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Moss a Packer?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Zero2Cool, Jul 9, 2006.

  1. 4packgirl

    4packgirl Cheesehead

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    sheesh - if you think favre is "bad", wait til he retires & THEN see what you're left with. has he lost some steps? - DUH - he's MY age for cripes sakes - i'm a stay at home mommy & even I'VE lost some steps!! LOL!

    anyway, back to the actual topic...moss becoming a packer? as zero said, it's hypothetical people - no need to get our undies in a bunch - my prediction?? mossyboy will NEVER wear the green & gold.
     
  2. Heatherthepackgirl

    Heatherthepackgirl Cheesehead

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    I say go for it,,,that way he can moon other teams instead of ours..lol
     
  3. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Favre has ALWAYS taken chances.....Last year he mentioned that they dont have the talent to over come those types of plays..

    No one mentioned this but he had all those yards even when the opps KNEW there was no running game, and all they had to reply on was the passing game..
     
  4. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    LoL Yup. I like how they say he racked up those yard because we were behind yet cleverly left out that every team knew that we had to throw the ball BECAUSE we were behind and had no running game. Weird how that was left out ;)
     
  5. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    Brett Favre had a very Kerry Collins like year last year. A lot of yards. 20 TD's. Lot's of mistakes and poor throws as well. Favre needs to get back to the basics and just manage the game.

    I think the right way to describe how he played last year is he tried too hard and thought he was all the Pack had.
     
  6. Anubis

    Anubis Cheesehead

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    I fully agree. Brett is too much of a competitor to roll over and let the other guys have it... even if he feels he has to do it all himself.

    GO PACK!!!

    Robert C. Hedley
     
  7. TomAllen

    TomAllen Cheesehead

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    Maybe it's because he WAS all the Pack had last year!

    Porky, I honestly don't understand your reasoning. A couple of posts back you agreed that the Pack had no 0-line, no running game, and NO RECEIVERS last year, yet you insistantly want to blame last years shortcomings on Brett Favre..and say that he's losing it, he's not as good as Tom Brady, etc..etc.

    I'm sorry, but your logic makes no sense. If you don't have a team around you, how are you going to make things work on the football field?

    It's still is a team sport you know, and as Pyledriver stated, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, and even Joe Montana wouldn't have done better than Favre did last year simply because he had nothing to work with.

    Favre has not "lost it" as you suggest, but rather the Packer team and coaching staff had, through injury and other reasons, and to single out Favre for the Packers poor record last year is just patently unfair and grossly innacurate, imo!

    I simply do not understand these Packer "fans" who want to do this. Does anybody else here understand this animus?
     
  8. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    TA, I think porky means to say that Brett should have changed his style of play, he obviously made bad decisions out there, he himself said he thought he had to win the games. While that may be true to an extent, Favre did try to do too much himself. He didn't have the best players, but Favre admitted he often threw the ball up and hoped his WR would come down with it. Our WRs weren't near the level of Javon, and he shouldn't have done that. He should have played more conservatively.
     
  9. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    Bingo, Favre needs to manage the game better. I've been saying that since I joined this board. Favre last year played far to reckless. When you have solid players around you, you can do that. When your playing with a average at best team (which Green Bay is) you have to learn to manage the clock better and take a more conservative approach.

    Vikings are the best example. Last season were the Vikings more talented than Green Bay? Not really but Brad Johnson managed the game much better than Brett Favre. Johnson played mistake free football most of the time and because of that the Vikings beat the teams they should beat and had a quality year. Last season Green Bay lost too teams that they should of beaten because of poor decision making Green Bay lost to the Lions, Browns, and Vikings.

    Favre's physical skills are still there. His mentality is not where it was. The old Favre never questioned himself. The current Favre has been doing a lot of questioning. That is the main reason why he's not the same Favre he was even 2 years ago. That is why I believe he can no longer make average WR's look great.

    Edit: Brady and Montana (in his prime) and Manning would of done much better than Favre did last year with the same team. It is a what if question but all 3 of those QB's can manage a game better than argueably anyone who has ever played the game before.

    Brett Favre 4 years ago would of done much better as well.
     
  10. TomAllen

    TomAllen Cheesehead

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    Sorry Porky, but I just don't buy it.

    When you've got 2 seconds or less to make a decision and release the ball to receivers who are running the wrong routes, not fighting for the ball, and were described as on more than one occasion as being "NFL Europe quality" players...and to top that off, you have absolutely no running game, predictable play calling, and everyone in the world including my grandmother knowing that the only viable option in the Packer offense was Donald Driver, and he was always double covered....

    then tell me how can ANYONE manage a game in that situation?
     
  11. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    Too many excuses. Favre was accountable for his actions as well. He admitted it himself. Favre made Bill Schroeder into a 1000 yard receiver. Robert Ferguson has far more talent than Schroeder ever did. That’s another example.

    The only game I really saw where Favre's INT's as "bad luck" or not part of his fault was the game against Cincinnati. Tip balls all over.

