and probably will be underestimated. While we don’t have a pair of 1,000+ WR’s. We have about 3-4 guys that any of which could get there performance wise at any moment.
Doubs, Watson, Wicks and Musgrave are a group that of you told me 1 had a 100+ yard day it wouldn’t surprise me at all. We have several more not too far behind that level.
And that doesn't even include our top receivers. The thing I like is Love can throw to the open guy (whoever that is), and they are all very capable of catching it and turning it into a big play. That's what reminds of 2010-2011. They look like a speedy bunch too.
 

PackerDNA

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Pretty much everything I've seen on the sports TV shows is pretty much ignoring the Packers, and the Packers didn't win the Cowboys lost it. I wonder what the narrative will be if the Packers beat the 49ers Saturday?
 
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And that doesn't even include our top receivers. The thing I like is Love can throw to the open guy (whoever that is), and they are all very capable of catching it and turning it into a big play. That's what reminds of 2010-2011. They look like a speedy bunch too.
Yes. Also consider our previous common knowledge that our latter 1/2 season would be better than our first 1/2 season. We can see now that theory was not only pretty accurate, but we underestimated our growth imo. Growth is also a factor that doesn’t stop with Regular season. Add 4 games and you’ll absolutely get more benefit advantage. This infers our team has the largest propensity for growth of any Roster in the postseason. They are slight increments but look at the above charts between 2010 and 2023. Look at penalties and yards as an example. Factor 1 extra game added (17 games) and we are like 22 penalties and 220 yards worse now because of our inexperience. Although it’s gradually getting cleaned up if you notice.

Once again. I’ll submit we are quite possibly the youngest Offense in 1,700+ Offenses across the SB era. I’m not talking age. I’m talking about games played which to me is more important than the age everyone else seems a measuring tool. Who cares if they are 24.5 or 25.1 it’s immaterial.
I went back 23 years and stopped and no Offense Roster came within 50 games our roughly 275 cumulative games played across 23 seasons or 735 Rosters. We are #1 most inexperienced. I also further checked expansion teams because naturally, theyd be less games experienced right? Wrong again
lo and behold they were actually older across all OFFENSE Starters. Expansion teams signed a few tenured veterans in their 1st year per CBA and it drove them far over 2023 GB.

This team on Offense is an anomoly of historic proportions. Thus the growth will be historic by default. Now I was told it didn’t matter by several posters in here months ago, but it’s very apparent they didn’t make the connection.
 
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rmontro

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They are slight increments but look at the above charts between 2010 and 2023. Look at penalties and yards as an example. Factor 1 extra game added (17 games) and we are like 22 penalties and 220 yards worse now because of our inexperience. Although it’s gradually getting cleaned up if you notice..
Yes, although we were flagged 7 times to the Cowboys 6 (66 yards to 48). But considering it was an away game that's not so bad.
 

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Might make it harder for Purdy to make good throws and more likely to fumble with his little hands.
I would not call his hands little but in the rain, should be an edge for Love. I was high on an old QB Anthony Dilwig? And then came a rainy game and he could not throw the ball because of small hands. And that kind of ended it for him for some reason. I mean, it's not always raining. But you would need another QB for when it does. We might see how Purdy does when it's wet. I hope it's a problem for him.
 
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Yes, although we were flagged 7 times to the Cowboys 6 (66 yards to 48). But considering it was an away game that's not so bad.
I know it sounds crazy, but I think they were instructed purposely to stop Micah Parsons selectively on a play they think he’ll destroy. He’s one of THE if not THE most dynamic players leaguewide and he can change a game. Literally. So take the 2-3 Holding penalties vs 2-3 sacks.
 

milani

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Well said. This season has been a very successful one, no matter what happens Saturday. Definitely a perfect example of "playing with house money." If this was pre-2022, every Packer fan would be expecting a win on Saturday and calling for heads to roll if they lost.

Hopefully, the 2023 season will be looked back upon as one that made the statement: "We are the Green Bay Packers, what's a rebuild?"
And you cannot feel too under sold. Most teams can play well but will fall short to the Niners. Now including the meaningless finale the 9ers lost 3 times at home. We did win that 30-28 game a few years ago with Garapollo at QB. Mason was terrific. MLF called a solid offensive game. They could not cover Adams and they chipped Bosa. On paper all those Packer teams that faced the 9ers dating back to 2012 were supposed to be very good. This one is just a young bunch trying to play football. We wish them the best.
 

milani

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Yes, although we were flagged 7 times to the Cowboys 6 (66 yards to 48). But considering it was an away game that's not so bad.
The Kenny Clark face mask was unfortunate in that he stopped him and the Cowboys would have had to go for it on 4th down.
 
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The last 2 regular season games combined we went 5-37 in total penalty yardage. Beginning this season we were doing that per game. Maybe double that yardage per game
I’m ok with that occasional infraction if we’re playing aggressive and frustrating the crap out of our opponent in between. Dallas was getting ticked off you could tell.

Postseason they let them play. Steelers and Rams were constantly asking for holding calls And not getting help. The refs begin to let them play some.


My philosophy is if we’re not getting ANY flags? We’re probably not aggressive enough. My pet peeve is I’d better never see a hold on OUR ST return. Those cost 20+ yards each and are slappable Offenses. I’ll slap you once you take your helmet off. I’m not very big, but Try me I’m not afraid. Plus Rich will back me up :whistling:
 
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