    WR's weren't running the wrong routes either. I'm sure it happens once in a while. It does every year but ultimately blaming the WR's for running the wrong routes is ridiculous. The defender had no problem fielding Favre's INT's like they would a punt.

    Also the interview where Favre questioned himself on whether he wants the ball in the final 2 minutes. 2 years ago Brett Favre wouldn't hesitate. He'd want the ball and he'd be thinking TD all the way. Saying I'm not sure tells me your mentally not prepared for the game as he used to be. Hopefully he'll get it back this year and I think he can. He just needs to manage the game better and McCarthy is said to be working on that aspect of Favre's game. I’m not blaming everything on Favre, I’m blaming Favre as well as the others that should be held accountable. Tom Brady is the best QB of this decade in my opinion, I have no doubt that he’d succeed with the Packers. New England was one of the most depleted teams a year ago and Brady held them together. They had one really good WR. They had no running game. They won the division. Manning I just think is better right now because he’s in his prime. If Favre was in his prime, I’d take Favre. Fact is Favre is NOT in his prime and people need to realize that. Even Favre considers himself an “oldâ€
     
  12. TomAllen

    TomAllen Cheesehead

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    I think he said that "he doesn't know if he wants the ball anymore", out of frustration and out of seeing where the team was headed under coach Sherman.

    Receivers were running the wrong routes because they had just been signed off the streets due to the Packer's WR injuries. Remember Taco Wallace?

    I wouldn't say Ferguson was better than Schroeder either. That is not a given!
     
  13. TomAllen

    TomAllen Cheesehead

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    Porky said...

    Receivers running the wrong routes last year is not ridiculous Porky.
    What is ridiculous however, is your quote that "McCarthy is helping Favre work on that aspect of his game".

    I think Favre, the future hall of fame QB of the GB Packers is perfectly fine and doesn't need McCarthy to school him on how to play the QB position in the NFL at this point in his career.

    Thanks for the laugh though. That was quite funny!
     
  14. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

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    Every player needs coaching, and even brett knows that... i dont think brett holds himself in as high regard as the rest of us do.
    its a little bit ridiculous that you think brett doesnt need coaching and that he is perfectly fine the way it is.

    The fact is the game is constantly changing. so by your statement Brett comes in his rookie year, gets some coaching and he can play the same way he started out back then... i mean come on... every single day, every single game, every single play... there is something you can learn and be coached on. Brett Favre is a helluva QB but he didnt get here alone.
     
  15. trippster

    trippster Cheesehead

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    I for one am happy having Brett Favre as my QB...then, now, and for the next 2-4 years.

    Many of his interceptions were from him just tossing it deep and hoping his receivers will fight and win the posession of the ball. Last year, the first in my memory, the receivers usually lost the battle for the ball. In Favre's "greatest game" (Irv's death vs. Oakland) He threw many, many ball up in the air...often into double and triple coverage. Yet our recievers won ALL the battles. Thus, it was successful. that is how many QB's play. Brady included.

    Favre still has the arm...no one in the media has even slightly hinted that he has lost arm strength. Now, are all you naysayers telling me that he has gotten dumber in his football smarts? Come on, give the HOF'er his due.

    Last year was the first year that his offensive line protected him poorly. And that dear football fanatics, is the most potent weapon any defense has to creating interceptions. Don't give the QB time to go through his read progression and he will inevitably force throws....everyone does it...Brady, Manning, etc. Give Favre a decent line protection as he has had in the past and he will shine as he has in the past.

    P.S. Keep in mind.....outside of the interceptions, he had a great year.
     
  16. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    I know not each of the 29 interceptions or each of the 5 fumbles he lost were soley his fault, but when you have 34 turnovers in a season, regardless of who you are or how far you are into your career, you can take on some coaching and if you don't then you're not a true competitor.

    Brett knows he is not perfect and he knows he can use some coaching. Every player does. It's part of the game.
     
  17. trippster

    trippster Cheesehead

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    34 turnovers in a game? wow...that is a bad game... :wink:
     
  18. TomAllen

    TomAllen Cheesehead

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    My point is packnic, porky, zero, et. al. is that don't you think that Favre knows how to pretty much play the game at this point in his career?

    And doesn't it seem a little absurd for people to think that he's lost his ability and his mind for the game--while a rookie coach who hasn't even been associated with a winning organization yet is going to "teach" Brett Favre how to play the game like he's a little kid running around in his saggy, peewee uniform.

    See tripsters post above. He explains it perfectly. It all starts with the o-line, then the receivers, then the running game.

    What TT needed to do was put talented WR's around Favre and let him pick apart the opposing defenses instead of trying to rebuild the whole team all at once, and have Favre in the same situation as last year--on an island with no supporting cast around him.
     
  19. trippster

    trippster Cheesehead

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    Actually Tom, McCarthy was associated with a winning organization.....the packers.....when he was ..um..er...uh...Brett's QB coach.

    I agree with how TT is rebuilding. It would be nice to get all the offensive weapons right away but then we wouldn't have much of a D. And believe me, our D was not as good as their numbers showed last year. Our opponents jumped out to big leads and then sat on the ball. That is why our Pass D was #1. no one was passing. If the D wa as good as some here suggest, then Brett would not have had to continually come from 2,3, TD's down (which is another HUGE factor in his INT's)

    Give any QB time in the pocket and he will pick you apart (except maybe Orten and Harrington...)
     
  20. JbShell

    JbShell Cheesehead

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    Funny how this topic is hid under the guize of a randy moss coming to GB thread. I wont judge Farve 2006 on Favre 2005
     
  21. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    Favre is coming off a year in which he threw his 29 INT's (Career high) and a 70 passer rating (Career Low) and you don't think Favre needs coaching? Every player needs coaching. John Elway needed coaching, Dan Marino, Joe Montana all into the later part of their careers. Favre doesn't need to change his fundamentals. If you would of read my posts you would see that I stated McCarthy is helping Favre in the aspect of managing the game. Favre does need work in that area. A lot of QB's when they get older do. John Elway went from being a guy who can win and take over a game on his own to a much better game manager and won 2 Super Bowl's. I'm not saying GB is winning a Super Bowl anytime soon but if Favre manages the game better than what he did a year ago, they'll for sure win more football games and in the NFC North 9 wins might enough.

    Your making excuses for Favre because you can't accept the fact that he's not as good as he was. It's really common sense. 7 years ago Favre was 30 years old and that's how old Peyton Manning is right now. You don't think his skills diminished a little bit? If not then the best term to describe that is ignorance or being bias.

    I'm not trying to bash Favre, I'm just stating the facts about how he's not mentally in the game like he used too be. It's no secret. Once you question yourself on whether he has the desire to want the ball in his hand is when you have to question someone's desire. It took him 3 days before the Draft to make a decision. While I thought the media blew that way out of proportion it's still too long for one player to be thinking about playing or not. I question Favre’s mental aspect before his physical. Physically he’s still a top 4-7 QB but football is just as much mental as it is physical.

    I'd like too come back to this again

    Not only is this a ridiculous statement. Saying a player doesn't need coaching but it also makes it seem as if Favre is ignorant and has a serious ego. Favre certainly doesn't have an ego in which he thinks he needs no coaching. He knows he can get much better from last year and that's why he's coming to mini camps and learning McCarthy's version of the West Coast and listening to what McCarthy wants him to do and etc..
     
  22. PackerSacker54

    PackerSacker54 Cheesehead

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    After all of the hatred for him at Lambeau, would you really embrace Moss? I mean after all, he could wipe his a$$ on the goalpost in eight games a year instead of just one. :D
     
  23. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    It wasn't the act that moss did that upset most, it was the act that proved how soft the Packers team was that upsets most.
     
  24. Anubis

    Anubis Cheesehead

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    Porky,

    I respect your opinion, but TomAllen summed it up exactly as I saw it. Before you start blaming Favre and our (allegedly) sub-par defense, let's have a look at the outcomes of 2006.

    5 games were lost by 3 points or less.
    (Vs. Browns, Bucs, Panthers, and Queens twice)

    8 games were lost by 7 points or less.
    (Vs. The above, plus Bengals, Eagales and Bears)

    Now you can blame Favre for these losses, or try to debate that our D was no where near as good as our numbers suggest (I am still not sure how that works), but now lets see who we had for a supporting cast for Favre:

    Walker, Green, Davenport, Franks, and Murphy were out with various injuries (mostly season-ending).

    Now, let's see if I am understanding this argument correctly:

    Our D is overrated because our opponents were sitting on 3 point leads and trying to run out the clock in 5 of our losses?

    Favre is completely to blame for all of his 29 INT, despite having only one proven WR, no running game and a handful of no-name backups that were signed off the street who were unfamiliar with both GB's complicated offense and NFL-level play?

    I think the person who was having the most trouble managing the game was the overrated ex-HC, who rather than going into a hurry-up offense when you are 10 points behind with less than 6 minutes left in the 4th quarter, would wander around the sidelines with a bewildered look on his face looking like a deer caught in headlights, all the while hoping his future HOF QB would (once again) perform a miracle in the last seconds to pull his *** out of the fire and come away with a win.

    I am not going to say that Favre was not responsible for some of the INTs he threw last season, but saying he is washed up, over the hill or "mentally unprepared" because of last season's debaucle is ridiculous. You mad the comment that, in your opinion, Tom Brady or Peyton Manning would have been able to do better in GB last year. Assuming that is the case, that still means that Favre is no worse than the other 29 QB that play in this league, and that hardly constitutes him being lablelled a "has been".

    He still managed to finish in 3rd place overall in passing, throwing for 3881 yards with only one proven receiver who was constantly under double coverage. I'd like to see 29 of the 32 QBs we have in the league accomplish that with what he had to work with.

    GO PACK!!!

    Robert C. Hedley
     
  25. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    haha i'm a retard
     

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